posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 12:27 PM
Back to the original premise of this thread, Did "Iesous" (R. Yehoshua bar Yosef, the Galilean) rise from the dead (or, was "Iesoius" raised from
The problem of what was originally meant by "resurrection of Iesous" by the early disciples is made more complex partly because of the original
language of the first believers in R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jeeezuzz") as the Messiah actually spoke a completely different language
(Galilean Aramaic) from the text of the gospels (Koine Greek from around AD90), and they also had vastly different theological PRECONCEPTIONS than
Greek Speaking converts.
The word for "risen" for example in Aramaic is the same word as "exalted": so what was probably a harmless little saying like: "The SON of MAN
must be DEBASED before he is EXALTED" was translated into Greek as "The Son of Man must SUFFER before he is RISEN".
There is also the problem of "plays on words" in the Aramaic tradition. The Aramaic "Cevodah" means "SUFFERING": the Aramaic "Cavodah" means
So when you hear phrases like "The Son of Man must SUFFER before he ENTERS INTO HIS GLORY", the play on words in the Aramaic is completely lost both
in Greek and in modern English Translations of the Gospels.
The idea of a RIGHTEOUS person not "tasting death" was a Jewish idea which we find in the dead sea scroll corpus, written 250 BC to AD 68, so these
Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic documents were being written during part of the lifetime of "Jeeezuz" in Palestine.
The idea that IN THE LAST DAY (or "ON THE THIRD DAY" which was supposed to mean "Judgement Day") the RIGHTEOUS MARTYRS would be the first to
"rise" has an early echo in Hezekiel chapter 37 (the Valley of Dry Bones), where YHWH commands Hezekiel the prophet to cast a spell over the bones
of dead Jewish martyrs and cause them to put flesh back on them, and breathe into them the breath of life from the four winds, so that they can stand
up and form a great "army" to fight the anti-Israelite invaders.
That the "King Messiah ben David "was supposed to rise from the dead was a myth which predated "Jeeezuz" as well as post-dated him well into the
Middle Ages among the Rebbes.
We catch a glimpse of the Righteous Martyrs being Raised to Life in the Christian book of Revelation (i.e. the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite,
written during the Jewish Revolt of AD 66 which predicted that Israel would win: NEWSFLASH: they lost !) See Revelation Chapter 11: 1-18 where the
bodies of 2 slain Messiah type martyrs are miraculously raised back to life (i.e. resurrected) after 3 and a half days of lying in the gutter unburied
and then raised back up to heaven (i.e. ascended).
The 3.5 days of course comes from the book of Daniel chapter 12 : "There shall be a Time, Two Times and Half a Time" before these things come to
Some would claim that the Empty Tomb which the women found on "[Sunday] Morning, the 1st day of the [lit.] week[s]" was proof that the body of R.
Yehoshua bar Yosef was somehow "resurrected" (whatever that means). All it really means is that the body was not there, and just because you have a
missing corpse does not mean you have a resurrection. It means you have a missing corpse.
They never found Mozart's body either, and he was far more famous that Jesus was in his lifetime at the time of his death..!
It is possible that the women (whatever their exact identities were) who discovered the empty tomb drew conclusions of a"resurrection" from some
Old Testament Prophecies...."remember how he used to say...." but even the gospel of John said, "but up until then she did not know the Saying
which said that J. should rise from the dead...
" so somehow the prophecies about him "rising" weren't as well known before his death among the disciples--despite gospels like Mark sticking in
such "prophecies" in three specific places in his gospel---almost as if they don't fit into the story.
Some of the OT prophecies include:
Exod 9:16 I have raised you up to show them my Power
1 Sam 2:8 he shall raise the Poor One up from the Dust
Isaiah 52:14 Behold my Servant will prosper: he shall be raised up and lifted high: yea he shall be highly exalted
Deut 18:15 YHWH shall Raise Up a Prophet like unto Me, Listen to Him!
and there are about 50 others that the early Christians used as proof texts for a resurrection of their Teacher ("thou wilt not allow your Holy One
to see Corruption") etc.
The other linguistic problem is the word "opthe" in the gospels: the Greek for "was manifested untoo": people in the gospels don't see Iesous
after the "resurrection", rather it is the passive tense of the Greek verb which is being used here: "he was seen by them", "he was manifested
to them" which is different than saying "they saw him". Thus he only "appears" to those who are ready to "see" him, and no record of him
"appearing" to non believers (i.e. "then he was manifested unto 500 brothers at once" Paul once wrote in I Corinthians although no one else
apparently knows of this story of his).
The word "opthe" seems to be related to the verbs used in the Greek LXX version of Exodus chapter 3 with the burning bush "which appeared to Moses
as fire but was not consumed..."
Bishop John Shelby Spong of NJ wrote a book in 1994 called Resurrection Myth or Reality. It briefly touches on these important linguistic points.
There are other problems with a clear understanding of what the early chuch regarded as Resurrection (not the least of which were the parallell
resurrections of Attis and Mithra and other gods among the mystery religions which Christianity had to compete with for converts).
I'll save that for another posting