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Is anyone actually buying into this load of crap?

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posted on May, 16 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

I just want people to call a spade a spade, * * *



I'm still waiting.

Seriously, do you really believe that the problem lands squarely on the backs of the homeowners who experienced the huge interest rate increases in their ARM and the consequent doubling or more of their monthly payment which rendered them unable to make the payment any longer? Most of those homeowners had no trouble making their payments until the ARM clause was applied and the monthly payments were increased to a level which the homeowners could no longer pay.

There is no sound reason why interest rates on something as fundamental as the mortgage on a family's home should be in the double digits or even more than 3 or 4 % per annum. This situation exists solely because those who are positioned to regulate these interest rates do so in the interests of the money lenders rather than the citizens of this land.

Pray tell, who are those people? Can you help us out here?

Those who gambled away this county's tradition of homeownership in favor of their own greed and avarice are the true financial terrorists of this time.

[edit on 5/16/2010 by dubiousone]




posted on May, 16 2010 @ 10:05 PM
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Seriously, do you really believe that the problem lands squarely on the backs of the homeowners experienced the huge interest rate increases in their ARM and the consequent doubling or more of their monthly payment which rendered them unable to make the payment any longer?


According to Richard Bitner, author of the book, "Confessions of a Sub-Prime Lender", Mr. Bitner states that between the years 2003-2005, more than 70% of all brokered loan files submitted for initial review were somehow deceptive, misleading, or fraudulent.

70%. "Deceptive, misleading, fraudulent." Hmmmm. Let's think about that for a moment.

These "poor" homeowners were sold a bill of goods. The mortgage broker preyed on their greed. Here's the pitch:

"Mr. Borrower, you can buy this house over here with 1,000 square feet for $250,000. Or you can have the exact same monthly payment, and buy this house over here with 3,000 square feet, a pool, and 5 acres of land, at $400,000. Which would you prefer?

And, in 3 years, when the loan ARM resets, you just sell your $400,000 house for $450,000, and make a cool $50,000 profit. I mean, after all, real estate market prices are exploding right now, right?"

That was the sales pitch. And the homeowner bought the pitch hook, line, and sinker, and bit off more than they could chew. All because the homeowner was greedy, and wanted to flip the house in 3 years for a quick profit when the ARM expired.

What did the mortgage broker and the homeowner conspire to do? "Let's doctor up the loan application. You make $30,000 per year? Let's call it $90,000 a year. You're a hairdresser? Let's call you a salon owner and entrepreneur. You have bad credit? No problem. We can doctor up that credit report a little bit here and there. No big deal. You're good for it, right?"

And you want me to feel sorry for these crooks? Are you kidding me?

70% of the sub-prime loan applications were outright fraudulent loan applications between the boom years of 2003-2005. Remember that number. 70%.

Guess what? In most cases, the homeowner never put any money down. No down payment. And they financed all of the fees - title fees, appraisal fees, etc.

These borrowers could never afford these homes in the first place. Under traditional lending criteria, they would never ever have qualified in the first place. They missed all the traditional marks: They had bad credit. They didn't have enough income. They didn't have a down payment. They had weak job history. They had more financial liabilities than assets. Their credit report was riddled with tax liens, judgments, late pay history, and past bankruptcies. The only thing they had going for them was a rising real estate market, and very loose lending standards at the time.

What did smart consumers do? Either wait, and not buy a house until the market crashed, or they took out a fixed rate, conventional 30 year mortgage with 20% down on a house that they could afford in good times and bad.

Do I feel bad that people were duped? Yes and no. Mostly, no. At the time of the real estate boom, people were simply in a feeding frenzy over real estate. They were overly-zealous, and greedy beyond belief.

Were some elderly people snookered? Probably. I feel bad for them. But most of these homeowners knew exactly what they were doing and why. I feel no sympathy for their greed and avarice.

I might also add: Most of these alleged "homeowners" weren't even homeowners. They were investors, house flippers, and speculators. They were out to make a quick buck on a house they never even lived in.

And now they want you, the American taxpayer, to foot the bill for their lousy judgment. No thanks. I'll pass.

But go ahead, you support these crooked borrowers all you like. I hear you loud and clear.



Pray tell, who are those people? Can you help us out here? They truly are the financial terrorists of this age.

The financial terrorists are the people that committed mortgage fraud, defrauding banks and other financial institutions by doctoring their loan applications and inflating their income on their loan applications, all with the help of their neighborhood friendly sub-prime mortgage broker, Guido. They truly are financial terrorists.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by CookieMonster09]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09



To be fair I do see that you're trying very hard to make a distinction between big banking corpo's and Mom and Pop banks...

I think there is a huge difference.


Me too. I agree with you on those points...

I guess what I was responding to is that I see the same kind of knee jerk reactions that got us into war in Iraq towards "BANKS!" Well, what banks? Is banking inherently bad? No. I am with you on that.



I am happy to discuss the Federal Reserve. What do you want to talk about?




Would I rather have Ben Bernanke, who is a Harvard graduate with a Ph.D. in economics, run our nation's banking system, or would I rather have a politician like Ron Paul run it?


No one proposed appointing a politician to the head of the United States Treasury. I think someone of equal qualification (of whom there are thousands to millions) as Bernanke, who is outside of the private banking cartel, should by appointed to the head of the United States Treasury.

I want the United States to issue United States Notes, not the Federal Reserve printing Federal Reserve notes for the United States to pay back.

I want the United States to be in control of the United States currency, not a private banking cartel.


Frankly, I am not too impressed with either option. For all the venom against the Federal Reserve, some of which is certainly warranted, I am not 100% convinced that our politicians would be any better. Every conspiracy theorist always says that it would be better if Congress took over the reins of the Federal Reserve,


Never seen anyone say this in my lifetime, through all the research I've done. Consensus is... get RID of the Federal Reserve.

You didn't answer this question but eluded to it in a different response... The Federal Reserve has nothing to do with our Federal government. They are a privately owned bank.. completely outside of United States jurisdiction.

The way it is now, every tax day, we pay back the Federal Reserve for our notes that were so graciously loaned to us. The money is profit for this private bank, and the money goes OVERSEAS to the owners of the Federal Reserve. I would like this tax money to stay at home.

Abolish them.

Restore power to the United States Treasury as the sole proprietor of our currency as it was originally intended.


So, in fairness, to answer your question, to me it doesn't really matter. Whoever runs the Federal Reserve - whether it's Congress or the private banking cartel - either way, I think we probably aren't going to be too happy.


You keep talking around the Federal Reserve like its a government entity. I know you know better. The Federal Reserve IS the private banking cartel. And we are being charged by the private banking cartel to come into our country and take control of our money system.

If EVERYONE got the real history lesson on the Federal Reserve, they would demand that Congress return power to the United States Treasury.

Instead, they've tacked "Federal" onto it and everyone has accepted it as part of what this country is... when it not only isn't part of this country, it's not even under the jurisdiction of this country.


At least in the private sector of banking - at the retail level - there is competition and there is a profit motive, which means that efficiencies are important to banks, and that - in a lot of cases - banks compete for your business. I view that as generally a good thing for the consumer.


This is a textbook response and not a real world response. We live in a mangled mutt model of captialism and socialism and what you say sounds great under a free market... but we don't have one.


If you let the government run the banking sector (which might be inevitable one day anyhow), I don't think you'd be too impressed with their level of service, efficiency, or accountability. I think it would be bad for business. At least with privately owned banks, they do their best most of the time to provide above average service. Not so much at the big bank level, but certainly at the community banking level.


LOL. Service? Efficiency? Accountability? Who manipulates interest rates to provide us a "good service" ? The Federal Reserve. Who can't account for 9 trillion dollars ? The Federal Reserve. Who refuses to be audited and never has? The Federal Reserve.

It would be HORRIBLE for the Federal Reserve if the people demanded service, efficiency, and accountability.


Funny enough, as an aside note, I find it absolutely ironic that during the real estate boom, when lending criteria was loose as a goose, the American taxpayer never really complained. No, they were happy as a clam that any borrower with a pulse could buy a $500,000 house with no money down, no verification of income, at interest-only, as a speculative "house flipping" real estate investment.

Now that we have seen what happens to banks that lend too freely, the American taxpayer is up in arms and angry at the banking sector!!!!

You can't have it both ways: You can't have loosey-goosey credit and a stable banking sector. It's just not possible.


And you can't have foreign interests own your currency system and expect them to do what's best for your country either.

I agree that a lot of the anger is misdirected.

In my opinion this is actually a problem with no solution. Presidents and wise men tried to warn us about the banking cartel, but it happened anyway.

"Give me control of a nations currency and I care not who makes its laws" - a Rothschild

He's right, and they already won. They stopped it once or twice (private central bank) but ultimately, as you wrote the paper about, they got exactly what they wanted.

And looks like you were smart enough to play for the winning team ... good for you


[edit on 16-5-2010 by ImaNutter]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


I personally think Big Ben is doing a pretty good job. He is good at keeping his mouth shut and doesn't need to speak other than to say "Extended Period Of Time". That and a strong dollar puts him in the drivers seat at least for the time being.

To most of the detesters the simple phrase "Hindsight is always 20/20" needs to be brought up.

Anyway, Ben B. did not get us into this mess and most financial professionals I am sure would agree Alan G. and his low rates in early 2000's most likely fueled this and IMO strictly congress for their lax and ridiculous home loan mortgage agreements.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:11 PM
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No one proposed appointing a politician to the head of the United States Treasury.

If you strip the Federal Reserve of its powers, and empower Congress to take control of the monetary system, then you have politicians running the Federal Reserve or similar entity.

Who would you propose as a candidate to replace Bernanke?

And, even if you found a candidate of equal or better credentials, do you really honestly believe that the Federal Reserve can be abolished? I think it's unlikely to happen in either of our lifetimes unless we see a complete breakdown of our modern society, which I hope I don't live to see.



I want the United States to be in control of the United States currency, not a private banking cartel.

We can all dream, can't we? I think it is a foregone conclusion that this will never happen whether you like it or not. I prefer to stay firmly grounded in reality, and avoid delving too far into fantasy land.



They are a privately owned bank..


Yep, well the government outsources quite a number of traditional government services to private entities. This is nothing new. Even in wartime, nations have been known to hire private armies to fight alongside the nation's army.

The government has, and will continue to outsource functions. Prince Charles likes to call them, "private-public partnerships". Such a warm and fuzzy phrase.



The Federal Reserve IS the private banking cartel.

Aside from saving money on interest, what other benefits would be derived from abolishing the Federal Reserve?

Honestly, the government doesn't have a stellar record of running things very well. I remain unconvinced that a government bureaucrat would be any better at managing our monetary policy than private interests. In fact, one could argue that a government bureaucrat would actually do much worse.



It would be HORRIBLE for the Federal Reserve if the people demanded service, efficiency, and accountability.

I wasn't referring to the Fed. I was referring to private retail banks. You know, the kind that the average Joe visits when he goes to make a withdrawal at his local retail bank branch? If the banking system were ever to become nationalized, I think it would hurt business, and hurt the consumer. Today, banks compete for your business, and this plays out well for the consumer. There are plenty of options in the marketplace for retail banking.

If banks are nationalized, and become more like your local Department of Motor Vehicles, then I think you can expect a pretty permanent recession lasting for the remainder of our lifetimes.



I agree that a lot of the anger is misdirected.


Thank you.



He's right, and they already won. They stopped it once or twice (private central bank) but ultimately, as you wrote the paper about, they got exactly what they wanted. And looks like you were smart enough to play for the winning team ... good for you

I didn't write any papers, thank you. And I don't play for any teams. What I am after is the pure, objective truth. Not misinformation. Not slander. And certainly not conspiracy theories.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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I hate anything that pushes people down. I hate that comercial that has a can and everyone shakes it and it says save on it. Thats exactly what you have too, a bunch of small change amounting to nothing that can actually help you out. because the system took it all from you and this is what is left. Then they tell you to save it in thier bank. P.I.G.S, (persons in greed )need a reality check. My money is not yours to prosper on. OK, big banks. HEY OBAMA, you want to help the people of america, stop giving my money to bail out the banks. GIVE THE MONEY to make jobs for the peoples so they can pay for their mortgages that are owned by the banks. you would of helped the people and the mortgage meltdown at the same time. BUT NO, you gave it to the filthy rich bankers on top. YEAH, to help the poor , bail out the rich bank. Makes sense, hmmmmmmm GOOD IDEA obama. you should try that tactic more often and see where your country goes, TO HELL. UNDERSTAND. are you trying to kill U.S.A, OBAMA?



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 


"And, even if you found a candidate of equal or better credentials, do you really honestly believe that the Federal Reserve can be abolished? I think it's unlikely to happen in either of our lifetimes unless we see a complete breakdown of our modern society, which I hope I don't live to see."

It's all a bit too late for that.

Fractual banking and interest requires grouth to pay the interest off and grouth is tied to energy and that energy is running out bit by bit so long term we are doomed but with all the debt the west has that won't be paid back because it is securied on property that will drop in vaule then the seeds are sown.

The say the UK has £90,000 of public debt per houshold and others put it at £23,000 per person but by the time you apply these fugures to the number of people working and exclude those working for goverment then you need to times the amounts by a factor of three.

We are doing well just to pay the interest on this loan, never mind our own debt too.

When it cashes tell em to keep the dedt, taxes, savings and police state and don't accept 50 cents on the $ for the amro and it's carbon tax bill.

Base rates in the UK is 0.5% so can you guess what way the are going or energy costs or pension costs for an ageing nation because i can and no matter what way you look at the figures we are stuffed unless you think the Quantitive Easing tap can be left runing 4ever.

It's happening now like it or not, ready or not.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

And, even if you found a candidate of equal or better credentials, do you really honestly believe that the Federal Reserve can be abolished? I think it's unlikely to happen in either of our lifetimes unless we see a complete breakdown of our modern society, which I hope I don't live to see.


I closed my last post saying they had already won.



We can all dream, can't we? I think it is a foregone conclusion that this will never happen whether you like it or not. I prefer to stay firmly grounded in reality, and avoid delving too far into fantasy land.


see above



Yep, well the government outsources quite a number of traditional government services to private entities. This is nothing new. Even in wartime, nations have been known to hire private armies to fight alongside the nation's army.

The government has, and will continue to outsource functions. Prince Charles likes to call them, "private-public partnerships". Such a warm and fuzzy phrase.


Maybe we differ in that I believe a nations currency should not be outsourced.





The Federal Reserve IS the private banking cartel.

Aside from saving money on interest, what other benefits would be derived from abolishing the Federal Reserve?

We would take back control of our Political System. Money talks bullcrap walks. Corruption is rampant. The reason you actually get to say "Boy, I don't even really think our government would do a good job either." is because politicians are supporting their financial interests. Remove the ring of thieves, and you can take away a source of a lot of the corruption. Plain and simple.

The quote I posted fits here. "Give me control of a nations currency and I care not who makes it laws."

It would give us some soveirgnty back.

We would see things done that are actually for the good of the country.



Honestly, the government doesn't have a stellar record of running things very well. I remain unconvinced that a government bureaucrat would be any better at managing our monetary policy than FOREIGN private interests.


fixed that for you.

Once again, didn't ask for politicians to be head of the Treasury. Who would I pick? I haven't researched all the Economists out there so I can't answer that.







I wasn't referring to the Fed. I was referring to private retail banks. You know, the kind that the average Joe visits when he goes to make a withdrawal at his local retail bank branch? If the banking system were ever to become nationalized, I think it would hurt business, and hurt the consumer. Today, banks compete for your business, and this plays out well for the consumer. There are plenty of options in the marketplace for retail banking.


Sure a free market sounds wonderful. We don't have one. Instead, we let some firms/banks fail and we give others trillions. We tout capitalistic principles as our cornerstone in America then spice it up with a heavy dosing of socialism.

But yeah sure, more options means more competition means better result for the consumer yes I took a basic economics class.


If banks are nationalized, and become more like your local Department of Motor Vehicles, then I think you can expect a pretty permanent recession lasting for the remainder of our lifetimes.


I would like to see power of issuing United States currency returned soley to the United States Treasury. Banks can operate privately for profit, that is a good idea, but I would prefer when they need money they get it from the United States and not from a private foreign company.



I didn't write any papers, thank you. And I don't play for any teams. What I am after is the pure, objective truth. Not misinformation. Not slander. And certainly not conspiracy theories.


I went back and looked and I have to apologize, it was another member who said they wrote a paper about Jekyll Island.

If you were after pure objective truth you would answered my 3 questions earlier truthfully
Wanna talk about misinformation, geesh.

And since maybe you don't know (I was under the impression you were the one that said they wrote the 20 page paper about Jekyll Island) about Jekyll Island... maybe you aren't aware that this is actually by every and all definitions... a true conspiracy.

A handful of the richest men meet offshore on a secluded island, lie about it, draft the idea for the Federal Reserve, get it passed.... and you don't call this a conspiracy against the people?

It appears to me the last thing you care about is objective truth.

edit: Okay, that last sentence right there ^^^ .. I will say that you are doing a good job of informing people the shady games that were going on in these firms... but when it comes to the Federal Reserve you act like they are a necessity and that's pretty disappointing. Your quest for truth ends just before the Federal Reserve begins.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by ImaNutter]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09
If you strip the Federal Reserve of its powers, and empower Congress to take control of the monetary system, then you have politicians running the Federal Reserve or similar entity.


I'd rather have incompetant fools running our banking system than bribed hunks of meat. At least they will honestly try, regardless if they fail or succeed. Big difference!

I suspect a lot of this anti-government rehtoric comes from people that WANT to keep everything private, including government and banking. Yes our federal government is private, technically a corporation, formed with the ACT OF 1873.


Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Who would you propose as a candidate to replace Bernanke?


The Secretary of the Treasury, who ever it happens to be.


Originally posted by CookieMonster09
And, even if you found a candidate of equal or better credentials, do you really honestly believe that the Federal Reserve can be abolished? I think it's unlikely to happen in either of our lifetimes unless we see a complete breakdown of our modern society, which I hope I don't live to see.


You already admitted that congress can abolish the Federal Reserve Bank anytime they wish. If congress is unwilling to do so, which I am rather sure about, perhaps we need a new government and a new constitution.

In other words a full blown revolution!



Originally posted by CookieMonster09
We can all dream, can't we? I think it is a foregone conclusion that this will never happen whether you like it or not. I prefer to stay firmly grounded in reality, and avoid delving too far into fantasy land.


I could not care less what you want and I am certain your comments would enrage at least 90% of the american population that demands a fair deal!


Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Yep, well the government outsources quite a number of traditional government services to private entities. This is nothing new. Even in wartime, nations have been known to hire private armies to fight alongside the nation's army.

The government has, and will continue to outsource functions. Prince Charles likes to call them, "private-public partnerships". Such a warm and fuzzy phrase.


Outsourcing banking, schools, prisons, libraries, military..etc is not acceptable to me. It brings the decay of society.



Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Honestly, the government doesn't have a stellar record of running things very well. I remain unconvinced that a government bureaucrat would be any better at managing our monetary policy than private interests. In fact, one could argue that a government bureaucrat would actually do much worse.


Thats because the politicians we elect have zero sense of duty and are dishonorable bribed hunks of meat. When I vote for someone I expect accountability, not a puppet show.

The private banking MAFIA has DECIMATED THE ENTIRE WORLD! All of these perfectly enginereed financial crisises aim to defraud tax payers, homeowners, social security/welfare recipients, people that used to work for the government sector are getting laid off, etc.



Originally posted by CookieMonster09
I wasn't referring to the Fed. I was referring to private retail banks. You know, the kind that the average Joe visits when he goes to make a withdrawal at his local retail bank branch? If the banking system were ever to become nationalized, I think it would hurt business, and hurt the consumer. Today, banks compete for your business, and this plays out well for the consumer. There are plenty of options in the marketplace for retail banking.

If banks are nationalized, and become more like your local Department of Motor Vehicles, then I think you can expect a pretty permanent recession lasting for the remainder of our lifetimes.


Oh please, save me the BS! I am getting very tired of hearing anti-socialist propaganda.


Originally posted by CookieMonster09
I didn't write any papers, thank you. And I don't play for any teams. What I am after is the pure, objective truth. Not misinformation. Not slander. And certainly not conspiracy theories.


Yet that is EXACTLY what you have been doing for 9 pages. DISINFORMATION!



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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Hey sorry GreenMan I missed your post in the middle there.....


Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by ImaNutter
 


I personally think Big Ben is doing a pretty good job. He is good at keeping his mouth shut and doesn't need to speak other than to say "Extended Period Of Time". That and a strong dollar puts him in the drivers seat at least for the time being.


Man, you don't have a clue....

Your homework is to read Modern Money Mechanics and then come back here and explain to me how the United States is to pay off its debt to the Federal Reserve.


Anyway, Ben B. did not get us into this mess and most financial professionals I am sure would agree Alan G. and his low rates in early 2000's most likely fueled this and IMO strictly congress for their lax and ridiculous home loan mortgage agreements.


This is the same clique. Greenspan, Paulson, Bernanke, Geithner... they are all the same. Different face, same entity. Private baking cartel. Bernanke has been working for the Federal Reserve for a while.. Bernanke served on the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve from 2002-2005... he was groomed for his position he holds now.

Like Geithner was groomed for his. Geithner was the head of the Federal Reserve New York branch before he became Treasurer. Geithner also got his start in Finance by working for Kissinger... and he also had a spell in the CFR.

The problem isn't necessarily the faces we get to see every day. And I'm not proposing they were just given these positions, these men are obviously incredibly intelligent. They have to be to hold these positions and keep the populace as ignorant as they are.

It's actually the people those faces work for and represent and the business model they represent. This business model is anything but good for America. Do your homework and you will see why.

Otherwise I think your defense of Bernanke is hysterical, but it's obviously because you don't know any of the background information surrounding central banking and the Federal Reserve so I forgive you.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by ImaNutter

Man, you don't have a clue....

Your homework is to read Modern Money Mechanics and then come back here and explain to me how the United States is to pay off its debt to the Federal Reserve.


Why should the american tax-payers be burdened with paying off a criminal enterprise such as the Federal Reserve? They CHEATED their way in and we pay?

No way, they should go to hell and NEVER come back! As for the foreign debt we can pay it off with US Treasury notes. If the foreign countries don't accept that...then the hell with them too!

The international central bankers need to be routed off this planet and sent to oblivion because they have caused nothing but pain, sorrow and death to millions/billions.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by ImaNutter

Man, you don't have a clue....

Your homework is to read Modern Money Mechanics and then come back here and explain to me how the United States is to pay off its debt to the Federal Reserve.


Why should the american tax-payers be burdened with paying off a criminal enterprise such as the Federal Reserve? They CHEATED their way in and we pay?


They shouldn't.

But the average citizen has no idea about any of this as day to day life is too much of a strain to bother themselve's with their county's fiscal policy.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


As big as the Federal Reserve conspiracy is, it is actually a drop in the ocean when you look at the big picture. The Federal Reserve has its roots in european central banking, which is controlled primarily by the rothschild family and others to a lesser degree.

The people holding america hostage are the same people holding europe hostage. It is the same people who encourage unbalanced trading with asia and the exploitation of ex-communist nations. Chineese wages can never compare to european or american wages and companies are rushing in to make massive profits while pretending to give us western consumers "cheap prices". Compared to american/european merchandise they are cheap but certainly not anywhere near *at cost*. Of course profit is the motive but if you check out actual chineese merchandis(called knock-offs by many) you will see the prices are still quite inflated to what they should be.

I suspect central bankers have their hands on everything. From controlling governments, to war profiteering, to drug importing and exporting, to alien non-disclosure, to secret socities based on satanism, TO EVERYTHING!



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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A handful of the richest men meet offshore on a secluded island, lie about it, draft the idea for the Federal Reserve, get it passed.... and you don't call this a conspiracy against the people?

Do we have any concrete proof that the meeting on Jeckyll Island ever took place? Anything concrete at all?

And, if it did take place, do you think it would ever become public knowledge? The only things that become public are those things that they powers that be want to become public.

Listen, I have never said that the Federal Reserve is a perfect system. No monetary system is entirely perfect, even if the Federal Reserve were abolished. Even if you could replace the Federal Reserve, I think you would be hard pressed to find a suitable system that was fair and honest for the American people as a whole.




The point I'm trying to make is that interest does NOT have to be paid to corporations in order to have credit or currency. A public agency can be created to provide the same service, but with no obligation to create profits. They can operate by collecting small amounts of interest or fees. No stockholders. No profit motive. Just the people, accountants, and some computers. And credit would be available to anyone with the ability to demonstrate credit-worthiness, the money supply could increase in proportion to increases in commerce, and inflations and depressions wouldn't happen anymore because no one system would have its hands on the levers controlling access to credit or manipulating interest rates.

Who will set interest rates then? A government bureaucrat? How is this any better than the current system?

When you say, "And credit would be available to anyone with the ability to demonstrate creditworthiness", I would remind you where loose lending practices have landed us. In general, most of the time, those with good credit - until recently - had little difficulty obtaining credit.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


Right




posted on May, 18 2010 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09



A handful of the richest men meet offshore on a secluded island, lie about it, draft the idea for the Federal Reserve, get it passed.... and you don't call this a conspiracy against the people?

Do we have any concrete proof that the meeting on Jeckyll Island ever took place? Anything concrete at all?


Yeah sure, I was there and took photographs, transcripts, I know what they ate for lunch, everything. I even got them to sign affidavits. Wanna see?

Have you looked for proof at all?

Show me how much you care about objective truth and find it.

"Give me control of a nation's currency and I care not who makes it laws" - Baron Rotschild


And, if it did take place, do you think it would ever become public knowledge? The only things that become public are those things that they powers that be want to become public.


Yes.

It's called the Federal Reserve. If any citizen so desires, you can inform yourself on what it is and how it got started. They can't white wash their entire history.

And something else to consider is that I'm not the first person to look into the Federal Reserve. I'm not the first one to make a case against it. I'm not the first person to try and research it. And what you find out, is that there are quotes of men all over the place who have been in opposition to them...for the exact reasons that I have logically concluded were sound reasons to oppose them.. and they warned us both before and after. It's not like hate originated for The Federal Reserve with the bank bailouts. Disdain for the private banking cartel has been around since the "First Bank of the United States" and its incarnations since, including the one we have now as The Federal Reserve.

Of course it's out there in the public.

And you know what? People still don't know. Look at poor 'ol GreenBicMan there. Won't be bothered to educate himself, doesn't care. He is the common man, and the common man couldn't care less about this stuff as long as the Ipod is playing the MP3s and update their Facebook status. Which is all fine and dandy we end up the same anyway but this was just to illustrate my point that this can be leaked into the public (hint for your proof: since 1916) and it has absolutely zero impact on their business.


Listen, I have never said that the Federal Reserve is a perfect system. No monetary system is entirely perfect, even if the Federal Reserve were abolished. Even if you could replace the Federal Reserve, I think you would be hard pressed to find a suitable system that was fair and honest for the American people as a whole.


Yes, it's certainly unreasonable to expect perfection. I don't think it is unreasonable however for a nation to be in control of its own currency.

We've both already agreed that this game is long over anyway, so we're just talking philosophy.

And my philosophy is that the United States Treasury should be in total control of the United States dollar. It's really rather simple. But this is anything but a simple world.

reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


lol .. Thanks for proving my point. Have a good one....


[edit on 18-5-2010 by ImaNutter]



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The private banking MAFIA has DECIMATED THE ENTIRE WORLD! All of these perfectly enginereed financial crisises aim to defraud tax payers, homeowners, social security/welfare recipients, people that used to work for the government sector are getting laid off, etc.


And the polititians dance to their tune and betray the people, regardless.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Who will set interest rates then? A government bureaucrat? How is this any better than the current system?


Do away with 'interest', stop the bwanksters making money from other peoples, usually hard earned money, do away with the never-never construct. Let the money-traders find more useful, worthwhile work, like cleaning up the toxic effects their profit before all else, has had on the planet, like providing care and support to all those families they have destroyed with their overt promotion of greed.

Let the bwanksters' government whores enjoy the same degradation, just as they currently enjoy the same privileges.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Do we have any concrete proof that the meeting on Jeckyll Island ever took place? Anything concrete at all?



There's a plaque in the clubhouse at Jekyll Island, Georgia that says "In this room the Federal Reserve System was created."



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:30 AM
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Well people will soon start to read up on whats going on as the austerity measures start to kick in so we get less services and more taxes.

The uk is talking about £6bn cuts which is going to do nothing to the £2000bn debt we have and it will continue to go up and the only difrence will be the richer gets more assets and the poor are cheated out their homes.

Can we cash all our gambling chips from the FTSE in to pay this off !

I suspect not




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