A question for Atheist.

reply to post by Loken68

Anybody here ever poked a stick into a fire ant mound? Same result's when you question a atheist.

Its not because its atheism its because its religion. Religion, unfortunately, does just a good job dividing people as it does uniting them. Most of the people who have disagreed with you have done so on the grounds that the Bible does not mention a Rapture. The Rapture is based upon an interpretation of a few vague verses and really doesn't have a solid biblical basis. But maybe that's just the atheist fire ant in me talking

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Actually it's mentioned a lot

Ok here we go:
1. "Rapture", in the context of eschatology, is an English word derived from the Latin rapio, "caught up" [1] as found in the Vulgate rendering of
1 Thessalonians 4:17.[2][3]-Wiki

The rapture is an event that will take place sometime in the near future. Jesus will come in the air, catch up all Christians from the earth, and then return to heaven with the Church. We believe this event will take place before the tribulation.

The teaching of the rapture is most clearly presented by Paul in the first books and Thessalonians and Corinthians:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thes. 4:16-18).

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality" (1 Cor. 15:51-53).

In these passage Paul informs his readers that living Christians at the time of the rapture will be reunited with those who have died in Christ before them. In 1 Thes. 4:17 the English phrase "caught up" translates from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to seize upon with force" or "to snatch up." This word is used 14 times in the Greek New Testament in a variety of ways.

Sometimes the New Testament uses harpazo with the sense of "stealing," "carrying off," or "dragging away" (Matthew 12:29; John 10:12). It also can have the meaning of "to lead away forcibly" (John 6:15; 10:28,29; Acts 23:10; Jude 23). However, for our purposes, a third usage is significant. This usage is that of God"s Spirit carrying someone away. We see this usage illustrated in Acts 8:39 where Philip, upon completion of the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch, is raptured or "caught up" and divinely transported from the desert to the coastal town of Azotus. Similarly, the church will, in a moment of time, be taken from earth to heaven. It is not surprising that contemporary author Hal Lindsey has called this unique event "The Great Snatch."

People who like to figure these things out claim that "the twinkling of an eye" (1 Corinthians 15:52) is about one-thousandth of a second. When Paul says that all Christians who are alive at the time of the rapture will be changed "in a flash," he uses the Greek word atomos, from which we get our word "atom." The rapture will take place in the smallest division of time- one "atom" of time. In a flash, every living follower of Christ will be gone.

There is wide agreement among those who study Bible prophecy that several passages of Scripture teach a future resurrection of deceased church members, a sudden gathering of those who are still alive at that time, and a "catching away" of these people into heaven. This expected "catching away" is usually called the Rapture. Some call it the Rapture of the Church. But while there is wide agreement that the Rapture will happen, there are different opinions about when it will happen in relation to the Tribulation Period. Most experts believe the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation Period. Their belief is called the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory. A small minority of experts believe the Rapture will occur at the middle of the Tribulation Period and their belief is called the Mid-Tribulation Rapture Theory. Another group believes the Rapture will occur at the end of the Tribulation period and their belief is called the Post-Tribulation Rapture Theory.

Rapture critics like to claim that the word "rapture" is not located in the Bible. It may not be in the King James, but the word "rapture" is found in the Bible, if you have the Latin Vulgate produced by Jerome in the early 400s. The Vulgate was the main Bible of the medieval Western Church until the Reformation. It continues to this day as the primary Latin translation of the Roman Catholic Church.

It was Protestants who introduced the word "rapture" into the English language from the Latin raeptius. It was Jerome's Vulgate that translated the original Greek verb harpazo used by Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Thes. 4:17, which is usually translated into English with the phrase "caught up." The leading Greek Lexicon says that harpazo means "snatch, seize, i.e., take suddenly and vehemently." This is the same meaning of the Latin word rapio "to seize, snatch, tear away." It should not be surprising to anyone, that an English word was developed from the Latin which we use today known as "rapture."



[edit on 15-5-2010 by Loken68]

Obviously Deathshield & Loken68 are enamored of the idea of 'the Rapture'.

It would appear pivotal to your brains.

Oh, i am so sorry i forgot to be all terrified, scared & worried.

Please, next time tell me i am supposed to be all frightened & quaking in my boots. Otherwise i won't know what your religious psychobabble is all about.

I guess i am too worried about global warming & overpopulation,

you know,

the REAL verifiable, scientific facts of life, not some superstitious fantasies.

pardon me please, NOT.

Originally posted by slank
Obviously Deathshield & Loken68 are enamored of the idea of 'the Rapture'.


I guess i am too worried about global warming & overpopulation,
the REAL verifiable, scientific facts of life, not some superstitious fantasies.

pardon me please, NOT.

Imagine that those things are found in the Bible too, And they also point to the thread's topic. Thanks for the help.

The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given power to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.—Revelation 16:8-9

reply to post by Loken68


Dear Loken68

“Beam me up Scotty”

Unfortunately for me if there was a biblical rapture I don't think what I would do would be relevant to what would ensue. Your god is who would determine my fate. However if a "biblical rapture" were to happen I'd most certainly want to understand why I went to heaven, or what I did wrong.

p.s.
Unsure of whether or not this is true, but I've never heard of faith as being a requirement to enter heaven. What I mean is simple, those that are pure, regardless of their beliefs are forgiven for their most selfless sin. Being a good person because you choose to instead of being a good person your afraid is probably twice as earnest.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by captainbitter]

reply to post by captainbitter


Dear captainbitter

No No No you have it all wrong.

You can be a bad as you like so long as you go to your Roman catholic church on Sunday and put money in the collection plate.

Then you ask the priest to forgive you therefore you are guaranteed entry into heaven.

How could you miss understand that???


[edit on 15-5-2010 by MAC269]

reply to post by captainbitter


Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

reply to post by MAC269


Sorry mate, it's after bar close. I must not be thinking clearly. This is exactly what I was trying to address though. Where is the line drawn. It isn't very clear cut, I want to know what my restrictions are. I'm a man who has sex with many men. I guess I better hit up the church and give em all I got.

reply to post by Loken68


My honest question is simply what do you believe? Do you think all those that do not have faith yet live and honest and moral life yet do not believe in your god are doomed to an eternity in hell? With the little understanding of the christian faith that I have, the above is what I can assume. Unfortunately this is what in the end pushes me away from this faith.

Originally posted by captainbitter
reply to post by Loken68

 

My honest question is simply what do you believe? Do you think all those that do not have faith yet live and honest and moral life yet do not believe in your god are doomed to an eternity in hell? With the little understanding of the christian faith that I have, the above is what I can assume. Unfortunately this is what in the end pushes me away from this faith.

Yes

reply to post by captainbitter


Dear captainbitter

Now we get to the point there is FAITH and there is the Church.

Not by any means the same thing.

I feel that not only was Jesus a very real person all those years ago but he taut a very good way of life. Which the Church has nothing what so ever to do with. Not as it was then in 325AD and certainly not as it is today.

reply to post by Loken68


Again I agree with you. Those without faith are doomed, but does that mean that all those with faith are exempt? Also what about the billions of people that walked this earth like Ghandi. I cannot believe in a God that does not have an extremely sophisticated perception (far beyond our own) of right and wrong. Judgment not solely based on actions, but also on our intentions.

And if you believe that those with faith can be damned to hell, why is it so unfathomable to accept those without faith can be granted the grace of heaven.

reply to post by MAC269


I see the apparent differences between faith and church, but without church you cannot have faith. The bible is a derivative of church (written by man) and is the only source of information about god. Without faith in others one cannot have faith in god. It is defiantly a double edged sword.

reply to post by captainbitter


Dear captainbitter

I believe you can have a much greater FAITH than most who attend church every Sunday and never walk through the doors of a church. This you can do just by getting to know Jesus.

Pick up the bible but also study what you can of the Gnostics. Live his way of life.

Look at the life of Jesus and compare it to the church.

Did Jesus build St Paul’s no he preached in the markets on the hill side anywhere but it did not cost his congregation. Look at the churches how many hospitals could have been built with this cash.

The Vatican holds wealth beyond imagination, think what good could be done with that money. If you go to heaven in my opinion you will not find many popes there.

Thread has been successfully hijacked due to avoidance of the question.

Well, I would start an army to fight Christ. I'm no satanist, but the bible says I won't be getting into Heaven because I'm an Atheist, so I might as well try to fight against the person who wants me to burn in hell for all eternity.

reply to post by Loken68


I addressed and answered your question. I then retorted with a question of my own. Faith is a hard concept for me to grasp and I sincerely want understanding. Instead of offering me some sort of repentance or offering of faith you have perpetuated my fears of god and faith.

I'm sorry that I am ignorant on this subject, but I really want the answers as to the why in life. I've looked to science and only found answers as to what. I've looked to philosophy only to find more question. And finally I've looked to a disciple (misguided I hope) of god only to find more deceit and distrust.

reply to post by MAC269


I'd like to thank you for giving me hope in a god that truly believes in love and equality. I wish more than anything for us to be judged for love for others and ourselves rather than our donations to god.

I hope someday I will be able to accept god as my creator.

i would laugh and say really??