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Serious vs ridiculous conspiracies

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posted on May, 15 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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Look, I believe in conspiracies, because I have been part of a number of them.

However, developing a conspiracy theory on "everything" blurs the lines for those things that need to be seriously evaluated. If you don't know the difference in a thermal blanket and a thermal protection tile, why the astronauts are in microgravity, but not weithlessness, and are unfamiliar with orbital perturbations, stay away from space conspiracies, because you probably don't know enough to really talk about it very logically.

If you don't know how an AIM-120 AAMRAM can be effective BVR (beyond visual range), especially with interactive capacities involving AWACS, and you don't understand the basic concepts of aeronautical control surface dynamics, maybe you shouldn't be trying to explain why the aspect change of a UFO behaves beyond current flight capabilities.

People, there are REAL, SERIOUS, issues out there that are not being explained in the mainline press. But if you treat GE foods, international financial consortiums collaberating to provide a cooperative monopoly of our vital natural resources, etc., in the same way you treat such topics as "we didn't go to the moon," "secret moon bases are commun icating with aliens proven to live in the seas of Europa," and so forth, we are all missing the boat just as much as our elected officials who sat around and let terrorists take down thw Twin Towers, who told us there were WMD when anyone with ANY intelligence background knew that the Iraqi chemical weapons were rudimentary and could not be used in force projection, yet we still went to WAR!

Sure, a lot of those things are just fun to play around with, and I understand that. However, there were people who quit their jobs at KSC because they KNEW Challenger was not safe to launch. There were intel people who had warned that Osama bin-Laden was being funded by the Saudis, and when we allowed him to attack the U.S.S. Cole, attack our Embassies, and prepare for attacks on U.S. soil, but they were discounted. What if they could have gone on the internet and had a REAL website where people would listen?

I have heard for years that the citizens wanted to know what their goverments were up to, but when anyone tries to REALLY tell them, hardly anyone actually wants to know the real events.

It is very frustrating, so I am sorry if I have ranted to much.




posted on May, 15 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by Truth1000
 


I definitely agree with you. We need to first deal with the hidden things that we have evidence for. Once we are sure we have some control over whats really going on and we win the information wars then, maybe, we can afford to spend time dealing with more speculative topics.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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Serious conspiracies:

The rich are trying to own ALL the money

911 was an inside job

The Federal Reserve has set up a system to monetarily enslave people


Ridiculous conspiracies:

Obama's BC is fake

Chemtrails

Liberals want a America to be a communist country



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Truth1000
 


Sometimes, the most seriously important conspiracies, are the ones that sound seriously ridiculous.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


I agree. Who would have thought that a few hoods being found in the Watergate complex had any importance?

The key is this: if there is a REAL conspiracy, there are REAL characteristics as to how they will be operated, how they will be funded, how a chain-of-command will be set up, etc. Real conspiracies don't just pop out of the universal ether - they are planned, executed, and then protected.

If a light airplane goes down, and no one shows up to the crash site for three hours, and then it's just a local cop, no likely major conspiracy just occurred. If an odd-looking piece of metal with a special plexi-glas like window falls from the sky, and 12 helicopters are dispatched, then the next day over 400 soldiers are mobilized to sweep the area on the ground, then a real event just occurred. In this case, that was what happened when an early F-117 had its cockpit windscreen fall off in flight, when the F-117 had not yet been publically revealed.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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Well I would just to for a moment thank you for mentioning this.



and when we allowed him to attack the U.S.S. Cole


Now,from what I know some of the most perfect conspiracies are not even known of.

In 1987 the U.S. Navy was in the Persian Gulf protecting shipping during the Iran/Iraq war.

The U.S.S. Stark was hit by a missile fired by a Iraqi Air Force fighter.

During the Senate inquiry in to this and why it happened the CNO of the Navy was asked what the biggest threat to commercial shipping and U.S. Navy war ships in the Persian Gulf.

His response was the Iranian's and Iraqi's both owned Chinese made Silkworm missles and there was no defense against them by the Aegis class ships because none of our allies had them and therefore the U.S. did not know how they operated.

The area of concern to the U.S. was the Straits of Hormuz which is a choke point entering or leaving the Persian Gulf.

This was a problem until early 1988 when the U.S. and British ships began sailing with confidence in the Persian Gulf and when push came to shove were able to shoot down these missiles.

During this period the U.S. did not have the relationship we have today with the Chinese government.

Does anybody know how the U.S. acquired the technology of these missiles?

I do.


[edit on 15-5-2010 by Oneolddude]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by Truth1000
 


Sometimes, the most seriously important conspiracies, are the ones that sound seriously ridiculous.


Yes, I totally agree. I have seen a lot in my rather long life, and some it it was out of, and not of this world. I believe that ET is the most laughed at, flamed at conspiracy of all, and yet it pervades conspiracy forums. Best way to hide a truth is hide it between two lies.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by Truth1000
 


I wish i could give applause...

Yes, this is a valid point. many people who do not understand anything are trying to blame their own ignorance on HAARP, ACORN, TPTB, etc!

i remember a thread that someone had "proof" that the 8.8 Chilean earthquake was TPTB. it was not proof, more like an awful attempt at them trying to hide their ignorance.

it was not a secret societies fault, it was the fault's fault.

many people now are just creating conspiracies for the heck of it. no basis, just wanna make 1.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by Truth1000
 


The problem is the word itself, conspiracy. TPTB use that term all the time in a derogatory matter. The fact is that every single day, on the most rudimentary level of western/"civilized" societies, conspiracies happen ALL the f'ing time.

Unfortunately, the dictionary states that 2 or more people have to get together to conspire to commit a crime creates a conspiracy. But that definition doesn't mention intentions, which is the most vital reason why people conspire in the first place. If you conspire against the well being of others, knowingly(with people in the know or solo), but it just so happens to be legal, is that still not a conspiracy??

I can conspire with my buddy(wing man), or alone, for the pure intention of hooking up and bedding a certain woman. I can conspire with someone, or by myself, to convince someone to give me money based off lies(or "white lies") for my intentions to do something else with this money. This happens all the freaking time but because it's not illegal does that mean it's ok and not a conspiracy?????

We have a serious communication problem when it comes to using words that describe the basic understanding of this modern world we live in. This, mixed in with apathy, poor education and critical thinking skills, and the garbage spewed out over the airwaves, we can't collectively agree on anything when we get hung up on the meaning of words.

I think we are in big trouble.

edit to add:

Forgot to mention that regular people every single day are charged and convicted with the word conspire or conspiracy attached in some form with their charges. But somehow when you accuse someone in power that they conspired to do x, y, or z, you are considered a nut case because "conspiracy theorists" are loons.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by truthtothemasses]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 01:12 AM
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Prior to WW2 those conspiracy theoryloonies who tried to warn the west of Stalinist Russias real nature were howled down by many.
Anti Hitler conspiracy theorists also were told to shut up.
The two ended up knocking the insides out of each other therefore preserving the freedom of Britain.
Sometimes conspiracies are real but benefical to ignore for some.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by Dr Conspire
 


Excellent post, Dr. Conspire!

If just a small percentage of the people on this site actually tried to seek out the important conspiracies, and expose them for what they are, thies forum could go from a place to discuss whatever outlandish thoughts spontaneously arose in the minds and become a force to actually did into those that truly need to be exposed.

Think about it for a moment, there are former military pilots, naval officers, astronomers, physicists, engineers, and all kinds of other highly trained people who visit this site. No one person knows the whole range of these conspiracies. However, with the bright minds that are here, if we put our brains together, we could make REAL headway in differentiating the whys and howfors the important conspiracies happen, and what they are. Most of the important conspiracies are never even heard by the general public!



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 08:46 AM
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Most of the info on ATS has nothing to do with conspiracy though. Paranormal\ufo ect is not conspiracy amongst other topics.


conspiracy---

a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation; plot.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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Almost every aspect of whatever one thinks about in the way of a planned operation or how any series of events will even be reported are essentially some form of conspiracy.

The real meaing of my topic is that you can't really relate crop circles, reptilean transformations, and the appearance of contrails in the sky to subjects like behind-the-scenes economic controls by Wall Street and the international bankers, the true conspiracies promoting GE crops, and how governments decide which other countries are "allowed" to have nuclear weapons.

It's like comparing apples to a single bird seed. The level of importance to people and nations are NOT comparable.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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I would have to agree, althought, I must say I love the silly ones IE

Cancer is caused by a cancer ray gun that the government shoots at people they don't like.

Allergies are caused by chemical the government sprays in the clouds in order to hike up the price of allergy medication, and implant the medication with chips to track our whereabouts.

Not saying these aren't possible.... But they really aren't lol.

People need to stop believing everyone is out to get them.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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I have no problems with all of the different kinds of topics on a site like this. Some of them are a lot of fun. Still, the thing I would like to say is that while it's fun to watch comedies, there are also times and places for serious documentaries. There are times when important documentaries have cause significant impacts upon our society.

While there are certainly a lot of fun topics, there are a lot of people on ATS with high levels of training, in many varied fields, and with many people who have experiences in many key fields that could be favorably used to try to get topics discussed to make actual changes in our society. Not only that, we have members and visitors from all over the world. This site has great possibilities for this type of function.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Truth1000
 


Well said. I've really noticed since joining the levels of professionalism on this site when it comes to serious discussions. Its great to find a place where I can grow as a person and as someone who wants to learn everything he possibly can.



posted on May, 21 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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A thread of mine "Conspiracy against Beetroot " for some reason was largely ignored, yet it was making a valid point against Cultural imperialism.
Still today in Australian Subways (sandwich bar) you cannot order sliced beetroot in your favourite Sub.
It isnt allowed by the American Master Franchise Owner.
but people didnt deem this as important.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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Why can't there be one board strictly for more serious discussions. If you put a serious thread on many boards, they get derailed and side-tracked so rapidly that those of a more serious temperament find it hard to find these types.



posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 04:34 AM
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Great thread, Truth. Lots of food for thought here. Just as an example, I returned to ATS after a bit of an absence about six weeks into the BP disaster. I hadn't been able to follow these events other than in the MSM, and started to attempt to get on board with it...ATS-style.

What I found kind of blew my mind on a few levels...the sheer number of threads. the disorganization, the chaos, the whack and the serious all jumbled up. It's still driving me mad. There are so many critical bits of information that are simply getting lost because 1.) they're scattered through 3-15 threads on almost the identical topic, 2.) some are posted in Deepwater Disaster (thank someone for at least making that board), and 3.) you can't find things again when you need them to check a point.

All of this left my head spinning, and I just know that synergy of getting many minds together to focus on a single point is being lost. We're not putting together the pieces of the puzzle...it's haphazard at best.

When something like this breaks (9/11 and Swine Flu are other obvious examples), it's pretty critical to get more organized. There are some very good and very experienced people here who have a talent for this but if they don't happen to have the time or the passion on a particular subject, we're sorta sunk. Depending on the moderators to help keeps things sorted doesn't seem to be working too well. Nothing against them...they do a great job but with the activity level on this site, they have their hands full.

Ugh that was a long-winded example, and I don't know exactly what the answer is, but I know that there are some natural leaders here who people respect and congregate too, and all we can do is lead by example in keeping our threads focused (as I've noticed you do quite well) and hope for the best.

And back to your point. Yes. There are the serious and the less serious conspiracies, and with the state of our country and the world today, we really might need to remind people more focused. Oh and I like the fun subjects too!



posted on Jul, 10 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by Truth1000
 


Sounds like you're saying don't talk about stuff you're not qualified to talk about and to only talk about the things that you think are important and ignore the rest.

I think that goes against the spirit of the internet where everyone gets to be an "armchair general" and speak their mind as if they're smarter than everyone else.

Not only that, but I think a lot of people here would take exception to the fact that you're advocating the same thing that people so often criticize the government for doing. (only certain things concern you, the rest is on a need to know basis).

That's the free speech that you love so much. Everyone gets to talk about whatever interests them and you don't get to decide what should interest them and what shouldn't.



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