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Illegal immigrant numbers plunge: but dont tell ATS!

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posted on May, 15 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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LA Times

Illegal immigrant numbers plunge


A new report that the nation's illegal immigrant population has declined by nearly 1 million has sharpened the debate over whether to legalize those remaining or allow their numbers to shrink through attrition.

The number of illegal immigrants living in the United States dropped to 10.8 million in 2009 from 11.6 million in 2008, marking the second consecutive year of decline and the sharpest decrease in at least three decades, according to a report this week by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Homeland Security department spokesman Matthew Chandler attributed the decline both to the weak economy and what he called the deployment of "unprecedented resources" in stopping illegal immigration at the U.S.-Mexico border and throughout the country.

"Whether jobs dry up because the government is doing enforcement or because of the recession, illegal aliens react in a rational manner: They either will not come or they'll go home," said Ira Mehlman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. "It certainly shows that illegal immigration is a controllable phenomenon."


It seems like the illegal immigration issue has exploded here in ATS lately. While I believe it is a worthy cause to get behind, I fear that many people are behind it for the wrong reasons.
As I sit here with this knowledge that illegal immigration is actually declining, despite the increasing posts about illegal immigration, I have to wonder what the motivating force is behind the hysterics of many of our posters.

It seems to me that this is just another inconvenient truth amongst a pile of inconvenient truths, the top of which, is that Americans themselves are the biggest facilitator in this whole illegal immigration fiasco.

Hopefully, before reactions exceed actions, level heads will prevail and we can continue this declining trend without violence.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by xEphon]




posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by xEphon
LA Times

Illegal immigrant numbers plunge


A new report that the nation's illegal immigrant population has declined by nearly 1 million has sharpened the debate over whether to legalize those remaining or allow their numbers to shrink through attrition.

The number of illegal immigrants living in the United States dropped to 10.8 million in 2009 from 11.6 million in 2008, marking the second consecutive year of decline and the sharpest decrease in at least three decades, according to a report this week by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Homeland Security department spokesman Matthew Chandler attributed the decline both to the weak economy and what he called the deployment of "unprecedented resources" in stopping illegal immigration at the U.S.-Mexico border and throughout the country.

"Whether jobs dry up because the government is doing enforcement or because of the recession, illegal aliens react in a rational manner: They either will not come or they'll go home," said Ira Mehlman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. "It certainly shows that illegal immigration is a controllable phenomenon."


It seems like the illegal immigration issue has exploded here in ATS lately. While I believe it is a worthy cause to get behind, I fear that many people are behind it for the wrong reasons.
As I sit here with this knowledge that illegal immigration is actually declining, despite the increasing posts about illegal immigration, I have to wonder what the motivating force is behind the hysterics of many of our posters.

It seems to me that this is just another inconvenient truth amongst a pile of inconvenient truths, the top of which, is that Americans themselves are the biggest facilitator in this whole illegal immigration fiasco.

Hopefully, before reactions exceed actions, level heads will prevail and we can continue this declining trend without violence.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by xEphon]

[edit on 15-5-2010 by xEphon]


There are basically two crowds when it comes to those yelling about illegals. And neither are pleasent to be in.

The first refuses to acknowledge that the issue of illegal immigrants goes beyond the illegals themselves. Either they refuse to acknowledge it, or they just can't see it. Which just means they fail at cause and effect logic.

The second group use the issue to spout their racist rhetoric, often times obfuscating their racist tendencies through word play and ambiguity. And none of them will admit it, and even go great lengths saying "I'm not a racist, I'm just a freedom loving hard working American!" You'll see by example when someone quotes this statement and tries to play it off as someone playing the "you're a racist" card.



[edit on 15-5-2010 by SpectreDC]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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Yes, SOME illegal immigrants are leaving. 10.8 million is still a huge number of people The fundamental issues surrounding illegal immigrants remain. Those that are leaving got a great deal. They got to work without paying anything, but sales tax. They got free healthcare, education, and other services. A large portion of the money they made got sent back to their home countries to support their economies. They came looted, and left. Granted, alot of companies benefited from cheap labor as well. On the whole though the average American now pays more for healthcare, education, and other taxation because of illegals. Maybe a few economic goods are a fraction of a percent less, but on the whole the cost for illegal immigration is monumental for all of us.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily
Death toll in 2006 far overshadows total U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, Afghanistan



Saw this article the other day, dated 2010

Article contains a number of disturbing claims, re: immigrants


www.wnd.com...



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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When I left Fresno, California Sept 08, I had a few illegal acquaintances and friends.

I knew of about 6 that had made plans to head back to Mexico.

Yes, once they can no longer make the money to stay, they leave.

Nice to see that they have their true alliances in order.

Now only if Americans felt the same way. You know, alliance to their country and laws.

Hmmm, begs the question. Who is the politician's alliance to? Who are the multi national corporation's alliance to? Who is your alliance to?

Mine is to the Republic of the United States of America, not the corporate United States.

My alliance is also to the LAW of the Constitution. Nothing else. No statutes, no case precedent, no color of law and HELL NOT to a debt currency created to destroy the sovereignty of all the nations of the world.

Ever wonder why they made one currency the world's basis? Was it for the advantage of the US of A, or was it for another nefarious reason?

If there is no borders, why even have a government or a country.

If there is no law, why the hell should I not do anything I want.

If the government and the cronie capitalist/fascist/socialists do not have to follow LAW, why should I?

Is this the mentality now?



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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Thanks, this article is refreshing. What it means to me, is that the lousy economy in the US had a far more reaching aspect.

If Americans are having a hard time finding jobs, then it only stands to show illegals felt the same impact. The study started in 2008, which was about the same time as the economic crisis that plunged Americans into job losses also.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by stephinrazin
 



They got to work without paying anything, but sales tax. They got free healthcare, education, and other services. A large portion of the money they made got sent back to their home countries to support their economies.


And you benefited by lower prices. And despite what you say many do pay taxes. Look up the social security earnings suspense file. As for the portion they sent back, is it against the law to do so.

Why cry about something that is legal. Furthermore, you can't prove that all the money going back to Mexico is from illegals. Hell, I send money to Mexico. And there is probably a lot of drug money involved in there as well.

Healthcare, where are the numbers. Hospitals don't ask who is legal and who isn't. Furthermore, there are 47 million(probably more now) Americans without health insurance. You mean to tell me they aren't running up a tab. Then figure out those like me who have healthcare but can't afford to pay what my insurance doesn't.

Education, please show me the stats how many illegals are in school. Schools don't ask who is legal and who isn't. People got no problem with coaches making in the 100,000's or above for winning games, but have problem educating kids for a better society...Go figure



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 



Nice to see that they have their true alliances in order.


You try living in a country where your always one step away from being deported and see how easy it is to show alliance. Try driving around with no driver license and praying the whole time that the cops don't pull you over.

Hard to show alliance when you have to live in the shadows.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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It is in decline. That fact is a good indication that we are on the right track. This information should only make you fight harder to regain your country, as it clearly shows we are making progress fighting illegal immigration.

Wonderful. Keep up the good fight. I'd love to see a number under half a million, but I would settle for anything under two million. (A bit more manageable than our current mess).

i944002's 3 steps for restoring the value of American citizenship.

1. Deport the ENTIRE nuclear family of any recent immigrant (Within 8 years) convicted of committing any crime.

2. Deport ANY non-English speaking immigrants.

3. CUT OFF immigration from ALL Muslim majority countries. STOP the brain-drain, and let the educated Muslims stay in their own countries to fight the Barbarism of Islam, and keep it from spreading.

(Imagine if Afghanistan had a capable, educated class of people to serve in government leadership roles.., wouldn't that make things easier?) Unfortunately, because of immigration, Afghanistan has almost zero people capable of governing. (They have been bringing back Afghan's from all over the world to serve in Afghan government, like a Provincial Governor who moved back to Afghanistan from B.C, Canada.)



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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[edit on 15-5-2010 by In nothing we trust]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by jam321

You try living in a country where your always one step away from being deported and see how easy it is to show alliance. Try driving around with no driver license and praying the whole time that the cops don't pull you over.

Hard to show alliance when you have to live in the shadows.


You know, your crassness really upsets me. My parents, in Arizona, were hit and run by an illegal.

Do you have any idea, how difficult the whole shebang was?

Why are these people driving in the US? My parents were nearly killed, and the a-hole who hit them, just went back over the border.

Grow some nuts, and sense while you are at it!



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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How do they have such exact numbers on how many illegals are in the country? Do all the illegals take part on some illegal census?



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by i944002
 





Deport ANY non-English speaking immigrants.


Come on, obey the law. Oh wait, there is no law saying you have to learn English. The only requirement for English is if one desires to become a citizen, which many don't.


CUT OFF immigration from ALL Muslim majority countries. STOP the brain-drain, and let the educated Muslims stay in their own countries to fight the Barbarism of Islam, and keep it from spreading.


Wow!!!!! Islam isn't any different than any other other religion. All of them have extremists or people who take it to the extreme.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by xEphon
As I sit here with this knowledge that illegal immigration is actually declining, despite the increasing posts about illegal immigration, I have to wonder what the motivating force is behind the hysterics of many of our posters.

Republicans only know how to win elections by being the hero that saves you from a problem they need to create for you. Gays, guns, and God are not going to work this time around but brown foreigners is hot stuff right now!



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 



My parents, in Arizona, were hit and run by an illegal.


sorry about your parents.

But hit and run is bad no matter whether the person is legal or not. Didn't Ted kennedy and charles Wilson run away from accident scenes?


Why are these people driving in the US?


Why are many Americans driving in the US with no license? Used to be illegals could get a license. At least then, cops would have had their fingerprints and data on file.


Grow some nuts, and sense while you are at it!


If you could see my nutz you would probably tell me to get surgery and reduce them to normal size.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by stephinrazin
 



They got to work without paying anything, but sales tax. They got free healthcare, education, and other services. A large portion of the money they made got sent back to their home countries to support their economies.


And you benefited by lower prices. And despite what you say many do pay taxes. Look up the social security earnings suspense file. As for the portion they sent back, is it against the law to do so.

Why cry about something that is legal. Furthermore, you can't prove that all the money going back to Mexico is from illegals. Hell, I send money to Mexico. And there is probably a lot of drug money involved in there as well.

Healthcare, where are the numbers. Hospitals don't ask who is legal and who isn't. Furthermore, there are 47 million(probably more now) Americans without health insurance. You mean to tell me they aren't running up a tab. Then figure out those like me who have healthcare but can't afford to pay what my insurance doesn't.

Education, please show me the stats how many illegals are in school. Schools don't ask who is legal and who isn't. People got no problem with coaches making in the 100,000's or above for winning games, but have problem educating kids for a better society...Go figure


What world are you living in?
It is against the law to send money to Mexico? Remittances are a huge part of the Mexican economy? Granted they have fallen, but it is still 1.69 BILLION in 2009.
online.wsj.com...
In 2005 remittances were higher than all oil revenue.
www.diggersrealm.com...

As far as healthcare is concerned of those 47 million un-insured Americans are included the 10 million plus illegals. I admit un-insured citizens drive up costs as well, but the are paying into medicare/medicaid while illegals are not.
Here is a hypothetical: Two men have heart attacks. Both are uninsured, but the only difference is one is legal and the other is not. Both get emergency care by law. Both drive up costs. What is the difference? The whole life of the legal citizen he has been paying into medicaid/medicare on every paycheck which after making it through the bureaucrats goes to the health care industry. The illegal gives zip. Both get free care, but one payed into a system for years while one did not.
Here is a pertinent quote.
"The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.8

One of the frequent costs to U.S. taxpayers is delivery of babies to illegal alien mothers. A California study put the number of these anchor baby deliveries in the state in 1994 at 74,987, at a cost of $215 million. At that time, those births constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births, and they have grown now to substantially more than half or the annual Medi-Cal budget. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General Hospital’s maternity ward were anchor babies. Medical in 2003 had 760,000 illegal alien beneficiaries, up from 2002, when there were 470,000.9 "

www.fairus.org...

You can't honestly believe that illegal immigrants do not play a huge role in driving up health care costs?
10 Billion Annually in California Alone
usgovinfo.about.com...


Education. The more students you have the more teachers, schools, and supplies you need. If illegal immigrant children goto school, and do not pay taxes the cost must increase for the rest of the population.

www.washingtonpost.com...

www.couplescompany.com...



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
Try driving around with no driver license and praying the whole time that the cops don't pull you over.


A Mexican recently killed a US border guard with an AK-47. He's in even more legal trouble. I really don't see your point.

On the contrary, the illegals have the guts to proudly fly Mexican flags when they come out in force to protest against the desire of US citizens to see the laws of this country enforced.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by xEphon
As I sit here with this knowledge that illegal immigration is actually declining, despite the increasing posts about illegal immigration, I have to wonder what the motivating force is behind the hysterics of many of our posters.

Republicans only know how to win elections by being the hero that saves you from a problem they need to create for you. Gays, guns, and God are not going to work this time around but brown foreigners is hot stuff right now!


Nice to see the Cass Sunstein grads of the internet infiltration school of propaganda is here.

Let us see.

You used a divide and conquer using the partisan attack component.

You used the d and c using the homosexual angle.

You used the gun rhetoric, I do not know where that comes in, maybe the removal of that right?

Used anti religion angle.

And you finish up with the racist angle.



Damn, if you were playing cards, I would say you just brought the Straight Flush.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
But hit and run is bad no matter whether the person is legal or not.


being hit (or having your car damaged) by a person who doesn't carry liability insurance is worse than by somebody who has one. Also, if a person didn't pass proper training, I can imagine their skills may be inferior behind the wheel. And, if the perp flees the country, justice can't be served.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by jam321


But hit and run is bad no matter whether the person is legal or not. Didn't Ted kennedy and charles Wilson run away from accident scenes?


And the former ex presidant wife, Ms. Bush..........LOL, yeah, but they all had insurance, and a valid license.


Why are many Americans driving in the US with no license? Used to be illegals could get a license. At least then, cops would have had their fingerprints and data on file.


Really, I don't know that their are many Americans driving with no license. I'm sure it happens, but where are you getting this from? In the south, I know people drive without them, that have had DUI's, but, they are driving somebody elses vehicle most the time. I am saying this from personal experience...dangit, I know family members that do it. But, they are in a licensed vehicle, and the owner of the policy only needs to claim they did not know about the license issue for uninsured motorist coverage to kick in. How are illegals getting insurance with no valid license?


Grow some nuts
If you could see my nutz you would probably tell me to get surgery and reduce them to normal size.


Ha, well, my friend, I love your sense of humor! Thanks!

edit to clarify on Ms. Bush

Ya, she is in the author circle now, trying to fix her miss deed of running down an ex-boyfriend with her car...........LOL

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Blanca Rose]



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