Jesus Christ and the anti christ

reply to post by savvys84


These a fictional facades we have created in our human minds, Jesus isn't real, and you've wasted yours lives seeking salvation with your gods, remember these are things we have created with our minds, like electricity and science except these things can be applied to real life.

Originally posted by ToToo
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

You make a valid point in regards to that. But beyond that, I cannot see how anyone can still believe in this Jesus divine son of God messiah/savior man when there are SO MANY similar Gods and characters before him performing all of the same miraculous and above-human works. I used to believe in all this too until I read up on all the earlier Gods and religions. I find it unbelievable that anyone hasnt discovered all these earlier religions and Gods yet to which Christianity has copied.

I'd love to hear some of it, please, go on.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by savvys84

 

These a fictional facades we have created in our human minds, Jesus isn't real, and you've wasted yours lives seeking salvation with your gods, remember these are things we have created with our minds, like electricity and science except these things can be applied to real life.

Hi,
Nice to have you here. You are wrong in assuming Jesus isnt real and not applied to real life. But you will not understand this, till you begin to have a personal realtioship with him, and this relationship will start once you are filled with the Holy Spirit

Originally posted by savvys84

Originally posted by troubleshooter
What did Sir Issac Newton himself say about it?

Sir Issac Newton wrote more theology than he did science...
...and some think it was his ability to conceptualize theological issues...
...that gave him the ability and freedom to investigate the sciences...
...without being bound by contemporary preconceptions.

You might be surprised to read what he had to say about this.

Thats a welcome twist.
So lets hear what Newton had to say about this

Here is one of his quotes...

"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies & insist on their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor & opposition." Sir Isaac Newton

This has happened in the Dispensational/Pre-Millenial Rapture movement that focuses on prophecy being fulfilled through literal Israel.

reply to post by savvys84


They are one in the same and they are not one, but all. Jesus means "Self existent salvation" hence beginning and end. When you have an end, what's done is done forever and can not be altered.

Jesus has a "double edged" sword. His words are double meanings, parables. Regardless, jesus is everyone, that is, all that are "self existent salvation".

Peace

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by savvys84

 

These a fictional facades we have created in our human minds, Jesus isn't real, and you've wasted yours lives seeking salvation with your gods, remember these are things we have created with our minds, like electricity and science except these things can be applied to real life.

Many saw him die and be buried and many saw him alive after the resurrection. Even among those who saw with their eyes there were those who treated it as fictional and went on with their lives. Faith is the key, you are not alone in your lack of it. In fact there are forces actively engaged against you seeing the truth. Real life is not found within the empty box defined by our senses and the reality around us.

So many feel the need to make public statements like the quoted poster, why? Because on some level you know the truth but refuse to accept it because you can't understand it fully and because it will change your life. If you truly didn't believe, then you would ignore completely.

We didn't create electricity or the things of science, they have existed since creation, we simply learned to understand and harness them. Your pride, stubbornness and lack of faith is your problem, as it has been for many who have lived and died before you. Science is not ours, it exists and always has. I don't claim a stone found on the ground is something I created with my mind and take credit for it, if I did I would be a fool. I will let you take this to conclusion,...

on a lighter note I am somewhat surprised there wasn't a "Praise Science!" somewhere in your post. ;P

this is gonna be one of those fun threads, haha.
Let me adress believers first, because I am one fo those people that hates both sides, and will make both sides of this argument mad at myself. Why? Because I believe in God. But I don't believe that the fear of god nor the love of god should be pushed upon people's thoughts and minds constantly, or forced down people's throats. The manifest OF god and the idea of god must be experienced and found individually. Thus I declare myself of an ancient religion (aka zoroastrianism), but I do not like the idea of tradition, rituals, and organized belief. Why? Because its a form of oppression. Your telling someone to do something, and if they dont, then they will die eternally. This isn't true....in a way. You see, scripture was written by man, and not by god. Therefore you have to remember that men lie and cheat and steal and want every form of power. Man has used "holy sripture" to oppress people, steal from them, cheat them from a free thinking mind, and make them believe in falsities. Because the real devil is within Christianity, and within the control of religion as a whole. Control. Fear. It is the real evil. The real Lucifer. The devil hides in the light, because the light blinds people from the truth.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in God. But I am, as well as a zoroatrian, a deist. The real God created the world, but to contain that which he also has created. Us. The universe is our cage. He does nmot have much involvement in the afairs of this "realm". The real God lies in a realm of spirit. WE are in the realm of "matter". The realm of material things. Dont mean to sound like a hippy or some new extremist, but I am in the belief that our bodies are vessels for our souls, that WE are the fallen angels, and WE are the ones that must work our way back to "heaven", to this "spiritual realm", whatever it may be. How? Basic principles of the universe. Karma. Love your neighbor as yourself. Being a good person. Thus the zoroastrian principles of good thought, good word, good action.

A lot of interesting principles of zorostrianism should be looked at, I think all of you will at least find them interesting. Here is a link to wikipedia's definition (so you dont have to go through the work of looking it up yourself): en.wikipedia.org...

Now I dont believe in zoroastrianism 100%, but i think they are as close to the truth as anyone.

Now, I adress the non-believers. I have been in several science classes and have talked to teachers and proffesors on the matter, but it all comes down to the big bang, and they all will tell you this:"....we don't know what caused the big bang."
Everything in Science lead up to this theiry of the Big bang, but once they work there way back to the origin, they stumble. Sound familiar? Evolutionism is just a scientific version of religion. The beginning could have started a number of ways. Will we ever know? No. Will it ever affect how we live our daily lives? No. So what's the point in worry about the VERY BEGINNING? What's the point in looking up and researching all these things only to get the same answer everywhere? Basically, because we are curious. Can't blame you there my friend, we r all curious. But the point is, we r here. Something created us. And I think, for science to be "so logical" and then end its ultimant book of eveything so poorly and unlogical is just down right stupid. Something created everything. Why does god need to explain everything to us?

The funny thing here is that the true believers always think they will be smart enough to know the "true" Christ from the "false" Christ, even though the Bible specifically says that maybe even the majority of people will be fooled.

Everybody always likes to think that they have an inside track and know more than other people, but the fact is, anybody anxiously waiting for a Christ is going to probably be easier to fool than the people who are standing back and looking at the situation objectively.

And you always get them tossing about Bible quotes as to how to recognize the pro from the anti Christ. Which is also funny, since any anti Christ with half a brain will be sure to select those exact things to mimic and fool the believers. The false Christ will even bring about many years of peace and prosperity.

The thing is, the only way anybody would really be able to know which was the true Christ and which was the false Christ would be after the fact. Whoever "wins" in the long run will be seen as the true Christ.

But this is all just a lot of holdover from the old dualistic Zoroastrian notion of black vs. white, good vs. evil. In real life, nothing is ever so easy.

Overview of Zoroastrianism



[edit on 17-5-2010 by Blue Shift]

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
The beginning could have started a number of ways. Will we ever know?

Well, the problem about the Big Bang is that people always try to understand it in the framework of linear time. That there was a single event that "started" time traveling in one direction or dimension, and that everything happened "after" that.

Taking a more accurate view of non-linear time allows that the Big Bang didn't start everything. In fact, everything happens all the time. The universe is expanding both forward and backward in time, with bits and pieces of spacetime zooming through little and big wormholes, maybe even carrying life with it, and allowing for various conscious things to pull reality out of virtuality, creating more universe.

People just need to stop thinking of time as a straight line and imagine it as more like a sponge, with little holes all over it, that expands when you put it in water (or in this case, when it becomes observed by more living things).

@ Blue Shift:
Jesus: Your totally right, this is what i was trying to say before but u said it better. People need to wake up. For a lot of reasons, and this is one of them.
Big Bang: Science can't explain what caused the Big Bang, therefore it is just as good as saying god created everything. THats why people who dont believe in God are dumb in the sense that it only makes logical sense for there to BE a god that created all things. Science cant wrap its mind around that because we cant explain it yet, so we deny that it is logical because we cat explain it. But when things make sense, they make sense. Like the fact that you have a brain, right? Well how r we gonna prove that you REALLY have a brain? to cut u open and look inside. But you wouldnt want that right? So does that give people the right to say you dont have a brain? No. It only makes sense that you have abrain, because you function like the rest of us. Just basic examples of faith. Like the fact that ther is no such things as "cold", only the absence of heat, or that fact that there is no such thing as the dark, it is just the absence of light. Things like that can help mprove my point that just because we can not prove god is there, we know he's there, because its the only thing that makes sense.

Also Blue Shift, what is YOUR opinion on zoroastrianism?