Schwarzenegger's solution to California's budget woes: End welfare

I posted this in another thread.

I was looking up information on the illegal immigration issue and came across it.

Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually

This is from 2004

Sources for article are from-

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

If anyone does not think this has to do with immigration, you are mistaken.

Yes, it will effect other people in the welfare system, but IMO this is an underhanded way of making it not reference illegal immigration.

As the article goes on to state (the OP's article, not the one here), this is not the only thing that will be targeted.


edit to clarify which article I was referring to in the last sentence.

[edit on 5/15/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by endisnighe


Ooo, yum, end. Can't wait to eat some good clean California Lettuce!

Salad, anyone?

(Did I say that?)

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


I know, I actually have caught my local grocer, a fairly large outfit, mis-mark our lettuce in the shelves. A big made in America on the cooler front and then when you check the labels on the lettuce, lo and behold, product of several different south American countries and Mexico.

I have talked to the manager and told them if I see false advertising again like that I would be filing a lawsuit. I shop for me and my mother, she is invalid yet still lives in her own house, so I am there almost every other day. I eat fresh produce as much as possible. Cannot stand prepackaged, sterilized, salt preserved, etc etc etc.

I actually miss the markets in Fresno California. That is pretty much all I use to eat. I actually ate most of the time in grocery stores there. They had little eating areas in most of the grocers. Yes, a little weird but IMO, very healthy eating.

edit to add-I know I went off on a tangent here, I did catch your meaning. All my fresh produce WILL be getting double washes for now on!

[edit on 5/15/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


They go where the money is, there is no money up there.

As Californian who actually experiences the mess in California, I can tell you he it doing the right thing. The rawstory article just worded it in a way to do a number on him since part of the "list of thing to do" are already done.

Besides that, people that live out of California probably have no idea what it has been like to live under the previous few governors. The govenator has done an awesome job to baby-wipe the mess they made.


Has it been a fun ride... no. Do I want to return to the previous governor's ways... are you freak'n insane?

One thing on the list left to do is to get rid of the welfare-to-work program. That program is so freak'n abused it causes more problems than it could ever fix. It puts people in 'AID' status, which mean they are 'in debt' no different like any bank would put anybody in-debt. How many people love to expand the national debt? If you love doing that then you'll probably love to keep the welfare-to-work program going because it is an automatic expansion of 'AID'(heint 'debt') with no vote but with merely by every single application turned in... someone's got to pay for it and it doesn't get paid by the state. The state only pays for state employees paycheck. When they talk about a larger budget for the welfare-to-work program... they mean a larger budget to put more people in 'AID'(debt) status.

What's worse, it takes a freak'n judge to get out of 'AID' status. That process is worse then being on crack. It doesn't matter if you paid the entire 'AID' amount back... you pay... and pay... and you don't stop paying until the judge says you are done... or until some miracle person losses your records.

Wake up people... all you thought this was a bad idea for what the governator wants... he is a freak'n genius and stand-ups and targets exactly what needs to change.

If you don't live in California... you don't know what you are saying. Don't make it worse for us just because rawstory wrote some spin job on him.

I don't think you understand what 'welfare-to-work' actually means... they make you work... no you don't get welfare.

Even worse, there is even cases where someone can sign-up and another person is then the one put in debt... that person is forced to work. It happens more than you would think. The courts are packed over the issue and made hard to get any change. It's enslavement.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by dzonatas]

reply to post by endisnighe


Let's dissect the report.

The more than $10.1 billion in costs incurred by California taxpayers is composed of outlays in the following areas:

* Education. Based on estimates of the illegal immigrant population in California and documented costs of K-12 schooling, Californians spend approximately $7.7 billion annually on education for illegal immigrant children and for their U.S.-born siblings. Nearly 15 percent of the K-12 public school students in California are children of illegal aliens.

* Health care. Uncompensated medical outlays for health care provided to the state's illegal alien population amount to about $1.4 billion a year.
* Incarceration. The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in California's prisons and jails amounts to about $1.4 billion a year (not including related law enforcement and judicial expenditures or the monetary costs of the crimes that led to their incarceration).

www.fairus.org...

Education- they are counting US citizens in the total cost. Furthermore, schools don't document who is illegal and who isn't.

The costs of illegal immigration are both quantifiable
and non-quantifiable. Because data on illegal
immigration generally are not collected, even
quantifiable costs must be educated estimates.
The absence of recorded data on illegal alien
enrollment in school, use of taxpayer-supported
medical care, and other public services is not accidental.

PDF File

Estimates of the costs of uncompensated medical
outlays are necessarily imprecise. As the U.S.
General Accounting Office noted in a May 2004
report, “Hospitals generally do not collect information
on their patients’ immigration status, and
as a result, an accurate assessment of undocumented
aliens’ impact on hospitals’ uncompensated
care costs — those not paid by patients or by
insurance — remains elusive.”30
However, there is no doubt that illegal immigrant

Same source as above

Assuming that the illegal alien inmate population
in California has risen to 48,000 prisoner
years, the incarceration cost will be about $1.5
billion per year. Offsetting reimbursements
under SCAAP reduce that to a net amount of
out-of pocket expenditures of about $1.4 billio

Source same as above

Seems this 10 billion dollar is based on a bunch of educated guesses and a lot of Assuming.

I really wish there was a way to find out what the true cost is without a lot of misleading numbers on both sides of the issues.

Appreciate you providing the link.

reply to post by dzonatas


Sorry, I have lived in Cali, and so did both my parents.

They had enough of the way the state was run while they were living there, and moved to ......ARIZONA!

Maybe if enough people leave the state, they will get the message.

Perhaps what needs to happen is that everyone who isn't illegal and on welfare should move.

If we can't send 'em home, perhaps California will do.

Disgusting place!

reply to post by dzonatas

I don't live in California, but I would kinda worry about a massive spike in crime. It's really no better anywhere else, so where would they go? I would think, that welfare recipients would become more desperate and turn to crime. I think Welfare is a joke and produces a prolonged state of dependency, It has it's place... but I believe those people who get it, should at least have to do some work for it, If only picking up trash.

Having lived during the govenators years of running california I can say this:
1) This is not just the govenors problem, but the state legislature as well. He has been trying to balance the buget since he has taken office, but is often stalled at the legislature level. He has a lot of good ideas.
2) This is his last year as govenor, so he can make the more unpopular decision and will not be getting reelected, so he is cutting loose and cutting out programs, not afraid of anyone right now. Looks like the govenator is going to go out with a bang.

reply to post by jam321


Yes, I swear all of the numbers are guess work. Extrapolation is the only true way to define the numbers.

What I usually do, is average the numbers given.

The government will try to low ball the numbers and the others will try to high ball the numbers.

By my best guesstimates using that averaging, I have found just add at least 50% to whatever the government states in regards to illegal immigration impacts.

Originally posted by Target Earth
I don't live in California, but I would kinda worry about a massive spike in crime.

Being that Sacramento is said to have the roughest main jail, I would think to merely compare the crime rates on the streets 20 years ago to what they are today is a good indication that any extra crime is still going to be much less than what it was 20 years ago. The street and gang problem are a laugh today compared to what they were. At least the gangs get along and reports the main jail doesn't need to be completely segregated from every other part of town.

I would think, that welfare recipients would become more desperate and turn to crime.

Why? Because the budget cut wouldn't pay for the buildings to house and pay attorneys that make people work, anymore? The budget doesn't pay welfare directly to the people, so to cut the budget doesn't stop giving income to anybody except the attorneys that were paid to put people in jail if they did not work to pay their debt ('aid' status).

Only real welfare people get in California is unemployment (which it limited term and you still have to pay into before you can receive anything), and medical expenses. Only other way to get welfare is by disabilities, and that still is very limited and usually people have to go federal. Everything else about welfare is based on debt... not hand-outs. Foodstamps, they get a credit card that can only be used to by food. They don't get a hand-out of money to buy anything they want.

To cut out welfare-to-work would mean the automatic debt expansion would stop. There will always be a state budget crisis for every time a person signs an application and that application causes to debt to continually expand... that budget never balances because of this. The attorneys would stop being paid. There would be no reason to pack the courts with these 'aid' cases. There would be suddenly a reduction to fund the court system that has taken care of these use overloaded court room and people to staff them and attorneys to pay that all they really do is just tell people to go to work... not give them a hand-out.

When will people get the hint?



[edit on 15-5-2010 by dzonatas]

California is failing.

I just spent two days in the Los Angeles area, in Vernon, Santa Fe Springs and Ontario.... What shocked me is the number of businesses and warehouses that are now empty along with corporate office space... hundreds of massive buildings that are now empty... Jobs are gone, and going along with these businesses... Worse yet is the lost revenue the city and state would have collected from these businesses and employees... Many of which are now surviving on government assistance with virtually no job prospects... The numbers hardly reflect the situation hundreds of thousands of people who have been profoundly affected by this evil downward cycle.

It was rather scary and depressing and somewhat hard to explain... The poverty seems barely held stable, however with the current city and state budget crisis and potential cuts to social programs at a time when people need it most will no doubt make a very bad situation for many much, much worse.

I really do not want to go back to LA, and if I lived and worked there I would be frantically looking for a way out of that city, and out of the state.

It can only get worse.

reply to post by RedGolem


S&F'd RG!

Just to set the record straight, Arnold came out firmly AGAINST the Arizona Law.
I found that strange since Arizona's law mirrors the federal laws on immigration. IMHO every one of the Mexican bordering states should pass similar laws since the Feds do absolutely nothing to solve the state's problems with crime and deficits due to illegals.

Schwartzeneger Trashes Arizona Law

However, Arnold is correct to try to do something about ending welfare. Too bad he waited till the end of his term. California is becoming the American version of Greece financially!

The Governor can't pass any laws he can only set the agenda. It remains to be seen whether the liberal California Legislature will act or continue down the path of deficit spending.



[edit on 15/5/10 by plumranch]

good, now the illegals may leave.

reply to post by MemoryShock


While I don't disagree with you what Schwarzenegger propose will either happen sooner or later because California finances are not going to improve as far as I can foresee . What is even more disturbing is that California foreshadows what is going to happen to the US federal government . I just hope that the outbreak of domestic terrorism is dealt with before the US government defaults on its debt .

In any event the hypocrisy is disgraceful. To denounce Arizona..and then turn around and do this is beyond disgusting. It's worse, really.

Yes, worse.

reply to post by skischoow


Illegals are having an even harder time finding work than legal citizens... Maybe they will want to leave, but where can they go now?

Would they be better off in Mexico?

The state claims the unemployment rate is 12.5% but I would say that number is wrong... especially in the Los Angeles area.... It has to be higher, and growing daily.

As I said in my previous post it can only get worse.

Before (IF) they even decide on a budget plan the deficit will have grown far beyond their projections.

What then?

Republicans believe a combination of deep cuts in spending and tax cuts will fix their fiscal problems, Democrats want to raise taxes massively... Both sides fight and the problems only worsen because they aren't addressing the core problem and that is there must be an all out effort to stimulate the economy. They need to make it very easy to do business in California and they need to do it now... If they do not do something immediately then the state is doomed... It may already be too late.

The state of California wants a Federal bailout, what Governor Arnold is doing voicing what he will do if that bailout doesn't come soon enough.

Congress have a bill already in the table to bailout California but this bailout will benefit the union workers and government workers in the state more than anything else, while most of the bailout will go to California still have to share the money with many other states around the nation that also wants a bailout.

The problems in California will still be there with bailout or not.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
In any event the hypocrisy is disgraceful.

What hypocrisy? Where did govenator say he was going to do 'reasonable suspicion' on anybody like Arizona? How is to denounce 'reasonable suspicion' comparable to cut welfare-to-work program?

This is what the welfare-to-work program does:
A) person turns in application
B) state debt is expanded for "deficit spending" upon processed application
C) people are given a program to help them get hired
D) they work while they supposedly pay-back this 'debt'
E) the state collects a portion of everybodies income

Now, think about this, at each step, here is the magic dirty little secret:
A) person lists what they are able to make
B) state expands the debt based on what person says they are able to make
C) companies hire people directly from this 'welfare list'
D) state budget supposedly increases as people work and pay-back debt
E) corporations collect taxes: they keep a portion of the 'expanded debt' being paid in return as an incentive to hire more from the 'welfare list'

The State literally tried to become a bank based on zero-point loans, and it has done this ever since the welfare-to-work programs has been in place.

Someone got to ask, where is this money gonna come from if the State never had it in the first place? They didn't care... they just put people in jail if they didn't work.

reply to post by marg6043


They've been throwing federal money (Highway projects and other backdoor federal funding) at this problem for a long time already and it has still gotten worse.

A bailout without addressing the problem will only delay the inevitable... At all American taxpayers expense of course.

California has spent decades in fear of a major earthquake they call "the big one" .... The big one is hitting them now, it isn't an earthquake but the aftermath could be just as bad.



[edit on 15-5-2010 by Fractured.Facade]