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"They come here for a better life" and "Jobs Americans Won't Do"

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posted on May, 15 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 


You're right, not all are illegal, as I've also found that some Mexicans who speak little English really are Americans just their parents didn't see that teaching them English was vital to their education.

But anyways.. Migrant farm working is something that SHOULD have visas, and more of them... any kind of seasonal traveling job that there isn't a lot of people to do in America should be offered to migrant workers. But once they are done, they should go home. Which I've also found with some of the guys I've met with, they do go home. The USD goes a loonnnggg way in a small Mexican town.

Some times I've contemplated saving up as much as I can, sell my house and buy a house on the Mexican coast.. to bad Mexican immigration laws make ours look laughingly like a walk in the park.




posted on May, 15 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


If Mexico's Immigrations laws were as lax as ours, I would suggest we all go in groups and take up some of their beach front property. It's beautiful down there.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:02 PM
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Why wouldn't you want to legalize these hard working people? You make them pay taxes and a fee for the paper work. After a while they too can become US Citizens and vote. We need to do a better job at protecting our border, but it’s inhuman the way we deport hard working people back to their native countries empty handed like if they were animals. Some of these appreciate the United States more than many US Citizens because they appreciate how advance we are and how our government is able to keep order unlike many of their 3rd world countries. The people that are here—most likely already have a job, if we let them become residents or at least let them stay here legally; they would have to pay taxes. You don’t need to be here legally to go to a public school for free in the United States; therefore their families aren’t paying taxes to pay for their kids studies. Then after going to school in the United States for 12 years, they can’t go to college because they are here illegally—even if they have a 6.0 GPA with all AP classes.
Something needs to be done.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Agreed


Our minimum wage is low compared to the cost of living anyways. Take any coastal state...I'll use California for example.

$8.00 an hour to live here??? You would have to have a few roommates to just make it. If you're single, you have to work 80 hours a week to pay bills and save some money. $10 dollars and hour will get you a crappy studio apartment, and after all the bills, maybe $100 dollars leftover to save.

$12 dollars an hour? same thing $15 dollars an hour...you might start cutting it and be able to live like a normal person...if you are SINGLE.


The problem is, is that the single male/female...who isn't living with 6 people to a home and try to be INDEPENDENT...cannot cut it here at entry level, which is what many have had to do in hard times.

REPEAT....a SINGLE American cannot cut it against the saving power of a household of cousins, uncles, sisters, brothers, friends, and a whole family unit.

Asking Americans to take cheaper wages includes asking us to lower almost every standard of living to the lowest common denominator to the level of any Illegal Immigrant. That is why whole towns become a reflection of whatever Illegal demographic that invades it. The common denominator is always at play.


ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is also a doorway to the slow drop to the bottom of the barrel. This is not a victimless crime in that way. The "American Standard" is gone.

An American should NOT have to compete with an Illegal for wages, especially when those wages are already to low compared to the cost of living and inflation. We're getting screwed by the Government in one direction, and usurped by Illegals from the other.

When someone says that "you should take the job for less"...what they're saying is

"YOU SHOULD LOWER YOUR STANDARDS FOR A FOREIGN INVADER USURPING THE WORKFORCE WHO IS HERE ILLEGALLY...AND CHANGE YOUR WHOLE WAY OF LIFE FOR THEIR CRIME"

It's absurd.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by ae69ae
 


My dear, big interest in this nation wants illegal immigration to stay just the way it is . . .

This is more than just a social economic issue, this a political issue.

Amnesty was given to Illegals immigrant by the Regan administration, why do think the migration issue was never enforced by laws even when we have them? because that is not the issue about immigration when it comes to the ruling class in the US.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 




Yes, I agree it is not a 'crime' technically. That's why I included misdemeanors and 'breaking the law' in my original post.

But as far as it being victimless....I could post another full length post about that alone. Illegal Immigration has no DIRECT victims, but I would propose the entirety of it has killed a lot of people indirectly.

A RESOURCE based crime is never victimless when the effect is felt years later.

It's a form of Genocide but slow....methodical....and under the radar.


I hate people like you, because people like you usually make such comments as the above quote. It is very misleading. Very ignorant.

Let me tell you something:

Because you SIR is alive, someone else is the victim of your life. Just because you are living, someone else is suffering.

As you claim in the above quote that it has created many victims indirectly.

You living has created many victims indirectly, just because you don't know it doesn't mean your life hasn't.

For example, the job that you own, you have caused someone else to be the victim, because you own that job. If you didn't own that job, one of the unemployed % of America wouldn't be victimized. So if you die, or move to Mexico, you would actually help victimize less people.

Don't make such retarded arguments.

It only comes back on you..



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by ae69ae
Why wouldn't you want to legalize these hard working people? You make them pay taxes and a fee for the paper work. After a while they too can become US Citizens and vote. We need to do a better job at protecting our border, but it’s inhuman the way we deport hard working people back to their native countries empty handed like if they were animals. Some of these appreciate the United States more than many US Citizens because they appreciate how advance we are and how our government is able to keep order unlike many of their 3rd world countries. The people that are here—most likely already have a job, if we let them become residents or at least let them stay here legally; they would have to pay taxes. You don’t need to be here legally to go to a public school for free in the United States; therefore their families aren’t paying taxes to pay for their kids studies. Then after going to school in the United States for 12 years, they can’t go to college because they are here illegally—even if they have a 6.0 GPA with all AP classes.
Something needs to be done.


What is the obsession with the "paying taxes" statement. I've heard this rhetoric many times yet don't understand. The Government misuses our tax money anyway at the Federal level, they squander it.

At the State level they squander it too. But usually, the taxes payed into the system are distributed equally and proportional to the States needs.

Example: If a State has 1 Million people, their taxes usually pay for the NEED of 1 Million people...and so on.

Adding ILLEGALS to a tax roll doesn't really mean anything. It just means more tax payers.

So why not invite all of the world to just come in and "PAY TAXES"? Let's invite 300 MILLION Chinese to come and "pay taxes". Let's invite the whole world in too and just let them become citizens and pay taxes, after they ILLEGALLY enter, to show the world the America is a revolving door?


I never really get this argument and it's borderline insanity to say such a thing...as if "paying taxes" is the issue.

And what does it matter if they PAY TAXES when they end up skirting the system anyways and getting all the FREE BENEFITS of the system?

THe whole AMNESTY issue is exactly that. Making them 'tax payers' after they illegally live here for years or months, and suck the system dry in services? And spit in the face of every LEGAL IMMIGRANT that did it the right way? What does that say to them? That everything they did was in vain?

Are we to tell the whole planet that America is one huge shopping mall open for business?

Do people even read history books and realize how INSANE a policy like that is?

Jesus F*CKING lord....do people have any INSIGHT these days?



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 




Yes, I agree it is not a 'crime' technically. That's why I included misdemeanors and 'breaking the law' in my original post.

But as far as it being victimless....I could post another full length post about that alone. Illegal Immigration has no DIRECT victims, but I would propose the entirety of it has killed a lot of people indirectly.

A RESOURCE based crime is never victimless when the effect is felt years later.

It's a form of Genocide but slow....methodical....and under the radar.


I hate people like you, because people like you usually make such comments as the above quote. It is very misleading. Very ignorant.

Let me tell you something:

Because you SIR is alive, someone else is the victim of your life. Just because you are living, someone else is suffering.

As you claim in the above quote that it has created many victims indirectly.

You living has created many victims indirectly, just because you don't know it doesn't mean your life hasn't.

For example, the job that you own, you have caused someone else to be the victim, because you own that job. If you didn't own that job, one of the unemployed % of America wouldn't be victimized. So if you die, or move to Mexico, you would actually help victimize less people.

Don't make such retarded arguments.

It only comes back on you..


Well, in a Philosophical/ Scientific/ Anthropological thread.... I guess we could discuss the indirect consequences of BEING ALIVE to other living beings....ergo the "Butterfly Effect".

But we are talking about the EFFECTS of Illegal Immigration on U.S. citizens and how it's methodical use to break down Sovereign Societies has been used through the ages by Elites....which is not 'victimless'.

And you hate people like me? Well that's funny, I agree that there are indirect consequences for actions...just like you believe. So thanks for hating someone who holds your view also.


Nice job sparky.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Furthermore..an slow INVASION into a nation by a foreign force (Illegals) can do more harm to a country over time than standing armies. That is a DIRECT threat...which has INDIRECT consequences that are usually seen too LATE....example of where we are at now.

If you are American...your Government is ALLOWING your NATION( Genocide) to be structurally compromised and destroyed.

Genocide against Americans...allowed by special interests and the Federal Government....through Illegal Immigration and all of the INDIRECT effects from it.


You are being moved out, looted, socially engineered, displaced, dispersed, a watered down slowly and methodically.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by Blazer
 


Nice chain email.

Like I said in the post which uses this chain email as the basis for an opinion, find me an illegal that gets paid 15 dollars a hour and I'll send you my left leg.


Yeah, a guy my husband works with (commercial construction) is a 20 year illegal (with his wife and a few anchor babies). His salary was about $80,000 a year. They own two houses, many cars and two, very old, very stolen social security numbers. They were busted about 6 months ago and he was told to produce papers or be deported. He told my husband it was easier to just give the coyote $15,000 and take a few weeks to visit his family after being deported. Yeah, he's back and competing with my husband for the same jobs.

You can keep your leg.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 


As I said, you owning a job has created a victim. This is no philosophy.

And please don't bring the Elites in to this lol, just because most in ATS believe in a group of Elites doesn't mean you can use that word to justify every comment you make.

By the way, I don't hate you , these are words I'm writing, I hate you through words. Other than this thread I don't hate you, because in another thread you might write something that I will love you for, but through words



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Isn't that what our ancestors and the founding fathers did???

They didn't like how their country was being run...instead of trying to change their own country...the ran to the new world...killed off the natives, pushed them out of their homelands and created "America".

And now you are complaining that people that don't stay in their country and try to change it are wrong?


Yes.

Our ancestors built something out of raw land gumption and grit. I don't see the illegal aliens improving any raw land. They come here like ants at a picnic.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


So you admit that you don't "hate me" you just WROTE that you hate me.

So basically, you are displaying doublethink and signs of being adept to using split personality on the "Interwebs". A phenomenon of the Internet Era I guess?

Split personality and words not really meaning what they say.

You should call Karl Rove for a job.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
reply to post by oozyism
 


Furthermore..an slow INVASION into a nation by a foreign force (Illegals) can do more harm to a country over time than standing armies. That is a DIRECT threat...which has INDIRECT consequences that are usually seen too LATE....example of where we are at now.

If you are American...your Government is ALLOWING your NATION( Genocide) to be structurally compromised and destroyed.

Genocide against Americans...allowed by special interests and the Federal Government....through Illegal Immigration and all of the INDIRECT effects from it.


You are being moved out, looted, socially engineered, displaced, dispersed, a watered down slowly and methodically.




All of what you said is very hard to prove, just like it is very hard to prove who lost the job once you got your job. But since you took it for granted, you never cared. Please tell me you did?

Sorry, that is just the way it is, if you feel like there is a genocide, you have to prove it, like your name says.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
reply to post by oozyism
 


So you admit that you don't "hate me" you just WROTE that you hate me.

So basically, you are displaying doublethink and signs of being adept to using split personality on the "Interwebs". A phenomenon of the Internet Era I guess?

Split personality and words not really meaning what they say.

You should call Karl Rove for a job.


I have 20 different personalities, each drug i snort, i smoke, i inject, i drink gives me a different personality.

Don't tempt me ^^



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
reply to post by oozyism
 


Furthermore..an slow INVASION into a nation by a foreign force (Illegals) can do more harm to a country over time than standing armies. That is a DIRECT threat...which has INDIRECT consequences that are usually seen too LATE....example of where we are at now.

If you are American...your Government is ALLOWING your NATION( Genocide) to be structurally compromised and destroyed.

Genocide against Americans...allowed by special interests and the Federal Government....through Illegal Immigration and all of the INDIRECT effects from it.


You are being moved out, looted, socially engineered, displaced, dispersed, a watered down slowly and methodically.




All of what you said is very hard to prove, just like it is very hard to prove who lost the job once you got your job. But since you took it for granted, you never cared. Please tell me you did?

Sorry, that is just the way it is, if you feel like there is a genocide, you have to prove it, like your name says.


The harm of Illegal Immigration is self evident through accumulated data from multiple sources too broad to list here.

It is SELF EVIDENT to be a form of Genocide.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism






I have 20 different personalities, each drug i snort, i smoke, i inject, i drink gives me a different personality.

Don't tempt me ^^



You sound like a classy girl. The kind I want to meet my mother.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by zenjewel
 


I can show "SpectreDC" HUNDREDS of Illegal that make over $15 dollars an hour. I can show him THOUSANDS that have desk jobs with phones and suits, ties, two SUVs in the parking lot, a nice home.


The ignorants FOOLS here don't realize how wealthy the Illegals that work in the fashion, music, and movie industry here are.

There are stage hands and movie industry techs here that make loads of money.

Fashion industry workers that make at least 80,000 per year for their knowledge of clothing manufacturing.

I knew TWO DJ's here in Los Angeles that mad over $100,000 per year. And they lived in the hills.

The Illegal that are doing the "low paying" jobs, are the ones that are fresh off" the boat" or just crossed the river. The Illegals that have been here for years are big business owners.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by paranoiaFTW
Sure, lets get rid of illegals. Now, who wants to crawl down in sewer to clear a backup of feces?


I will, if I didn't have a job at the time.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 


Self evident?

Then it should be easy for you to prove genocide, if it is indeed self evident.

The funny part of this whole discussion is, that you forget about the good side of illegal Aliens, that is the reason why I forgot about the good side of you having a job.

See just like illegal aliens your job is causing someone else to suffer, or to be the victim. But just like illegal aliens, you having that job doesn't just create that negative effect, but also positive.

If you just focus on one side, and tell me, that is the truth and the whole truth, then you are wasting my time and your own.

And if you are gonna insist that this is genocide, and that the elites are doing it or what ever, please provide evidence..

If you can't find already existing evidence, then please write a report, with numbers, hard facts, post one copy on ATS, send the other copy to the government, or print thousands of copies and give it to normal people around you. Don't forget to tell those people that this is self evident.



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