Western Women's right [THE TRUTH]

lol 90% of the people here have missed the point of this thread.

i agree with the op, before you go tell someone else to do something, learn to do it yourself 1st.

star & flag

I don't think it is USA bashing to comment on the figures of what is done to women in the USA. You can love your country and still see the faults. Pointing the finger at other countries in righteous indignation and ignoring the faults back home is the worst sort of disingenuousness.

It's impossible for any country's government to guarantee the safety of any of us, whether man woman or child. Although they can guarantee a legal system which will deter or prosecute those responsible for heinious crimes. The same cannot be said for China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Western society obviously has drawbacks. For example, women free to go out on their own may lead to more rapes as desperate and disgusting males prey on them. Shall we force women to stay at home to solve this, or instead go forwards rather than backwards.

Perhaps the OP could give us a logical and constructive solution to help protect women and deter these crimes, rather than throwing a bunch of figures into cyberspace and complaining about government.

This thread's rather transparent motive is to point out abuses in the U.S. and Western worlds. Obviously they exist. We generally call it domestic violence, and it is illegal. Perpetrators of such abuses are charged, and jailed, when this is reported.

My thoughts are these type of abuses are not always reported in Middle Eastern countries, because they are not illegal, nor are they considered crimes.

It would be interesting to see some comparative studies based on consistent definitions of "domestic violence", or "crime", in both regions.
Behaviors they find acceptable, we do not, and we punish by incarceration.
Also, a man gains a very unsavory reputation among other men as well as women, once he has been charged with "domestic violence". It's unacceptable behavior, and a poor reputation in this regard can be damaging.

It would also be interesting to have *correct data* regarding such abusive behaviors in both regions studied in occurrence by capita statistics.

I don't think a viable study could be done in the ME, due to unreported data, and the lack of definition of "domestic violence" or "crime".

Originally posted by RizeorDie
lol 90% of the people here have missed the point of this thread.

i agree with the op, before you go tell someone else to do something, learn to do it yourself 1st.

star & flag

Sorry, but I disagree. The point is very transparent, as I indicated in my previous post. Surely you don't really consider the subject matter, or OP to be so lofty that we "don't get it".

We do.

Originally posted by RizeorDie
lol 90% of the people here have missed the point of this thread.

i agree with the op, before you go tell someone else to do something, learn to do it yourself 1st.

star & flag

Our governments expect countries to convict criminals when vicious crimes against women are commited, instead of ignoring them or even advocating them. They aren't expecting other governments to guarantee the safety of all women, as that would be impossible. Therefore they aren't hypocritical in that sense.

I haven't read past page 1 of this thread, but I'm fairly sure you haven't understood the difference between providing a fair legal system, and a non-existant expectation that broken societies magically fix themselves.

These government figures are only available because of the justice system, which in principal puts these criminals away. In other countries, women are abused at home and there's never official stats, although numerous anecdotal evidence emerges over time which show a pattern of abuse. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges, because there's no logical basis to use statistics to compare them.

In Iran, women are told to leave the streets by old men if they show any flesh.

Iran one year later with repression

Leaving the park, I stumble on an alter-cation between a bearded man in a uniform carrying a truncheon and a young girl. "If you're hot, Miss, why don't you go home and lie in front of a fan. But don't come to a public place dressed like that." Her scarf is indeed skimpy, pushed back to the crown of her head. Otherwise she's modestly covered. She beats a retreat, fixing the scarf, not chastened, cheeks flushed with anger and humiliation as we look on embarrassed.

This is typical harrassment of women by the bigotted and pathetic. A man could get arrested for saying that to a woman in the UK & US.
The whole of that article is definately worth reading.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by john124]

We have designated as crimes which are prosecutable:

Assault
Rape
Confinement
Stalking
Destruction of Private Property
Molestation
Child Abuse
Child Sexual Abuse.
Coercion
Conversion
..............................and many more.

Our laws are in place to protect us. There are always going to be criminals. Apparently not all countries share our thoughts that these are crimes against women, and humanity. Here, most of these are crimes against the state; the reason why we have Prosecutors, and District Attorney's offices.





[edit on 5/15/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

reply to post by oozyism


I think you are a man. A male Muslim. Are you?

reply to post by orangetom1999


The women's movement is responsible for, some semblance of equality, and even for the right to vote. The issues that are brought up are legitimate and needed to be addressed. Very much so, its quite shocking that this wasn't addressed thousands of years ago.

Unless you are misunderstanding what equality means or what womens liberation is about.

Also, the rapes are under reported. Amongst my friends, most were sexually abused, growing up, most had moments when someone, such a boyfriend on a date, didn't take no, or even at 12, someone touching them, when visiting a friend, if not overtly touching, then being discriminated against continually, with sexist and crude remarks and jokes.

Most women I know curtail where they walk and when they walk, not feeling safe to just go anywhere by themselves, often for good reasons.

Many are in abusive relationships, either phsyically or emotionally.

Most women are underpaid, as well.

When they stay at home for the family and manage all the duties done, you should check out what it would cost to replace all these services.

Enough said, womens liberation = equality. That is a very good thing.


[edit on 15-5-2010 by Unity_99]

reply to post by orangetom1999


You said:

American women cannot wait to leave here and flock to down under and other places where the government has more agencies to take care of them...on the public dole.

____________________________
I deeply resent this statement, and find it offensive. It's generalities such as this that indicates a lack of understanding. In other words,
You don't know what you're talking about. The last thing I want is an "agency" to take care of me. I do just fine, and I can definitely live without the sexist remarks.

Furthermore, there are some poor women who can't find their way out of generational poverty, and continue to rely on public support, but the majority DO NOT. Your thoughts are quite archaic and sexist.

A friendly reminder from a previously written thread notice.

Alright. As is always the case with cultural differences, human rights, gender issues, and other social matters, this is a sensitive topic that calls for maturity.

By all means, please feel encouraged to be passionate in your stance. However, refrain from attacking other members by remembering that Courtesy is Mandatory and ATS' golden rule to debate the post and not the poster.

Focus on the facts, information, and claims. Not each other.

Posts that resort to personal attacks could resort in the post being removed and the member warned.

Thank you.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by strangleholder1
Man! what is the point of this thread? it proves nothing other than the OPs desire to write about topics they clearly don't really understand.......

Must try harder

No you try harder to understand, do you get what Women's Rights means? And What the purpose of women's Right is?

So what is the purpose? Isn't it there to protect women?

I don't see American women being protected with those statistics?

no its not to protect women its to treat them as equal to any man
all you have done in this thread is expose yourself as another fool just looking to criticize any part of western culture. i wonder what you see as better?

I thought two comments were worth replying, since both attack me directly and personally.

No I'm not offended, but since I'm here might as well defend my claims, actually that is my duty since I'm the creator of the thread.



reply to post by Aceofclubs



start with this:

no its not to protect women its to treat them as equal to any man
all you have done in this thread is expose yourself as another fool just looking to criticize any part of western culture. i wonder what you see as better?

I'm a fool for saying women's right is to protect women?

If that makes me a fool, than seriously you are beyond anything comprehendable.

What is the point of women and me being equal to men? So that they are protected from any discrimination by men?

Is that not protecting women? Are women still being discriminated by men as the numbers show?


reply to post by orangetom1999

Umm what is the maximum freedom you had? Since I lived in New Zealand I even had a threesome, that being said I have enjoyed more freedom than you? But is that good? What do you base freedom upon?

Thinking people are not naturally this dumb so as to think this is an example of quality of life. As I said..only public education standards can unnaturally dumb people down this far.

It was sarcasm, my point in that post was and still is as it was. If you want to understand what I meant by that statement please read the whole discussion between me and my counter part.

that being said I have enjoyed more freedom than you? But is that good? What do you base freedom upon?

Don't jump to conclusions

reply to post by andy1033

Amazing that the female gender can goto the police and make up anything about any male they want and that males life is destroyed forever, then you have females complaining about womens rights.

I have a thread on that, so if you are interested post your comment here:

Women's right (forgetting the men)

I am inclined to agree with Blaine here.

I think you are a man. A male Muslim. Are you?

Or at least a product of public education down there.

I also agree with another poster who said that instead of criticizing as they are doing ...what is the solution. It is easy to take cheap shots from the sidelines..like many politicians..but what is the solution.

It comes across as long on rhetoric but short on answers..long on blame but short on results.

Unity,

I am not responsible for what happens to these women or any other woman ...don't attempt to put this off on me. The woman I am seeing...I taught her to shoot..bought her a pistol and an AK 47. And she knows how to use them. She is responsible for her own safety. Why would you attempt to explain this as if somehow I am responsible or accountable for this onus??? Because I have an opinion which is different from many???
I am not responsible and accountable for the safety of all these women out here. They can be responsible for it themselves.

Rights also mean responsibility. They are not free nor guaranteed....not another government program. Understand??

Let me tell you something I know about my mother and grandmothers. They worked harder than do most women today...also harder than do most men. They were not shrinking violets. Don't attempt to treat me as if this is something I don't know.
I am very fortunate even blessed in that I did not have parents who spent much time or monies behind the bottle or drugs. For I know many who do/have..male and female both. And in many of these families the children pay dearly for it. I don't agree with this kind of conduct ..male or female.

Do not attempt to use the time warp technique on me as if women are in danger of going back to the situation thousands of years ago.

its quite shocking that this wasn't addressed thousands of years ago.

Let me tell you something not told about living and life thousands of years ago. It was no cakewalk for the men as well. The women's movement totally ignores this truth. All I have to do is go into any graveyard around here going back about 200 years (Chesapeake Bay) and look at the lifespans of men and women. The men usually died off before most of the women. They still do. What is the women's movement doing about this inequality?? This is very telling if one is awake and knows more than textbook political history.

In any department store in this country there is a ratio of about 7 to 1 goods directed at the female..verses the male. This is not a downtrodden victimized class of people.
The common dictum is that women don't make as much monies as do men. This looks pretty silly when one realizes that at 7 to 1...someone has a huge block of access to monies ...while claiming they don't make as much as men. It is not men spending the monies at 7 to 1 for this stuff.

This is the main reason so many women do not flock or migrate to other countries..outside of the language and customs barrier. There is not such a ratio of goods and services available. And women in other countries as a result have to work much harder and under more difficult conditions than do they here. Like the OP, I too have been to other countries. Born in one of them. Many of these women in other countries want to come here..not the women here going to other countries.

Most women are underpaid, as well.

When they stay at home for the family and manage all the duties done, you should check out what it would cost to replace all these services.

Enough said, womens liberation = equality. That is a very good thing.

LOL LOL ..see what I mean?? Women take more time off..miss more time...require more expensive facilities, are hesitant to travel long distances or for long periods of time for work...etc. etc.

This is never discussed when using the standard default setting of "women are underpaid. Remember what I said...go into any department store and look at the ratio of goods and services..about 7 to 1. Whose monies are they spending if they are underpaid?? No rocket science needed here.

I think the women should go out and work and the men stay home with the families...and answer the phone...watch television and learn about male "Victimization." in this social structure.

You know....speaking of "Victims" I was watching this Home and Garden thing the other night. You know..buying a new house. A young couple just starting out. Guess what ..the woman was wearing a burka. Did you see it??"" All the women in these programs are wearing burkas. ...all of them. They never have any input into what goes into these houses..when they are purchased. None whatsoever. They are totally silent ..downtrodden and browbeaten. Did you notice that?? Same thing with this program "Flip this House. All the women wear burkas!!! In every program. If you haven't seen it ..look for it.

Do I need to take a lie detector tests or a DNA test on this one???

Watch this one closely Unity...

When they stay at home for the family and manage all the duties done, you should check out what it would cost to replace all these services.

Most of the women I have ever known are looking for a man who will help out with these services. They are "not" looking to do a mans traditional work even around the house and home. But they want a man to help them.
He must do his traditional work plus help with hers...whats unusual with this picture??
I am grateful to my parents for teaching me how to wash clothes, iron, cook, clean, and other household duties. I do not come to a woman for these skills. She must have much much more than just this. I can do all these myself. They are not difficult.

What a smart woman and man do is raise children and teach them to take care of these jobs and help out..not just to play all day and night.

I know to many women and men both who have children who are high maintenance ...but can play the heck out of video games televisions and cell phones. Not smart.

Also to many families with children running the home ..not the parents.




ladyinwaiting,

LOL LOL LOL LOL...sorry..I cant help it. Your response was so funny and predictable. I should have realized this when I made that post. I was being facetious towards the OP...not towards you.

I deeply resent this statement, and find it offensive. It's generalities such as this that indicates a lack of understanding. In other words,
You don't know what you're talking about. The last thing I want is an "agency" to take care of me. I do just fine, and I can definitely live without the sexist remarks.

Furthermore, there are some poor women who can't find their way out of generational poverty, and continue to rely on public support, but the majority DO NOT. Your thoughts are quite archaic and sexist.

I am happy to see that you take your views and beliefs seriously. Congratulations.

However..If you think I am sexist..and archaic..No problem by me. I am not impressed with what passes for intelligence or the moral high ground today. Not interested in most of it. Guilt conditioning or other such default settings do not work with me.


But..since both you and Unity know so much and are so well grounded...

Can you tell me what the truly valuable commodity is that a good woman brings to a man?? Don't worry to hard on it ..because the average male out here is so dirt dumb ..they haven't a clue themselves.

Thanks,
Orangetom










[edit on 16-5-2010 by orangetom1999]