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Shootout at the O.K. Corral? Mean streets of Chicago

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posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:01 AM
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124 people have been killed so far this year. One per day. About the number of Americans killed during the same period in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.


From ABC 7's I-Team reporter, Chuck Goudie's, report, "One Night in Chicago."



Okay, so I found this video on You Tube, because I don't watch the nightly news very often. What brings this to forefront for me, is a conversation I had with my brother last weekend. We were talking about his job as Chicago Police Officer, and the recent requests made by politicians about National Guard support.

2 Chicago state reps: Bring in the National Guard



Chicago Democrats John Fritchey and LaShawn Ford said they want Quinn, Mayor Richard Daley and Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis to allow guardsmen to patrol streets and help quell violence. Weis said he did not support the idea because the military and police operate under different rules.

www.chicagobreakingnews.com...

I asked why they are not getting the funding from the stimulus to hire new officers, and what not? He could not definitely answer why or where the funding and support is? However, he did say one thing that stuck with me about the perilous situation facing residents and the Chicago Police Department. He said, "One police officer is doing the assigned duties of 10."

After hearing the grim assertion from my brother, and seeing this report, it seems Chicago is descending into chaos? Furthermore, downtown, where my brother lives seemed like nothing short of Baghdad's Green Zone. Most of the shootings and murders are taking place in the outlying neighborhoods. Downtown seemed like business as usual. What is eating away at me right now is, what will it take to get something done to resolve a situation with an understaffed police force tasked with culling a city riddled with drugs, murders, and gang activity? Perhaps, deaths of some police officers, maybe a politician here or there, or some murders downtown? Where is the money that is so graciously being doled out by the tax payers? Where are the Feds on this matter? Why have the state police not been given the green light from Governor, Pat Quinn, to augment the daily activities of the police? Remember this is our President's hometown, and yet nothing out of the White House about this nightmare? Just so many questions.

Oh wait, but we have our benevolent politicians requesting support from the National Guard as an alternative? When it is their jobs to ensure law enforcement is properly funded, and supported. Why are we being force fed the idea of armed troops patrolling the streets from our elected officials? That is another thing I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around. Then, we have Mayor, Richard Daley, out and about doing press conferences and photo ops asking law abiding citizens to surrender their firearms, when his city is being hit with a crime wave that rivals armed conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. Where is the logic in that? When even in the report above, the reporter corrects Mayor Daley when he claims the violence is tied to assault rifles, and says according to 2008 police statistics, most of the shootings are result of handguns.

Moreover, Daley is spinning the facts as he always does. This is the same guy that was wining and dining the international community for the Olympics in his city. Furthermore, the same guy who was very close to being indicted in the notorious Hired Truck Scandal of 2004.

Hired Truck Program



The Sun-Times investigation began when a reporter on his way to work passed by an abandoned gas station, the home of a single red truck that bore a sign saying it was leased to the city of Chicago's Hired Truck Program. The reporter eventually staked out a city water crew for five days, watching four Hired Trucks sit idly during each eight-hour shift. Each truck cost taxpayers $50.17 an hour.

The scandal eventually sparked a Federal investigation into hiring practices at Chicago City Hall, with Robert Sorich, Mayor Daley's former patronage chief, facing mail fraud charges for allegedly rigging city hiring to favor people with political connections. On July 5, 2006, Sorich, 43, was convicted on two counts of mail fraud for rigging city jobs and promotions.

en.wikipedia.org...

That is just one instance of the corruption, but the city government is riddled with it. Moreover, what gets me is why it is allowed to go on with seemingly no response from the Justice Department? Yes, they went after former governors, and there is a corruption case here and there; but nothing of any significance to dismember it. Residents of the city and law enforcement are being unduly put in harms way as they pay taxes to ensure that does not happen. To put things into perspective, Chicago happens to be one of the most taxed cities in the country.



The city of Chicago currently has the highest total sales tax of all major U.S. cities, which was a major reference point as the rate was voted down to 9.75% as of July 1, 2010.[58] It is also one of the most complex. 10.25% is levied on all non-perishable goods purchased, while 2% is levied on qualifying food, drugs, medicines and medical appliances.[58]

The Illinois Department of Revenue collects a 3% Chicago Soft Drink Tax and a 1% Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority (MPEA) "Food and Beverage Tax", on prepared food and beverage purchases in the downtown area (These "downtown" boundaries are: Surf Street on the north, Ashland Avenue on the west, Stevenson Expressway (I-55) on the south, & Lake Michigan on the east. Furthermore, O'Hare and Midway airports also fall under the 1% MPEA tax district).[59] In addition, the Chicago Department of Revenue collects additional sales taxes on items such as fountain drinks, bottled water, liquor, and cigarettes.

en.wikipedia.org...

Those taxes are phenomenal, and yet they can't put any of that money aside to hire cops? They say corruption is a hidden tax, and maybe that is where some of that money is going? I live about an hour out of the city, and thank goodness I am not a resident. That town is in shambles, and with the same thugs getting elected with each election cycle. Maybe there is too much fluoride in the drinking water or something? I digress, but I thought this report was quite interesting, and truly telling about the disastrous by-products of corruption. Money that should be going to public safety seems to be ending up elsewhere, and people are getting killed. Something has got to be done! That does not mean appointing the national guard to police the streets, because the police can handle the crime if they are given proper funding and support. We must remember these are common criminals and gang bangers who are having a feeding frenzy as result of a undermanned and underfunded police department. An increase in the ranks and a more robust police presence on the trouble streets should alleviate the problem. If nothing is done, these shootings and murders are going to spread into the downtown area, and that will get significant national and international attention. The reason is, this President Barack Obama's home town.





[edit on 16-5-2010 by Jakes51]




posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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This reminds me of New Orleans, especially! A cop here is doing the duties of 10-15 cops. Many neighborhoods and people do not trust the police and these are not bad neighborhoods either. The police have been corrupt for a long time here. However, with out new Mayor and the new police chief I am sure things are bound to change very soon. Hopefully, the same happens up there!

And yes sometimes the National Guard needs to be brought in to help out the police force that is greatly outnumbered by gangs and hostile environments. I remember we brought them in on a few occasions for Mardi Gras and the Super Bowl, because it was going to be crazy. However, they were not needed at all. But there presence ensured that in case something happened there would be a necessity. What bothered me was the crime percentage of solved cases dropped a RIDICULOUS numbered. Of course crime can easily be over come by ensuring good insurance for cops, a good retirement and more pay. Increase the number of cops and if that cannot be done, put National Guard out walking beats until the cops have enough recruits.

GREAT THREAD!!

Starred and Flagged.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by TheMythLives
This reminds me of New Orleans, especially! A cop here is doing the duties of 10-15 cops. Many neighborhoods and people do not trust the police and these are not bad neighborhoods either. The police have been corrupt for a long time here. However, with out new Mayor and the new police chief I am sure things are bound to change very soon. Hopefully, the same happens up there!


Yeah, I am well aware o the corruption in New Orleans by local government and police force. I was not aware of police manpower shortages in New Orleans? Perhaps, it is related to the flight that took place after Katrina, and the significant toll it has had on the tax base?

Chicago is in need of a new mayor. Richard Daley ought to be paraded in a jump-suit. However, he is one clever guy, because he has been able to shield himself from all those investigations by putting his pawns in place to take the fall for him. One example, is when the Feds sent Robert Sorich to prison for the "Hired Truck Scandal." They got real close to Daley, but once again he was able to slither away from that one. Hopefully it works out in New Orleans with the new Mayor and Police Chief.



And yes sometimes the National Guard needs to be brought in to help out the police force that is greatly outnumbered by gangs and hostile environments. I remember we brought them in on a few occasions for Mardi Gras and the Super Bowl, because it was going to be crazy. However, they were not needed at all. But there presence ensured that in case something happened there would be a necessity. What bothered me was the crime percentage of solved cases dropped a RIDICULOUS numbered. Of course crime can easily be over come by ensuring good insurance for cops, a good retirement and more pay. Increase the number of cops and if that cannot be done, put National Guard out walking beats until the cops have enough recruits.

GREAT THREAD!!

Starred and Flagged.


Yes, in certain instances the National Guard is needed. However, I think it is the politicians who are shirking their responsibilities by seeking that alternative. They want to white wash the fact that tax dollars have been wasted fattening their pockets, as public safety is put on the back burner. I truly believe that about the Chicago Machine. Now, in the case of the New Orleans, I can see the use of National Guard troops on a case by case scenario. You guys endured a storm of epic proportions, and chances are things are still in the rebuilding stages.

However, I think Chicago is different and the police can handle the job as long as they are getting the money and support they need. Still, city hall needs to be swept from top to bottom with one big broom, because it stinks. That is the source of the problems. Until they can resolve the corruption problems, the city may have no choice but to seek the services of the National Guard. Usually the State Police or the FBI moves in to support the police, at least from what I have seen in the past. Thanks for the reply, and keep us in the loop about what is going on in the "Big Easy."



[edit on 16-5-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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i just moved back to the chicago burbs from chicago, i actually lived in blagojevichs neighborhood. there were gangs there too! people are getting killed left and right, just last week there was a murder/suicide in the middle of downtown chicago. the majority of the murders being chicago public high school students! the cops do need help, like the OP mentioned they are over worked and over stressed, they are at war. there are a lot of bad apple cops in chicago, they are starting to get as notorious as the lapd. if they had some help maybe they wouldnt be as prone to that sort of thing.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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Here is the problem my friend Jakes51, Police can not solve social problems and this is a social problem.

Police can typically only respond to a problem, once it manifests itself into a incident where a crime has occurred or is occurring, and that is pretty much the way it should be.

Who can solve this problem? Corporate America! The captains of industry who have for decades been looking to squeeze a few pennies more out in profit by exporting jobs and economic opportunities out of the country, or handing the jobs to automated machines and robots, that are likewise most often manufactured abroad.

The reality is there are just not enough jobs, and real opportunities to sustain the population, and the hardest to employ segment of society, are young people, ages 16-25 who lack real world work experience, and must vie for what are often poor paying jobs with people two and three times their ages, who are much better qualified to work those positions.

When times are relatively good, traditionally those who can’t find work, or fit into the system at the entry level will turn to the black market for employment.

When times are bad though, those rackets turn much more competitive just as legitimate enterprises do. Fewer black market customers, with fewer dollars to spend, are then viciously fought over in turf wars, by organized criminal elements looking to establish and maintain a portion of an ever decreasing market and revenue stream.

They become all the more willing to use violence to gain or maintain a piece of the pie.

The problem is Jakes51, the American Pie is growing smaller and smaller, at a steady and alarming pace, while the people who by necessity of survival that need a slice of that pie to sustain themselves is growing larger and larger.

This isn’t a police problem, this is a societal problem, this is a management problem, and the kind of problem that does not cease being a problem simply by hiring a few more police officers or turning entire urban zones into armed police encampments.

Desperate times breed desperate actions and the clichés often employed where an honest man can always find an honest day’s work are belied by the actual unemployment numbers.

Job growth incentives, educational programs, community outreach programs and creative proactive solutions are required to correct, minimize and eventually eliminate these problems.

Nothing is going to completely eliminate the problem, as long as the government tries to regulate morality by regulating vices, and creating a vacuum where black market enterprises are the only organizations poised to deliver such goods and services.

However the truth is that the average street corner drug dealer will earn on average 350.00 per week, in a very risky and often deadly trade.

This is about 100.00 dollars more than you would earn working 40 hours a week at an entry level job at Wal-Mart or a fast food outlet.

So if such people could make 500.00 a week legitimately through readily available employment opportunities, many of them would forsake the trade.

It really is simple math, and the artificial scarcity paradigm where the government and corporations deliberately provide less work, and less pie, than the numbers of people, is designed to create this kind of chaos, which is presented in such a way that you turn to the government in the same way you would turn to the mafia, for protection, instead of solutions, to eliminate the problem.

Cops won’t eliminate the problem, it just grows the government and gives it more control, and along with that, the ability to provide less and less in the way of work and pie.

Citizens shouldn’t be reacting like the government reacts or the police react, they should be responding with protests for demands for jobs, education, and genuine economic opportunities and a legitimate chance for a quality life that makes a life of crime less attractive in comparison.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut
i just moved back to the chicago burbs from chicago, i actually lived in blagojevichs neighborhood. there were gangs there too! people are getting killed left and right, just last week there was a murder/suicide in the middle of downtown chicago. the majority of the murders being chicago public high school students! the cops do need help, like the OP mentioned they are over worked and over stressed, they are at war. there are a lot of bad apple cops in chicago, they are starting to get as notorious as the lapd. if they had some help maybe they wouldnt be as prone to that sort of thing.


Downtown is like the Green Zone, and largely unaffected from the violence in the surrounding communities. That murder/suicide is truly troubling, but it seems to be a domestic dispute, at least according to police.

Old Navy Shooting: Chicago Downtown Store Locked Down, Two DEAD


CHICAGO — Police in Chicago say two people were shot to death in an apparent murder-suicide at the Old Navy clothing store in the heart of the city's Loop retail corridor.

Chicago Police Officer spokesman John Mirabelli says details are sketchy about Friday's shootings but that it appears the deaths were part of a domestic dispute.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Still the violence is not as brazen as in the outlying areas. Still, I say, call in the Feds and the State Police to quell the violence in support of the police, not the National Guard. It is not a natural disaster or a terrorist incident, but average run-of-the-mill gang on gang violence and drug disputes. Unfortunately, police and civilians are getting caught in the crossfire. Money for hiring is being diverted into the pockets of the politicians, and that is the simple truth. Maybe the National Guard ought to raid City Hall?

I am in agreement with you and there are a lot of bad apples and the Chicago Police Department is certainly on par with the corruption of the LAPD. One needs to look no further than John Burge www.abovetopsecret.com... instances of cops working in unison with drug dealers, beatings, planting evidence, and other notorious exploits. There are tons of articles about that. So, yes, the Chicago Police has skeletons in their closet. However, that does not take away the fact that money is being robbed from them by the politicians and it is affecting public safety. There are also good cops among the bad apples as well. Thanks for the reply, and good luck in the burbs!

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Here is the problem my friend Jakes51, Police can not solve social problems and this is a social problem.

Police can typically only respond to a problem, once it manifests itself into a incident where a crime has occurred or is occurring, and that is pretty much the way it should be.

Who can solve this problem? Corporate America! The captains of industry who have for decades been looking to squeeze a few pennies more out in profit by exporting jobs and economic opportunities out of the country, or handing the jobs to automated machines and robots, that are likewise most often manufactured abroad.


Yes, I am sure unemployment is playing a role in some of this violence. However, Chicago has always been a violent city going back to when the city was incorporated. People have largely accepted that fact, however, this gang violence is so brazen it is absolutely appalling! There was even shootings happening while that reporter was giving his report and even with his police escort. The criminals know the police are in a precarious situation, and outgunned.

Therefore, we are experiencing a feeding frenzy of crime. Criminals thrive during social disturbances and states of emergency. Clearly, Chicago is experiencing a state of emergency. Yes, more jobs would help, but most of these people love crime and would never belittle themselves by becoming tax paying citizens. Some truly enjoy the outlaw lifestyle, and parasitically feeding off the weak. Some would refer to them as sociopaths. All you can do is lock them up as long as you can. Perhaps, they are addicted to the adrenaline rush crime offers?


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The reality is there are just not enough jobs, and real opportunities to sustain the population, and the hardest to employ segment of society, are young people, ages 16-25 who lack real world work experience, and must vie for what are often poor paying jobs with people two and three times their ages, who are much better qualified to work those positions.

When times are relatively good, traditionally those who can’t find work, or fit into the system at the entry level will turn to the black market for employment.

When times are bad though, those rackets turn much more competitive just as legitimate enterprises do. Fewer black market customers, with fewer dollars to spend, are then viciously fought over in turf wars, by organized criminal elements looking to establish and maintain a portion of an ever decreasing market and revenue stream.

They become all the more willing to use violence to gain or maintain a piece of the pie.


I am in agreement with the points above, and I truly fear what will become of the youth when they enter the workforce and find the opportunities of their mother's and father's gone. Their futures have been robbed, and most of the legitimate employment opportunities are becoming smaller and smaller. Call it corporate greed, corruption, inflation, breakdown of society, or other disparaging causes, but clearly, society seems to be on the verge of collapse. As I said earlier, criminals thrive in a state of emergency. So, it is only obvious those disenfranchised individuals will resort to the black market to butter their bread. Moreover, even the Founding Fathers were black marketeers when the British tried to squeeze them. So, much of what you said I agree with.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The problem is Jakes51, the American Pie is growing smaller and smaller, at a steady and alarming pace, while the people who by necessity of survival that need a slice of that pie to sustain themselves is growing larger and larger.

This isn’t a police problem, this is a societal problem, this is a management problem, and the kind of problem that does not cease being a problem simply by hiring a few more police officers or turning entire urban zones into armed police encampments.

Desperate times breed desperate actions and the clichés often employed where an honest man can always find an honest day’s work are belied by the actual unemployment numbers.

Job growth incentives, educational programs, community outreach programs and creative proactive solutions are required to correct, minimize and eventually eliminate these problems.

Nothing is going to completely eliminate the problem, as long as the government tries to regulate morality by regulating vices, and creating a vacuum where black market enterprises are the only organizations poised to deliver such goods and services.

However the truth is that the average street corner drug dealer will earn on average 350.00 per week, in a very risky and often deadly trade.

This is about 100.00 dollars more than you would earn working 40 hours a week at an entry level job at Wal-Mart or a fast food outlet.

So if such people could make 500.00 a week legitimately through readily available employment opportunities, many of them would forsake the trade.

It really is simple math, and the artificial scarcity paradigm where the government and corporations deliberately provide less work, and less pie, than the numbers of people, is designed to create this kind of chaos, which is presented in such a way that you turn to the government in the same way you would turn to the mafia, for protection, instead of solutions, to eliminate the problem.

Cops won’t eliminate the problem, it just grows the government and gives it more control, and along with that, the ability to provide less and less in the way of work and pie.

Citizens shouldn’t be reacting like the government reacts or the police react, they should be responding with protests for demands for jobs, education, and genuine economic opportunities and a legitimate chance for a quality life that makes a life of crime less attractive in comparison.


Now, the jest of what said above would imply this is a sociological problem. That I am in agreement with as well. However, as the saying goes, "Rome was not built in a day." Perhaps, the social outreach programs, better education opportunities, strengthening family values, and other measures are what is needed to keep the youth from resorting to crime to support their families, and to rehabilitate criminals who want to go the honest route. However, that will take generations, but at present the corruption needs to be rooted out in the city of Chicago. The politicians have blood on their hands and they know it. They need to be taken to task as to why the city is enduring a crime wave of epic proportions, and why funding for the police seems derived from excessive taxation has vanished. Something is rotten, and innocent people are being killed. So, yes this is a sociological problem at its very core. However, more police on the streets will keep the criminals from acting out so brazenly with their crimes. Still, some will never submit to the system, and truly enjoy the criminal lifestyle. Very good reply, and I must say you dug deep on this one. Well done!



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


So much of this crime is drug related, just as during the prohibition days of Capone, it was alcohol related.

Look at a State like Amsterdam where most drugs are legal or not felonies to posses. Prostitution is also legal. As a result these industries are regulated and taxed by the state, and there is little to no violence associated with these trades as a result.

Likewise when prohibition was repealed most of Chicago’s bloody gang wars tapered off to almost nothing, there were other rackets and vices for them to get into, but without the huge cash payoffs that make murderous private wars worth the risk.

Much of the problem is in attempting to legislate morality, which many people imagine is the moral thing to do but is it really? How is it morally alright to allow a man to consume a fifth of whiskey and become so inebriated he drives his car into a telephone poll, but morally wrong for another man to smoke a marijuana cigarette, or inject himself with heroin, or take a pharmaceutical pill that are deemed safe for people suffering some pain or ailment, but off limits to those who aren’t?

There really is no difference, until you stop to look at how the state profits through the prison industrial complex, which is a lucrative money making machine, and how politicians and police officials profit from having the tax payers fund this huge enterprise that incarcerates and puts to labor, for a profit, the largest per capita prison population in the world, and the lucrative bribes and partnerships that politicians and police officials form with criminal kingpins.

The reality is that people turn to crime, because it has the potential for high profit, because it entails great risk. Take the great risk out of it, by making it legal, now you are down to a volume enterprise where you are making 5 to 10 percent off of your investment, as opposed to 100, 200, and 300 percent off of your investment or more.

Now you actually have to have some real business acumen and strategy, and most of the people would turn to flipping or selling hamburgers if the profits were identical.

None of these things happen by accident Jakes51. They are allowed to develop and allowed to develop for a profit, and multiple revenue streams, and power.

The saddest day in the world for organized crime was when prohibition was repealed, it literally cut the criminal syndicates out of a cash cow.

Yet it illustrated lessons to the State and the Politicians, and the Criminal Syndicates in bed with them at the upper echelons of how legislating morality has it’s profit.
The lesson that was lost, is that the largely Christian Women who had earned the recent right to vote through the Suffrage Movement, exercised their numbers, to a class of politicians, that wanted their votes, and outlawed alcohol, feeling it was along the lines of their Christian Morality and the world would be a better and a safer place for doing that.

The results were disastrous and deadly, and led to an expansion and rise of a criminal syndicate that works hand in hand with the shadow government right on through today, in recognizing that they as well as the political and corporate elite all earn a profit through the legislation of morality that causes people to not just pay a higher premium for their vices, but fuels a whole industry that pays dividends across the board.

Yes, as always the masses suffer for this manipulation, but just like with Prohibition, inviting the military or an stepped up overwhelming military presence into the community will only lead to bad things in and of itself, if the root problem is not resolved.

The root problem, is especially the desire on the part of some to legislate morality at all costs, and of course at all costs creates great profits for people at the top and every level of the food chain.

Stop legislating morality 2/3rds of the problem goes away, combine that with real economic opportunity and growth, and education and outreach, the problem becomes hardly a blip on the radar, and then you are down to just having to deal with the true sociopaths, instead of people who just don’t have any real good choices to take in life.

Thanks.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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It's really unfortunate that a city like Chicago who has such a rich history and was at one time, one of the premier cities of the US has been left to devolve as it has.

You would think that the Government, along with Corporate America would attempt to help solve the problem.

After all, eventually things will get out of hand and we fall into situations like the one we see presently.

I certainly would not want to be a police officer in Chicago today. I can't imagine the hell they go through day in an day out.

I actually thing the guard is a good idea, although I would create a somewhat new group which would have all of the rules and regulations are regular police officers, just heavier presence.

I don't know what that would entail, the creation of such a unit, but what else can you do at this point?

The jobs aren't going to come back. The housing is too far gone to be brought back.

~Keeper



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


thanks, funny thing is it seemed like chicago was worse when i was little! i guess we are so accustomed to gang violence and crime that we dont realize its actually getting worse! you are right the majority of murders are happening in predominately black and hispanic neighborhoods..



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


Wait a second, Chicago is having issues with Law Enforcement, and pay?

I seem to remember that the "Bailout Package" was supposed to address funding.

Yet they are requesting the National Guard as a means to assist Law Enforcement?

Sorry, this is a conflict of interests, and as well against Posse Comitatus.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Posse Comitatus

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement.

The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Navy, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress.

The Coast Guard is exempt from the Act.


MARTIAL LAW: Lawmakers Want National Guard On The Streets Of Chicago


Something sure is fishy in the land of gangsters if you ask me.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Yes, I am in agreement with you and the idea of legislating morality has got to be the most asinine thing. Humans are creatures of free choice, and to have some leader or government tell you how to live is just plain ludicrous. Chances are those same leaders and government bureaucrats suffer the same afflictions as those they impress their will upon. That is how I feel about it, but in all due reality it is not feasible. What you are hinting at is a Utopian type society which is not how the world works at this present juncture in the development of humanity. Maybe further down the line it may be feasible, and that is if we don't destroy ourselves.

The fact of the matter is Chicago is a place were corruption runs rampant, and taxpayer funds are diverted into the pockets of the politicians. It is though the bigwigs do it with impunity? That is why blood is flowing in the streets of Chicago. Money that was supposed to be put toward public safety is not. In essence these politicians are being payed to lie, cheat, and steal by the taxpayers. Just a bunch of thugs in high priced suits. They ought to answer as to why taxpayer funds are not being given to law enforcement to patrol the streets.

Therefore, more police on the streets should drive the criminals below ground were they belong. Crime has been around since man crawled out of the primordial slime, and it will be with us until the end. However, in the case of Chicago, a larger police presence on the streets should discourage the criminals from being so blatant with their criminal activities. However, until the manpower issue is addressed, the Governor will have no choice but to call in the National Guard, state police, or seek assistance from the FBI. That is how I feel on the subject. Thanks for the reply!

[edit on 17-5-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:56 PM
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If they wanted to reduce the crime rate they would legalize guns and give them out to the heads of the households with no criminal records.

The problem is when the criminals have the guns, and the good citizens don't.

See what stupid liberals do when they outlaw guns, this is a prime example...



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Chicago still is a great city. However, it has a seedy underworld at its very core that needs to be removed. Pay-to-Play, fraud, cash filled envelopes with the morning paper, slacking on the job by city workers while billing the city exorbitantly, good ol' boy hiring system for city jobs, and on and on . . . The corruption is absolutely staggering, and has practically paralyzed the city, and the state for that matter. Many of the Chicago stooges are down in Springfield, and have significant clout.

Money is going to all the wrong places. Now there is another issue to contend with with that will only shoulder the burden of an already stretched police department. It includes taking state troopers off interstates around Chicago which have been traditionally their area of responsibility.

Chicago Police Officers To Patrol Expressways? State Police Layoffs Could Spread CPD (More) Thin



The state's budget woes could cause the already understaffed Chicago Police Department to be spread even more thin. As Illinois State Police face layoffs, the CPD will have to take over patrolling the city's 53 miles of highway if Governor Pat Quinn's budget passes.

The Sun-Times reports that the possible switch could not come at a worse time:

In year No. 2 of a hiring slowdown, the Chicago Police Department is 700 officers short of its authorized strength and more than 2,100 officers short each day, counting those on medical rolls and limited duty.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

So, now if this budget passes police how are already over stretched in those troubled neighborhoods will be tasked with policing the expressways as well? You have got to be kidding me? We are taxed to the gills in this state, but still they are groaning about a deficit and having no money? It is absolutely unacceptable. If you ask me, these politicians who are supposed to be good stewards of the taxpayers dollars ought to take pay cuts, and other restrictive measures against them. Whatever happened to being frugal and honest? Perhaps, that is for another era and certainly not the one we have before us. It is a mess, but a military presence in a major American city gives me the creeps. I say lift Daley's draconian gun ban, and give the honest citizens an opportunity to project power to the scavengers and parasites. That will never happen though. As the mayor continues to spin the facts about gun control, and gun violence. Thanks for the reply!


[edit on 17-5-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by conspiracy nut
 


What makes things worse today, the gangs have no leadership as they once had. Now, it is mainly a bunch of factions vying for turf and respect with seeming no direction or motive. Plus, the police and FBI have essentially dismantled the leadership of these gangs, and now these gang members are out there trying to make a name for themselves with no respect for human life, rules, or hierarchy.

Police Struggle to Navigate New Gang Landscape


Past crackdowns by the police had created a shifting landscape in the world of street gangs; as an older generation of gang leaders was put behind bars, the sociology of gangs changed, spawning fragmentation and turf wars.

With no leadership to enforce discipline, once-petty arguments over dice games or girlfriends quickly escalated into violent and even fatal attacks, making enforcement particularly tough.

Even Mr. Weis admits that the department has arrested and jailed so many gang leaders that it has become, in a sense, a victim of its own success.

www.chicagonewscoop.org...

In other words, there are a bunch of loose cannons roaming the streets with itchy trigger fingers. At one time I used to remember when organized crime and other criminal enterprises took every step to ensure their activities were as discreet as possible from the authorities and the general public. Remember it is always about money, and they used to go to great lengths to protect it. Too much attention by the public is bad for business. It is just a mess, and it looks like it is only going to get worse. It seems like things have gotten far worse than I remember though. You have an overstretched police force, and usually violent summer months are right around the corner.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I find it kind of odd too, that the police are feeling the pinch on funding since the Federal Government injected almost a trillion dollars into the state and local economies a year ago? What happened to the Stimulus funds that I thought was going to go toward police, fire, public works, and other services?

U.S. to provide $1 billion to hire cops



(CNN) -- The federal government will give $1 billion in grants to law enforcement agencies in every state to pay for the hiring and rehiring of law enforcement officers, Vice President Joe Biden and Attorney General Eric Holder announced Tuesday.

The money comes from the stimulus bill -- the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 -- the officials said. The law is designed to help pull the U.S. out of its recession by providing and saving jobs, and helping those most affected by the downturn in the economy.

www.cnn.com...

So, there you have it. Some of that money was to go toward funding the police. However, this is Chicago we are talking about and some of that money could be anywhere right now? Buried in someone's backyard or in the freezer wrapped in tinfoil. All jest aside, why are the police still experiencing manpower shortages, if funds were specifically set aside for law enforcement? Why are the taxpayers of Chicago not demanding bold transparency of how their money is being used and distributed by the Daley Administration? The stimulus spending remains a mystery in Illinois and Chicago. No one really knows where the money is going.



With the summer months ahead, violence is only going to get worse.



Something seems fishy as you say in gangster land, and Chicago received a lot of Federal Stimulus funding.



According to City of Chicago bean counters, the city will get a little over $1 billion from the federal stimulus plan, which is aimed to jump start the economy.

abclocal.go.com...

As for the deployment of National Guard troops to do civilian law enforcement activities, I am against it all the way. That is not the purpose of the military. Only in dire situations of peril, a natural disaster, terrorist attack, insurgency, or invasion by a foreign power. Those are what the armed forces are intended to respond to on American soil, not disputes by some petty thugs on the streets of Chicago. We have both Federal and State law enforcement to offer assistance and guidance if needed. Plus, as you put it, it is in clear violation of the Constitution and the Posse Comitatus Act. Those legislators should know better than requesting the use of troops in an American city for law enforcement. However, it seems to be their solution for everything now a days. I think Bruce Willis's character, General Devereaux, from the movie, "The Siege," sums it up quite nicely about the use of combat troops, whether National Guard or Federal, in an American city.



General William Devereaux: The Army is a broad sword, not a scalpel. Trust me, senator - you do not want the Army in an American city.

www.imdb.com...

Thanks for the reply!





[edit on 17-5-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by xstealth
If they wanted to reduce the crime rate they would legalize guns and give them out to the heads of the households with no criminal records.

The problem is when the criminals have the guns, and the good citizens don't.

See what stupid liberals do when they outlaw guns, this is a prime example...


I agree with you and the Chicago gun ban needs to go in the trash where it belongs. This may be the case with "McDonald v City of Chicago," now before the Supreme Court which may lift the local ban on firearms in the city of Chicago when their ruling is made? Here is Mr. McDonad's story and his reasoning for taking the case before the Supreme Court and analysis by Fox New's, Judge Andrew Napolitano.





At present, it is absolutely ludicrous to make residents sitting ducks as crime is rampant, murder, and mayhem are plaguing the streets. Then you have an overstretched police department who are having problems responding and fielding the show of force necessary to deter crime. Also a Mayor and Superintendent of police having gun drives where law abiding citizens surrender firearms, and at the same time the criminals turn these citizens' neighborhoods into shooting galleries.





It is the most illogical thing I have ever seen. Now, to be fair, guns are used in domestic disputes, and sometimes kids get a hold of them when they are not properly secured. However, there is an inherent risk when we walk outside our doors everyday as well.

Moreover, the criminals will think twice about breaking into someone's house, robbing them on the street, and holding a neighbor under siege if they know some of the people may be armed. Then it ought to take some of the burden off of the police as well. Here is a good video about the fallacy that is "Gun Control."



Thanks for the reply!

[edit on 17-5-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


While not on the Chicago issue I found this video from March rather funny.

Obama Administration Transparency Being Called Into Question


Sorry, but we're being lied to, over and over, about transparency.

The alleged Bailout Package had Law Enforcement budgeting all throughout it.

Where did that money go and what was done with it?

Debtors Revolt in Chicago to Protest Bailout Bonuses


Odd, is it not, an alleged transparent Government, but the same old lies?


Quote from : Transparency (Behavior)

Transparency, as used in the humanities and in a social context more generally, implies openness, communication, and accountability.

It is a metaphorical extension of the meaning a "transparent" object is one that can be seen through.

Transparent procedures include open meetings, financial disclosure statements, freedom of information legislation, budgetary review, audits, etc.

Politics

In politics transparency is introduced as a means of holding public officials accountable and fighting corruption.

When government meetings are open to the press and the public, when budgets and financial statements may be reviewed by anyone, when laws, rules and decisions are open to discussion, they are seen as transparent and there is less opportunity for the authorities to abuse the system in their own interest.

In government, politics, ethics, business, management, law, economics, sociology, etc., transparency is the opposite of privacy; an activity is transparent if all information about it is open and freely available.

Thus when courts of law admit the public, when fluctuating prices in financial markets are published in newspapers, those processes are transparent.

When military authorities classify their plans as secret, transparency is absent.

This can be seen as either positive or negative; positive, because it can increase national security, negative, because it can lead to secrecy, corruption and even a military dictatorship.


Nothing tranparent about anything so far other than seeing right through the lies.

I was hard as Hell on George W. Bush, from the moment he hit the White House, and gave Obama a fair shot, because I had never heard of him, prior to him running for office, but it's been a year and a half now.

And I know I'm done waiting for him to do anything since he's proven he's full of lies just like all of the other President's before him, typical bureaucrat.

He's Barack Obama


Where's the transparency, accountibility, and responsibility of the Obama Administration?



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Thing about President Obama is he is all talk and no substance. He speaks a good jive, but that is about it. Mr. President, "Where's the beef?" Moreover, just another snake oil's salesman, who tell you he is selling you the world, moon, and the stars, but when things get put in motion you get a steaming pile of dog crap. In other words, he says one thing and does another.





As for secrecy, it appears they are hiding much. Moreover, the transparency thing from the campaign was nothing more than a slogan or rhetoric. I truly believe our Presidents have become nothing more than a figurehead and a brand ambassador for the United States.

They have too many to answer to. For example, he has to feed the party that occupies the legislature as the majority, the corporate entity who funded the most to get them elected, the armies of lobbyists, their party bosses and base, and after all the scavengers have eaten and had their fill; finally the American people. I would think of the President as the elastic man being tugged and pulled from many different angles by a bunch of ravenous wolves. I seldom believe they are making decisions on their own? I am fairly certain most of the decisions are made following whispers, and meetings in the many smoke-filled backrooms of the Capitol.

Perhaps, this man went to Washington with an honest vigor and vitality to save the world, one piece of legislation at a time? However, when he got there, he got a rude awakening by the political operatives, and the permanent residents of Washington about how things really work. Everything is ebb and flow, and if you go against the grain, things can be get very difficult for the head executive. In other words, the President is just a spoke on the wheel along with the other politicians. The wheel as far as I am concerned are the special interests, and the mountains of money that go through Washington. Just as in Chicago, as it is in any major American city and the Capitol for that matter, "Cash is King."

As for transparency, it seems this Administration wants to hide a lot. Remember who is part of the Administration, the same thugs that began their political careers in Chicago. Many are card carrying members of the Chicago Machine. Who knows how many favors Barack Obama owes to his old friends in the City of Wind? Favor for a favor, no one gets to where he is coming up in the bare-knuckle world of Chicago politics without knowing someone and doing something for them. He was not even a juiced in local and good ol' boy. He was a nobody when he got there, and came out of no where.

If you asked me, he was groomed and cultivated in Chicago to shed that broad shoulder, never saw an envelope of cash they didn't like, side-mouth talking stereotypical appearance assigned to your usual run-of-mill Chicago politician. In other words, he was is their prodigal son, and the man who would take them to the Federal spigot of cash. What scares me about this President, is the environment he came up in and the goons he has in his entourage, and their lust for financial gain.

Seeing what has happened as a result of rampant corruption in the state of Illinois and the city of Chicago, and a skyrocketing deficit. It is only obvious some of that element would have made their way to Washington alongside the golden boy. Perhaps, the astronomical spending on grandiose projects, an administration riddled with lobbyists and special interests, and a skyrocketing deficit by government. Maybe the Federal Government is slowly turning into Chicago, but on a national level? With time, look for a complete breakdown in the political process, and paralysis to services provided by government. When that happens they will raise taxes no matter what the state of the economy is. The same stuff goes on in Mayor Richard Daley's Chicago. This is fine example of how it works, and it is from Martin Scorsese's, "Goodfellas." Viewer discretion is advised, foul language.



That is how I see the Federal Government being run at the moment. That guy who got his place busted out, might as well be the taxpayer, and the place might as well be the US when the crooks are done. Rack up the tab with these grandiose agendas, and bust the place out as they crawl back down their holes from which they came when people catch wind of the scam and robbery. Welcome to the United States of America, Chicago style. After what is mentioned above, and where President is from and whom he associates with, I would try to remain as silent as possible about the happenings in my administration as well. Thanks for the reply!


[edit on 18-5-2010 by Jakes51]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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124, huh, just wait until summer really comes in and the gang wars start, the number will surly go up. Last year, they had fully automatic out on the streets, a war zone is an accurate description.

I blame Daly, period. Yes, the police do need more people that is clear. I do not think that the national guard is the answer though. The same "solution" was attempted in Gary Indiana, oh about 15-20 years ago. Immediately, yes there was a decrease in violent crime, but as soon as the guards left it was back to the norm, within hours. What really did have a lasting effect was began a few years ago, and that was cleansing the city of corrupt officials.

The level of corruption within the city is not only disgusting, it's unsustainable. They have become too greedy, too corrupt and again they only way to fix it is to cleanse the city of these officials. Vote them out of office, assuming we can get a fair election that is.



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