Main EU leaders call for United States of Europe..

Originally posted by Dermo
EU wide finance ministers are meeting today to hit back at the hedge fund speculators. - Like George Soros - by ensuring they are transparent in their actions and business plans.. This is a pretty big step and will not be liked by Britain but is essential in stopping attacks on the EURO while all the new systems are implemented..

As far as I know, the outcome of this may be down to a majority vote so the British say will be completely overstepped..

European Union finance ministers are meeting in Brussels on Tuesday in an effort to agree on rules governing the regulation of hedge funds. And, in a break from the 27-member bloc's consensus-driven past, the ministers will likely do so over the objections of Great Britain.

www.spiegel.de...

The same article also says..

EU finance ministers on Tuesday were also considering a tax on financial transactions within Europe as a way to ensure the financial industry's involvement in efforts to overcome the crisis.

Which would be a great idea IMO..

a great idea?..more taxes..an international tax?

this wont be for the banks...they will simply pass this on to us...

Originally posted by alienesque
a great idea?..more taxes..an international tax?

this wont be for the banks...they will simply pass this on to us...

Please explain to me how a tax of international traders, financial institutions and financial investors who make their money through speculation would be passed onto us..


***Edit to add***

And how this is not better than using money directly from our Taxes to pay back all the bailout funds? Or for use as pan EU infrastructure or otherwise investments?

[edit on 18/5/10 by Dermo]

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by alienesque
a great idea?..more taxes..an international tax?

this wont be for the banks...they will simply pass this on to us...

Please explain to me how a tax of international traders, financial institutions and financial investors who make their money through speculation would be passed onto us..


***Edit to add***

And how this is not better than using money directly from our Taxes to pay back all the bailout funds? Or for use as pan EU infrastructure or otherwise investments?

[edit on 18/5/10 by Dermo]

sorry..but you really should stop believing what these people are saying and watch what they do.....we will end up paying for this...id bet 12 trillion dollars on it....they even mentioned that in my german paper this morning and just now on tv that the costs would probably be passed onto the consumer..

taxes come from people..who else pays them?...

by the way...its illegal for germany to get involved in any financial control with the EU...but they are doing it anyway....


'And how this is not better than using money directly from our Taxes to pay back all the bailout funds? Or for use as pan EU infrastructure or otherwise investment'

i dont get what you mean...they have taken this money already....they have taken tax money to bail out the banks.......now they are taking more...

our governments'dont know' where most of the tax money goes..im sure they can find another hole to put this in....


[edit on 18-5-2010 by alienesque]

reply to post by alienesque




At this stage, I don't think we're ever going to agree on anything in this topic lol..

Fair play though.. You stick by your guns..

reply to post by Dermo


You know how many wars this will start just over sporting events ??? not to mention pure hatred from some bordering countries that has gone back for centuries and now they will be forcefully mixed? well not mixed but crossed ....

This can't be good.....

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
You know how many wars this will start just over sporting events ??? not to mention pure hatred from some bordering countries that has gone back for centuries and now they will be forcefully mixed? well not mixed but crossed ....

This can't be good.....

Well in fairness.. Thats the reason for the EU in the first place..

And its worked overall, we don't want to kill each other over history anymore..

And also, I'd assume the respective countries would keep their respective sports teams lol.. Thats the least we would have to worry about

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by alienesque

 

At this stage, I don't think we're ever going to agree on anything in this topic lol..

Fair play though.. You stick by your guns..

why shouldnt i..im right

any nation..as the EU now is..that needs to spy on its citizens..is corrupt...and has to resort to lies to take over..is not something anyone should want..if it starts like this..how is it going to carry on?...

there is a coup happening all over europe and hardly anyone has noticed..

Originally posted by alienesque
why shouldnt i..im right

any nation..as the EU now is..that needs to spy on its citizens..is corrupt...and has to resort to lies to take over..is not something anyone should want..if it starts like this..how is it going to carry on?...

there is a coup happening all over europe and hardly anyone has noticed..

Oh dear God!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) You're not right.. Its your opinion..

2) Spying on us? How exactly? And its as if our own governments don't do that already? Also, didn't the EU court tell Britain recently that it has to lay off the surveillance of its citizens? How evil of them..

3) A coup? The EU's mandate from the beginning was European integration.. And now that the continent is being integrated, its something new, unexpected and completely evil?

Gimme a break.. As I said, you stick to your guns.. But IMO, you are too paranoid and bias to have a clue what you're on about.. Wipe out 85% of the worlds population? Thats where you lost any credibility with me my friend..

As I have said countless times before, while I support European unity, Im not a massive fan of the EU but I look at it from a realistic perspective and thats where I get my opinions..

Whereas you are just making up nonsense in your head and trying to sell it as fact.. And fact is, its impossible to take you seriously..

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by alienesque
why shouldnt i..im right

any nation..as the EU now is..that needs to spy on its citizens..is corrupt...and has to resort to lies to take over..is not something anyone should want..if it starts like this..how is it going to carry on?...

there is a coup happening all over europe and hardly anyone has noticed..

Oh dear God!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) You're not right.. Its your opinion..

2) Spying on us? How exactly? And its as if our own governments don't do that already? Also, didn't the EU court tell Britain recently that it has to lay off the surveillance of its citizens? How evil of them..

3) A coup? The EU's mandate from the beginning was European integration.. And now that the continent is being integrated, its something new, unexpected and completely evil?

Gimme a break.. As I said, you stick to your guns.. But IMO, you are too paranoid and bias to have a clue what you're on about.. Wipe out 85% of the worlds population? Thats where you lost any credibility with me my friend..

As I have said countless times before, while I support European unity, Im not a massive fan of the EU but I look at it from a realistic perspective and thats where I get my opinions..

Whereas you are just making up nonsense in your head and trying to sell it as fact.. And fact is, its impossible to take you seriously..

dermo..if you would have asked the general public over and over again during the last 60 years what this thing..this idea...is....they would not have said that its common knowledge that we are moving towards a USE and that thats ok.....thats simply wrong...and the sad thing is you know it...

it not paranoid to fear an organization with so much power..especially when they are corrupt....its normal...

look...you really have to stop believing what these people say and watch what they do...i dont care if they told the UK to lay off with the surveillance.....cant you see thats just making good weather?...when they have so many powers why cant they force the UK to take them down?...do you think they ever will?

watch what these people do..not what they say...

by the way..my saying im right..then laughing..was a joke....hence the laughing smily...sorry you misunderstood..

[edit on 19-5-2010 by alienesque]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by alienesque]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by alienesque]

reply to post by alienesque


Ok, my bad on the smiley face, apologies for being harsh..

I have gone from being an EU supporter to being a massive EU sceptic.. Even to the point of campaigning against the EU and Lisbon treaty in Ireland.. To someone who realizes the world isn't perfect no matter what and has taken an interest at looking at the whole thing objectively and as non bias as possible... And because of that, I support what they are doing to a large extent.. I am against a substantial part also..

But the greater good outweighs the bad.. Thats what you are missing..

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by alienesque

 

Ok, my bad on the smiley face, apologies for being harsh..

I have gone from being an EU supporter to being a massive EU sceptic.. Even to the point of campaigning against the EU and Lisbon treaty in Ireland.. To someone who realizes the world isn't perfect no matter what and has taken an interest at looking at the whole thing objectively and as non bias as possible... And because of that, I support what they are doing to a large extent.. I am against a substantial part also..

But the greater good outweighs the bad.. Thats what you are missing..

i hope your right....because its happening no matter what i say...

funny though..ive gone totally the other way...from a pro EU person to being totally against THIS EU..note..not A EU in general...if people want it..and it fair..fine...

reply to post by Dermo


Hi Dermo,

Here is an article that reference the points I was trying to convey earlier in the thread about consolidating EU powers and the potential of the poorer performing/awkward nations being squeezed out of the EU (or if you prefer being giving a door to leave)

www.citywire.co.uk...

Merkel will present a nine point plan to a European Union working group next week which includes plans to withhold funds and temporarily withdraw voting rights from countries that ignore union rules on debt levels.

The plans also include a proposed new rule to allow bankrupt countries to exit the union.

That would allow a consolidation of the EU should the Greek bailouts fail.. The EU per se is not under threat, the nations at the peripheries (like Greece) are.

and as I was mentioning the similarity I was expecting to see between UK fiscal changes and that of Europe... It seem a similar type of budget review (as that just implemented in the UK) will be passed onto an independent body.. (since Osborne was allowed to release news of this change first, we can't be following Europe's lead right )

There are also plans to allow for national budgets to be independently reviewed, possibly by the European Central Bank, German newspaper Handelsblatt said.

The UK is not being left out of Eurozone changes, nor would I suspect are any other non Eurozone nations, but rather following the same path under a slightly different guise.

Tho we'll have to wait to hear about the plan in detail next week...

I have spent quite a while implementing EU directives covering an Area from Sweden to Italy and across to Ireland..

The only nation that does not generally follow the same path/rules as the rest of the EU is France (I am generalising from my own experience of working in/with French authorities)... Regardless of what people want to hear the UK is generally in step with Germany and the rest of the EU.

So whatever happens in the next few weeks regarding the creation of a single united European nation.. the UK will still be instep..

[edit on 19/5/10 by thoughtsfull]

reply to post by thoughtsfull


hello

its going to be interesting to see how this supposedly democratic and law abiding EU will get around the german constitution...

if they dont care about constitutions..how can they be seen to be a decent body?

Originally posted by alienesque
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

hello

its going to be interesting to see how this supposedly democratic and law abiding EU will get around the german constitution...

if they dont care about constitutions..how can they be seen to be a decent body?

Hi

I'm sure they will find a way.. *IF* the EU adopts a similar independent budget review as the UK.. which came first? chicken and egg.. but if it is the same, then there has been a degree of collusion with the same aim sold in different nations in different ways.

How many Britons will realised the same deal is being worked EU wide.. the same can be said about Germany.. what is being sold will be manipulated to seem as tho it breaks no constitutional rules in Germany, and is the right approach.

All in all IMHO the EU are playing a similar find the lady game as the banksters...


[edit on 19/5/10 by thoughtsfull]

Originally posted by alienesque
its going to be interesting to see how this supposedly democratic and law abiding EU will get around the german constitution...

if they dont care about constitutions..how can they be seen to be a decent body?

You have said this a half dozen times..

The EU doesn't have to get past it.. the German government have to get past it..

How come you can't see that?

A constitution is the legal description of a state.. How is the EU stepping all over it when Germany itself is at the forefront of calling for these changes

And in all bloody fairness.. Since joining the EU, its pretty obvious that state constitutions mean very little here.. Its only Yanks that harp on about their constitution as if it is an amazing thing..

Things are created to evolve.. Not to remain rigid and backwards..

The EU has not been good for everyone, if the Euro was so good then every country would want it, i cant see any other country now ever wanting to join it and its been made pretty impossible for a state to pull out of it.

Greek debt is all in euro's, so it cannot return back to its soverign currency, because how would they work out how much they owed to the rest of europe?

Spain and portugal are on the brink of collapse, closely followed by Ireland, if the UK was in the Euro we would be in a bigger mess.

It is quite telling that the country to be hit the least by the recession was Norway, a country that voted no to EU membership.

Originally posted by la2
It is quite telling that the country to be hit the least by the recession was Norway, a country that voted no to EU membership.

You mean that massive country with the tiny population, unlimited clean energy through geothermal, huge natural resources and a massive coastline to support its dominant fishing industry?

And not being in the EU is the reason for it not being in recession?

Absolute nonsense Im afraid.. Basic economics smashes that theory..

While I agree that the EU has been better for some than others, your arguments don't really prove it..

I mean in all fairness.. The fact that Spain, Portugal and Ireland are screwed in the biggest global collapse ever doesn't mean anything about the EURO..

[edit on 19/5/10 by Dermo]

Europe can do what it wants, good luck.

Britain will never be a party to it.

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by alienesque
its going to be interesting to see how this supposedly democratic and law abiding EU will get around the german constitution...

if they dont care about constitutions..how can they be seen to be a decent body?

You have said this a half dozen times..

The EU doesn't have to get past it.. the German government have to get past it..

How come you can't see that?

A constitution is the legal description of a state.. How is the EU stepping all over it when Germany itself is at the forefront of calling for these changes

And in all bloody fairness.. Since joining the EU, its pretty obvious that state constitutions mean very little here.. Its only Yanks that harp on about their constitution as if it is an amazing thing..

Things are created to evolve.. Not to remain rigid and backwards..

seems she has started the advertising:

www.google.com...

terrorism..that is terrorism..who created the current situation...the governments of europe...and now they are using this situation to create the EU..

a constitution means everything..it protects a people from such things..from corruption..and from slavery...the fact that you think they are useless frankly explains everything you have been saying....

and of course the EU is trying to bypass the german constitution..otherwise they wouldnt be saying the want this power as they know its illegal..they are pressuring the people of germany to scrap their constitution..its a disgrace..



[edit on 19-5-2010 by alienesque]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by alienesque]

Originally posted by Freeborn
Europe can do what it wants, good luck.

Britain will never be a party to it.

As much as I get called a little Englander... and as much as I dislike saying it, having worked across the EU delivering EU legislation to member states, we are in step with Germany and the Rest of the EU..

We get legislation/rules that are wrapped up to seem as tho they are ours when they are EU wide (EU wide does not include the awkward French)

E.g. George Osborne passed some Fiscal powers to an independent commission along the same lines as is now being proposed for those in the Euro.. We may label it slightly differently and wrap it up in a bit of nationalism, but we are still in step with the rest of Europe.

And when I moan about the difficulty of implementing EU legislation in France I really should be able to say the same about the UK yet can't. Which is rather telling is it not.