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Immigration Debate: Lest 'We the People' NOT Forget the Motto: E Pluribus Unum

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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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E Pluribus Unum



E PLURIBUS UNUM – Origin and Meaning of the Motto Carried by the American Eagle

As defined:


Translating E PLURIBUS UNUM

The general meaning of each Latin word is clear:
Pluribus is related to the English word: "plural."
Unum is related to the English word: "unit."

E Pluribus Unum describes an action: Many uniting into one. An accurate translation of the motto is "Out of many, one" – a phrase that elegantly captures the symbolism on the shield.

The meaning of this motto is better understood when seen in its original classical context.



Out of Many One


or as it was intended per the Constitution:


the Countries from which these States have been peopled:


It's not "Out of many one, wait okay that's too many"

Granted this motto was initially based on the immigrants that founded this Great Country as stated in the link.

None the less...

To the naysayers who want to invoke immigration laws, it goes completely against the foundation of what this Country was founded upon. Everyone of you that are reading this thread, with the exception of a true decedent of Native America has NO argument whatsoever. We're all descended from an immigrant in one way shape or fashion. Had these laws existed 200 years ago, the U.S. would not be where it is today. This is a Capitalist Economy of which was built by immigrant hands starting when the Pilgrims landed. Many wars have been fought to secure this way of life.

We are a Great Nation!! The "American Dream" is a much sought after aspiration by many countries, not just economically challenged Mexicans. Mexico just happens to be ideally and geographically positioned to thwart the migration of illegal immigrants.

The immigrants illegal or otherwise are not the ones at fault here, it is the Corporations and small businesses that employ them for pennies on the dollar. Which in turn does make it hard for the average trained citizen to compete for employment that is agreed. However, immigrants are making more money even at pennies on the dollar than they could ever make in their own country. They are merely going where opportunity presents itself. Face it...the U.S.-Mexican border is not by any means full proof.

I guess what I am saying is that you shouldn't blame the little guy. Immigrants illegal and otherwise are only trying to do what you and I do everyday, and that's live a quality life. Every human being deserves quality of life. To look down on a fellow human being for trying to achieve this is very unbecoming, no matter where he/she originates. If you are against illegal immigrants then so be it. Just realize, they are not the one's at fault. This Great Country that is the U.S. and all it has accomplished in the last 200+ years is what they long to be a part of. You should be proud that your Country is that great that people would risk life and limb just to have a taste. This, is all mostly due to immigrants that just wanted to live "The American Dream" since the earliest of settlers.

You can't blame the immigrants (legal or not) for wanting the same. Your argument lies with your Government. If they should choose to change the Country's foundation then it will be your vote that does so based on who you elect to run the Country. However, in doing so it will put "E Pluribus Unum" to rest and that goes against the fabric upon which this Great Nation was built.

Just wanted to get that off my chest, now fire away!


[edit on 5/14/2010 by UberL33t]




posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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I hope this wasn't too much of a reality check



Carry on....



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by UberL33t
 


2 Immigrants with a birthrate of 4 will produce 100+ descendants in 80 years.
Twenty million with a birthrate of 4 will produce 1 billion+ in 80 years.
The American dream will become a nightmare.
Only the Chinese understand birthrates.
www.abovetopsecret.com...









[edit on 14-5-2010 by RRokkyy]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 




The American dream will become a nightmare.

Not with the proper legislation it won't, that's where the problem lies. Immigration just needs proper management. It doesn't need to be eliminated all together. TPTB have let it get to where it is via the ones that voted them in. It isn't a problem until it messes with ones livelihood. That livelihood is what they want to have a piece of. Can you blame them? We have it good!!

I will agree that population is a determining factor when it comes to immigration. It should be better regulated. Compared to 200 years ago is quite a significant difference. However, to eliminate the chance to achieve "the dream" is outright selfish in nature.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 


Oh, that is alright. Bill Gates is working on the problem. He has stated the vaccines will be used to take care of that.

No need to fear, Bill Gates with his vaccines are here!


Just take the jabs and shut up!



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by UberL33t
reply to post by RRokkyy
 




The American dream will become a nightmare.

Not with the proper legislation it won't, that's where the problem lies. Immigration just needs proper management. It doesn't need to be eliminated all together. However, to eliminate the chance to achieve "the dream" is outright selfish in nature.


Are you suggesting we limit immigrants to ONLY ONE CHILD per family?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 




Are you suggesting we limit immigrants to ONLY ONE CHILD per family?

Well no...I was more going with the notion that primarily border control should be better funded to start. Higher penalties for employers that employ illegals second.

The thing is, the "American Dream" isn't just handed to you. You have to work for it. Through education and the like. I mean there will always be the manual labor type of jobs. If an employer is willing to cut labor costs by employing an illegal immigrant, then he/she should be just as equally responsible for the consequences in doing so.

If the illegal immigrant doesn't have the means to make the money then he/she won't make an effort to illegally immigrate. The issue lies with the Government's leniency towards penalties that are proposed upon employers that employ the illegals. As long as there is money to be made, they'll keep coming.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by UberL33t

As long as there is money to be made, they'll keep coming.



The women from South of the border are not coming here to
make money.
They are coming here to make babies.
They want to have large families and they cant afford
them in their home countries.
As long as we provide
them with free health care, welfare for their babies,food stamps
and all the other perks for their Anchor babies they will come.

Anyway there may be 40 million of them here already so
this is now The United States of Mexico.



[edit on 14-5-2010 by RRokkyy]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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I had to S+F this post, UberL33t. Well done.

You have presented a wonderful alternative way to look at some of these "immigration problems" and this in my opinion is a step in the right direction.

People need to learn we are all one, ethnicity is nothing in the end. The problem is not the people, it's the system. To borrow from another thread Jose Illegal and Joe Legal want the same things really, health, safety, happiness, etc. Only thing is the system makes Jose out to be the bad guy.

One thought I have been wanting to share with people about illegals getting served at hospitals and clinics is this. My aunt is the administrator (runs the hospital) for 4 separate county hospitals. I saw her this past mothers day and had a talk about current events. She stated to me in a matter-of-fact sort of tone that it does not matter who comes into any hospital
if they need medical attention doctors have a duty and obligation to help, regardless of whether or not the patient has insurance or cash. Their oath is designed to stop things like "I'll save your life for $$$". But alas, we here on ATS are not stupid and we know that what she described is now a very rare thing, but there it is straight from the doctor's mouth, doctors should be more worried about their oath than money. When I brought some of those points up my aunt said, "If any doctor that works for me ever got caught refusing care to someone, anyone it would be grounds for instant dismissal" and that she would do everything in her power to strip him/her of his license to practice. Oh and before everyone screams BUT THEY DON'T PAY TAXES! - What tax do you pay that goes towards hospitals? I'm really curious because I can't find the answer anywhere. (Unless its misinformation like "Income taxes go to hospitals."

Apologies for going a little off topic.

-Light



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by UberL33t
 


To the naysayers who want to invoke immigration laws, it goes completely against the foundation of what this Country was founded upon



What are you rambling on about...

there are legal ways to go about this..

we all know the history...

If I have to follow the rules..

so should they..

please refer your friends here..

Application for Naturalization

if you want to try & pass this on to corporations..

please watch this & help End the FED..


Google Video Link



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 



My aunt is the administrator (runs the hospital) for 4 separate county hospitals.


So where do they get their funding?The tooth fairy?

Your aunt is a administrator she is not even a doctor.

If she were to fire any doctor for the actions you described I would bet a peso she would be looking for a job before that doctor did.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by UberL33t
However, to eliminate the chance to achieve "the dream" is outright selfish in nature.


You call it selfish, I call it self preservation.

I don't want to deny anyone the opportunity to come here...legally. I probably would never have had much more than a passing thought on the matter, if those who did come here illegally, could speak conversational english, were not breeding anchor babies, and not trying to replace local cultures with those of Mexican barrios.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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OP, Immigration is legal and tens of millions of people have come to this country through legal immigration. I haven't heard a peep ever about stopping immigration. That has never been up for debate.

What you are basically saying is that the world should be border-less.

Which leads me to believe you misstated yourself when you said this is a "Great Country"

You don't seem to believe in countries.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by Oneolddude
 


Well for starters they have;

Donations
Fund raisers
Benefactors
Sponsors
Sales (from things like the gift shop, pharmacy, etc etc.)

I can't list all the revenue streams because I simply do not know them all, however what I will do for you is ask my aunt. Would that suffice?

You are right, my aunt is an administrator, but before she was doing that she was a practicing endocrinologist. She is still a doctor man. She just does not have a valid license to practice anymore.

Her quote on firing doctors is if she caught them refusing service for not being able to prove insurance or having the funds on hand is part of her job. She explained it to me like this. Doctors have only one duty, help save lives. Their pay cheques will still flow its not their job to play the debt collector or salesman for the hospital. The hospital has a dept. for that.

We (the people) went wrong when we started to love money more than each other, thats why health care is in this mess, this problem is compounded by the fact people are trained to be scared for their jobs, wages are at the bare minimum to survive adding to the fear. This sort of training has led people to believe that by screwing a person over for the company they are helping that company. That company will then turn around and pay nothing more than lip service to, "More profits for us equal more money for you!". Fear is keeping people from helping people. I don't know about you guys but my wages MIGHT go up a dollar or two a year. But milk went up .45, bread .25, eggs, cheese, butter .30, don't even get me started on the rising costs of fresh produce, my taxes have gone up, gas has gone up, my insurance went up, you name it, it has probably gone up in price in the last year. So my 1.50 raise still only buys me the same amount I could afford last year.

Now since I have really gone off on a tangent here I wanna just tie all of what I said together with a mention of the OP's original topic, only by acting as one and treating each other with respect are we going to solve these problems. We can try to point blame in this direction or that, but at the end of the day what really matters is moving forward and undoing all that has been done to cripple us. By proving to TPTB that we are, kind, mature, intelligent, respectful, loving adults able to understand the complex issues of governance we literally strip them of their powers by making them redundant. Am I talking all love and bunnies here? Maybe, but whats wrong with that? Isn't that what the majority of us really want? To be loved and respected and live in peace with one another? Well? Isn't it? E Pluribus Unum.

Gonna cut this off right here as I have no intention of hi-jacking this thread any further. Sorry OP.

-Light



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by METACOMET
 




What you are basically saying is that the world should be border-less.

Shouldn't it? The guy on the other side of the world may think and believe differently from me, but those are petty differences that we as a species have yet to overcome unfortunately.

Bottom line, "that other guy" bleeds the same color and breathes the same air. Period.

[edit on 5/15/2010 by UberL33t]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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I have decided to make this my final stand on this debate, and have posted, more or less this same message in the other immigration threads on the board.

Here's the thing, there isn't one grain of sand on this Earth that has the right to be "claimed" by anyone. Where is it written that the Earth is a piece of property, more so, how can any human, or ethnicity for that matter, consider it "just" to stake a claim to something that isn't and never will be their property?

This is where "people" get confused and caught up in their minuscule existence in this vast Universe. The why and how of our existence is comprised of many different origins based on one's belief. None the less, Earth was here long before you and chances are it will be here long after you.

Ownership of property (land or otherwise) is an illusion. I am 99.9% positive you won't be taking it with you when you "go". If that was the case, there wouldn't be much of an Earth left as everyone would have taken their "little piece" with them.

This precious commodity that is our Earth, could be gone in the blink of an eye. Cherish it, and everything in it and on it, your time to do so is but a drop in the bucket.



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