What the illegal immigration issue is really about...

This is just food for thought, not to start flame wars or any nonsense.

Both inside the borders and out, many don't have an understanding on the knee jerk reaction to this issue. It is a feeling that weaves like a thread throughout society but no one can name the color. Not only is the US dealing with it, but many countries throughout the world. There is a feeling of unease, resentment,and irritation, and you hear statements such as:they are taking our jobs!They are taking advantage!They don't respect us. But I don't think that is the exact sentiment that people are trying to express. All it is tht something is wrong, but people don't know what to call it.
And we have leaders that don't even want to comment, much less diagnose.
Now, I am always on the fence about this. I agree with the people that humans are humans and everyone should be given opportunities. But I also agree that some of the population is taking advantage and is completely disrespectful. Crime and drugs and gangs have become a huge issue. And yes, there is a problem with a specific portion of the population.

Is it because of race? No, not really. It is about culture. There are illegal Canadians here. But Detroit is rampaging with drive by shootings from horrific Canadian gangs. Actually the visual just gave me a chuckle. Maybe there are, but I have never heard of them.

Many don't realize they are hitting the nail on the head when they say it is businesses and corporations that are at fault. But why is that?

Many would argue that a business has a right to a profit. No one argues that. You run,own or manage a business, you have a right to profit. But to what extent?

It is not a coincidence that this issue is heating up at the same time that job outsourcing is heating up. Job insourcing is also heating up. We see people being brought in to take jobs, and jobs being taken out.

Firstly, I think on the most basic level, it feels like a form of betrayel. These companies were given a start here and in Europe. And are now being sent overseas to second and third world countries for cheap labor. Like waking up to find your date gone and without leaving a note.

Secondly, and most importantlly, it is expanding the gap of the classes. It is changing a way of life, all for profit. It is deliberately deteriating a way of life for the middle class, so the upper class can have more money. There is no moral obligation to the nuclear family, or the kid who just graduated college and needs a job. The jobs and money are being taken from the middle class, and now is being distributed among the poor and rich. It is the lowering of the standard of living. To compete, you must settle for less, have a lower quality of life, in order to compete.

Americans have worked hard to come a long way in a short period of time. Women were given the right to vote, we developed labor laws to protect employees. We demanded fair compensation, and we demanded that our families get taken care of if we should be killed on the job. We don't want to have to work till we die standing up at our jobs. We get the education required, and we dedicated ourselves to a business.
It used to be that someone would graduate high school or college, and go work for a company for life. When was the last time you saw a retirement party where a person worked for the same place their entire lives? That is now gone. You can do that if your lucky.
What we are really balking at is a major change into corporate society. And the corporations are winning. Instead of starting a business that supports it own community, and then is supported by that community in return, they hire outside for profit. We have a breakdown in society both local and worldwide where profit is most imporant of all, and some faceless board or vp is behind it. But we don't see them, they are too busy sailing on their massive yachts. All we see are the daylaborers, or the foreigner going to work. So we have no choice but to point the finger at them. They are being taken advantage of because they are willing to live 20 to an apartment and dry their clothes on a mailbox for 2 bucks an hour.
Not only do we see our way of life comprimised for profit, we now have to support those getting paid, but providing benefits for them. We have to pay for the garbage removal, ER services and street maintenance. Not only did the date leave us without a note, they left us the hotel tab to boot, after they ordered breakfast.

So what do we do? learn to live less? Have everyone live in smaller and smaller apartments with more and more people so the rich can buy bigger and bigger yachts? Do we demand the government to start enforcing companies to hire legal labor? Do we stop supporting companies that ship jobs overseas to someone who can work cheaper because they don't have 50k in student loans?

40 percent of the nearly 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States entered the country legally on visas and simply stayed. That means they probably can be caught only at work.

washington post

While it seems that many of illegals are hired as farmers, lets not forget that many of these farms now are corporations. Not only driving out small, American farmers.
Not only that, Americans are paying for that also:

Farming may be the most federally subsidized profession in America. The persistence of farm subsidy programs results from the popular misconception that they stabilize the incomes of poor family farmers who are at the mercy of unpredictable weather and crop prices. Yet a recent U.S. Department of Agriculture report concluded that, "On average, farm households have higher incomes, greater wealth, and lower consumption expenditures than all U.S. households."

linky

The wealthiest 10 percent of American farmers receive 65 percent of all agriculture subsidies

americanthinker

NAFTA, by permitting heavily-subsidized US corn and other agri-business products to compete with small Mexican farmers, has driven the Mexican farmer off the land due to low-priced imports of US corn and other agricultural products. Some 2 million Mexicans have been forced out of agriculture, and many of those that remain are living in desperate poverty. These people are among those that cross the border to feed their families. (Meanwhile, corn-based tortilla prices climbed by 50%. No wonder many so Mexican peasants have called NAFTA their 'death warrant.

link]

AND NOW we have come full circle.

The Roundtable is little known outside Washington, but in 3 decades it has become the nation's most powerful lobby on economic issues. It reflects the views of the biggest U.S. Companies. The Roundtable has shaped the laws governing labor unions, corporations, and financial institutions. It was the prime mover behi9nd the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

the most powerful lobby

Sometimes the world seems to big and disasterously small at the same time.

SHHH, you'll only make people come in here raging about illegals. It's easier to blame brown people then the corporations that are the major cause of the problem.

reply to post by SpectreDC


*laughs* but that is what I am trying to point out. The "brown" people is who we see. And a lot of them. But how do you put a face to some board or ceo that we have no idea who they are? You can't get mad at what you can't see. it is a complicated issue. And there is more going on then meets the eye.

I could of carried it further. If you look at the list of those on the Business Roundtable, you will see a lot of companies involved in the economic meltdown. hhhhhhmmmmm

Not only that, a lot of them petitioned to make it hard to for people to form unions and have other labor laws passed.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by nixie_nox]

reply to post by nixie_nox


Have you been in this section lately? Do I need to make a highlight reel of the rampant idiocy that has perverted this site due to this issue?

All of this has been said before. All of it. But for many of these people it is easier to be arm chair racists yelling at brown people for all their problems when it's a well documented fact that it is the corporations facilitating the problem and the corporations who control the government that have refused to defend our borders.

Blaming brown people is easy for them, even doing something about it by glaring at these people as if they are all illegal. They don't deal with the corporations because it takes actual effort to do so. And they have none of that effort. They're as "lazy" as they perceive brown people being. They've awoken from their apathy and have been driven to a polarization that can not be reasoned with because the basis of the polarizing view point is unreasonable.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Your making me depressed. Here I thought I was coming up with some original and interesting information.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

Your making me depressed. Here I thought I was coming up with some original and interesting information.

Nope, it has all been said before. The people who continue yelling about illegals are either too stupid to comprehend they aren't the source of the problem or are racists who just want a platform that they feel justifies their hateful rhetoric.

It's why I've decided to change my tactic and just ignore them, as much as they ignore the true issues at hand.

your OP inquiry & rant is opined like the Tail-is-Wagging-the-Dog

the massive influx of illegals have taxed the small system that the Americans had reserved for the legal population that fell on hard times... not for the waves of illegals that expect heaven-on-earth for free


the elites in the corporate world only started offshoring jobs because that method of getting a 'return on profits' was needed because of the multitudes of illegals that flooded the meager safety-net of food/housing/health that was only designed for perhaps a-million luckless Americans not the 14 million who squat & poach the USA system for all the freebies and advantages their own system denied them...

the USA may have been once a Mecca, but it is now a sewage stabilization pond that stinks


jobs, the homeland, & dare i say the motherland systems thast were fine tuned for the native born peoples and the indiginous nations within the borders of the USA should find that job outsourcing and other operations that negatively affect the 'systems' of normal living are both Traitorous And Treasonous to the homeland/motherland


i do agree that the Political and Corporate Elites need taken down, tarred-&-feathered,
and the illegal squatters should be indentified, singled out, refused 'services' from the system regardless of their standing/gains/status/rug rats who are but future 'census figures' for the Political elites---if not actual 'Voters'

[edit on 15-5-2010 by St Udio]

OOPS[/quote

[edit on 15-5-2010 by St Udio]

I agree with you. The corporations and subsidiaries of such that are allowed to propogate an under-the-table wage system where illegals without labor protection are paid hideously low wages are the problem.

The question remains; until these metaphorical sodomites are drug before the Senate Oversight Committee and crucified like they work for AIG, what are we to do? Are we to do nothing, and hope the problems that we currently face with illegal immigration don't get worse?

It's a multi-tiered problem that requires a variety of solutions - and in as much as some of the solutions deal with the above, some will invariably have to deal with the illegal immigrants themselves.

The farm I live on makes over a million dollars a year. The owner lives in a big house with a pool. He has a mercedes in the garage. He buys expensive items like they're nothing. There's a Jag parked next to my car. I've never met a poor farmer probably because these major farmers buy up all the little farms.

[edit on 5/15/2010 by Nemesis0123]

reply to post by Nemesis0123


yet, these farms continuued to be subsized. Why are we subsidizing large farms? The program was originally started to help poor, stricken farmers after the depression.

If the farmers are no longer suffering, why do they need such cheap labor?

Originally posted by Nemesis0123
The farm I live on makes over a million dollars a year. The owner lives in a big house with a pool. He has a mercedes in the garage. He buys expensive items like they're nothing. There's a Jag parked next to my car. I've never met a poor farmer probably because these major farmers buy up all the little farms.

[edit on 5/15/2010 by Nemesis0123]

sounds like the west side of Phoenix spread


But to address this Populist Theme being an undercurrent in this and other threads

don't you know that this mild insurrection-of-thought is right now being played by the MSM

Just what is the reason for all these 'Rambo' marathons?
why does the MSM play (along with Ramboon 1 channel) the Marine with wrestler fame 'Cena' opposite the [get even-with-the-elite-establishment] shows of the Rmbo series

DUH
its because the MSM puppet masters want you to expend all your hate & fire in being placated by these type of morality films---
they are trying to 'diffuse' you and the situation, so you will feel that the real-life situation has been addressed by the film that arouses your blood lust & then satiates your blood-lust in the 2 hr. version (with an appropriate ending) appropriate to the puppet masters


lets wake up people & read between the lines at the clear manipulation going on beneath our noses

It is about exploitation &

Human Trafficking.

Dirty Employers advertise in Mexican & El Salvadoran papers to get illegal workers, because they can treat them like dirt in a way no legal American worker would put up with.

While the trafficking is generally by consent of the illegals or [self-endangering] self-trafficking,

There are other victims. Namely all the citizens & legal workers of all ethnicities in the United States.

And what all the lefties don't want to admit is that they are sponsoring human trafficking, as well as labor exploitation. And there is a lot of anti-white racism, including neurotic, on their side, and yet they are the ones bandying about the term 'racists'.
And they completely undermine & debase all the working class people of these United States.
They want to completely blow off all the legitimate claims of grievances.
They cry 'racism' & completely ignore that labor rights advocates fought & died for some kind of economic justice in this nation.

And that kind of elitism trashing of the working people of America yet again, just pisses the hell out of me.
I have worked a lot of menial jobs. Gay & with no college education there just wasn't any other freaking option.

And supposedly 'liberal' people who are so generously degrading YOUR citizenship rights & privileges

are enjoining the now deeply entrenched undermining of labor at every turn.

These lefties are not humanitarians, they are shallow, empty, mindless trash that is on the side of dirty employers.

they trade away YOUR citizenship rights & privileges the way congress self aggrandizes itself using YOUR tax dollars.

I think Reagan was the worst betrayal of American working people & most of them STILL don't get it.

Human trafficking amnesty will probably pass like this garbage that was called a healthcare bill.

And if a large number of people don't stand up & speak up & past the corporate media spin machine to their political officials & to the public at large, it is just going to keep on happening over & over again.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by slank]

Originally posted by slank
It is about exploitation &

Human Trafficking.

Dirty Employers advertise in Mexican & El Salvadoran papers to get illegal workers, because they can treat them like dirt in a way no legal American worker would put up with.

While the trafficking is generally by consent of the illegals or [self-endangering] self-trafficking,

There are other victims. Namely all the citizens & legal workers of all ethnicities in the United States.

And what all the lefties don't want to admit is that they are sponsoring human trafficking, as well as labor exploitation. And there is a lot of anti-white racism, including neurotic, on their side, and yet they are the ones bandying about the term 'racists'.
And they completely undermine & debase all the working class people of these United States.
They want to completely blow off all the legitimate claims of grievances.
They cry 'racism' & completely ignore that labor rights advocates fought & died for some kind of economic justice in this nation.

And that kind of elitism trashing of the working people of America yet again, just pisses the hell out of me.
I have worked a lot of menial jobs. Gay & with no college education there just wasn't any other freaking option.

And supposedly 'liberal' people who are so generously degrading YOUR citizenship rights & privileges

are enjoining the now deeply entrenched undermining of labor at every turn.

These lefties are not humanitarians, they are shallow, empty, mindless trash that is on the side of dirty employers.

they trade away YOUR citizenship rights & privileges the way congress self aggrandizes itself using YOUR tax dollars.

I think Reagan was the worst betrayal of American working people & most of them STILL don't get it.

Human trafficking amnesty will probably pass like this garbage that was called a healthcare bill.

And if a large number of people don't stand up & speak up & past the corporate media spin machine to their political officials & to the public at large, it is just going to keep on happening over & over again.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by slank]

How does it feel to be one of the few people who have addressed the actual problems instead of either mindlessly yelling at illegals or foolishly thinking that we should just grant amnesty to all illegals?


[edit on 15-5-2010 by SpectreDC]

[edit on 15-5-2010 by SpectreDC]

Originally posted by St Udio


don't you know that this mild insurrection-of-thought is right now being played by the MSM

Just what is the reason for all these 'Rambo' marathons?
why does the MSM play (along with Ramboon 1 channel) the Marine with wrestler fame 'Cena' opposite the [get even-with-the-elite-establishment] shows of the Rmbo series

I refuse to watch that crap, just because of who is in the movie. It would be like sitting through re-programming, aka - "A Clockwork Orange."

DUH
its because the MSM puppet masters want you to expend all your hate & fire in being placated by these type of morality films---
they are trying to 'diffuse' you and the situation, so you will feel that the real-life situation has been addressed by the film that arouses your blood lust & then satiates your blood-lust in the 2 hr. version (with an appropriate ending) appropriate to the puppet masters

My impression is that most people contributing to ATS stay far away from the television for the reasons you listed.

So explain again, how this crap has anything to do with illegal immigrants?

lets wake up people & read between the lines at the clear manipulation going on beneath our noses

Go back to your television set. You have no clue!

edit typo

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Blanca Rose]

Wow, almost a full page after my post and I can't even get someone to answer my question. I guess dealing with hypotheticals is easier than dealing with a very real situation...

reply to post by Legion2112


Well if by "you" you mean Joe Public then you really aren't going to do anything. I mean you can keep begging the Feds to do their job or the states to inact laws like arizona so that local LEO can help the feds in their jobs. Write your congressman.

As I have said a few times in similar threads. Six amnesties have been handed out since 1986. Citizens complained but, much like the recent health care bill, were ignored.

Short of a revolution, violent or non-violent, the opinion of the people of the US will not be taken into account.

Edited - for clarity.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by daskakik]

reply to post by Legion2112


Kinda along the lines of the same questions I was asking. What to do what to do....


But it is tough to come up with solutions that doesn't involve government regulation.

First, I think locally people should stop supporting companies that hire illegals.
Support larger American companies that are made in America and do less outsourcing.

Start petitioning local and state governments to take action. As AZ has opend the door.

But this doesn't mean a total exodus of latin peoples. If they want to stay, pay up the back taxes or go, or serve in the military for X # of years.

It doesn't mean that people can't come on legitimate work visas. But those work visas need to be tracked.

reply to post by nixie_nox


I hear ya. I live near a fairly small city in the SE that is fiercely territorial when it comes to large corporations. They won't even let chain businesses near the downtown area, and have at least three times in the last year denied work permits for companies outside the downtown area that had a pretty bad stigma for hiring illegals... now whether that's because of the practice of hiring illegals or not wanting a large corporation near a swath of privately owned businesses is up for debate. It is however, a start...

Ultimately though I don't see any way around some sort of governmental oversight or regulation... ignoring the illegals themselves for a moment, the only successful way you can regulate a corporation into doing the right thing is if a corrupt politician stands to lose enough constituents by doing nothing. Hence you get AIG, Enron, et al. Sadly, unless state governments start taking up the mantle, the Feds are our only choice... we can protest all we want, but unless those protests are backed up with teeth I don't see these leeches changing their hiring practices...

As far as work visas go, tracking them IMO would in all liklihood be more efficient if done on a state level... all we'd need the Feds for then is a central database. In whatever way it's done, tracking is critical otherwise we'd wind up in the same situation we are now.

Plausible solutions are difficult when dealing with issues this large in scope.



[edit on 16-5-2010 by Legion2112]

nixie_nox:

Many would argue that a business has a right to a profit. No one argues that.

IF they are playing by the RULES.

BUT they DON'T play by the rules.

They break the rules & the laws at every turn.
They get crooked & corrupt congress to completely rewrite the rules, essentially legalizing their crimes, notably telecom illegal spying & releasing personal information.

When the only object is money, ie. pure capitalism all other considerations,
such as having & preserving a decent world &/or community get thrown away on hyped up psychosis. A really perverse form of egotism.

Hiring illegals is against the law. So they break it.
They are the very companies putting ads in foreign papers to lure illegals here, just so they can exploit them.

Further, since the large corporations own all the media they spin all their supposed news [as well as neglecting entire issues altogether] in the favor of the lowest form of venal profiteering.

Unchecked greed not only isn't 'good',

it is suicidal.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by slank]