Is anyone actually buying into this load of crap?

reply to post by ImaNutter


Anytime you would like to discuss reality and not your ideology of what the perfect economy is I am all ears.

But you can leave the Jeckyll Island etc. out of it. I read the book. It is about as dark as a picture you can possibly paint ever on one time period in financial history. A lot of bleak adjectives etc. I think it is a waste of time personally.

But I am in the camp of not thinking the FED is inherently evil. We need a central banking system, and no, we can not use gold or barter for chickens.

So, if you would like to debate the finer issues that deal with fact and the reality of here and now I will be waiting.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Who owns the Federal Reserve?

How do we pay them back?

Why do you prefer a central bank to a national bank?

Answer those three questions and tell me if you still think the Fed is aces.



[edit on 18-5-2010 by ImaNutter]

reply to post by ImaNutter


How would this national bank interact with the international community.

Who would run this.

[Insert 1000 other questions by default]

A simple search should yield you the rest of your information you are inquiring about.

Like I said if you would like to discuss current policy and the results of said policies I am all for it.

But if not, you can just file this thread in the bunk category with the other 1,932,232 threads on here with the same exact substance.

"Have you read Jeckyll Island" etc..

It's getting old.

Originally posted by LieBuster
The uk is talking about £6bn cuts which is going to do nothing to the £2000bn debt we have and it will continue to go up and the only difrence will be the richer gets more assets and the poor are cheated out their homes.

Wipe the slate clean!

Most of the deficit is just to service the interest on the original debt, it's a fake value, made up, a con!

Governments should hold the banks to ransom! Refuse to pay interest ever again, demand that all banks be non-profit making and only charge reasonable fee to cover each transaction or overhead. No more made up interest rates, imagined profits, that do not exist anywhere but their accounting rooms, no more gambling bonus game culture! All surplus income to be paid to treasury coffers, the proceeds of which refunded equally to each tax-payer.

This commercial is pure proof that the banks are losing control of their clients. people do not trust the banks anymore. They are trying to say that if you don't put your money in the bank, your a bad citizen? give me a break! These bankers are eating dirt, and that is the only reason they made this commercial. When California started going down hill with their state debt, they started shooting commercials explaining why people should visit California or move there. People cannot buy into this false propaganda! You are not a bad citizen for not using the bank system you are just back-lashing against the evil tyrants!

In one part a man says a bank is suppose to be a pillar or something of prosperity. HA hardly! Banks only cause more debt for the "citizens" and the prosperity is only for those in charge. Please! This is why I don't use banks, I despise them. I worked in one and it was ridiculous how bad people were scammed and they couldn't even see it.

Originally posted by slt63366
The federal reserve and your local bank are two completely different entities.

Slt63366,

Please expand on this.

Do we have local banks that are entirely independent of the Federal Reserve?

Just finished reading this excellent and thought-provoking thread. Kudos to all for their commentary. A few observations:

ImANutter, 30_seconds, et al: you are correct in your thinking that a nation that controls its own currency is more fiscally sound and more sovereign than one which does not. Financially, that is the very essence of sovereignty and freedom; this is why we have neither today in America. Unfortunately, this is not only the fault of the banking cartels, but due to the irresponsible greed and avarice of Americans from before the inception of the united States. The nation is not only bankrupt, it is bankrupt six times deep, at least. At each turn, those charged with our political responsibilities could have paid the debts of this country, and while I suspect that bribery and chicanery were behind the decision to default each time, the fact remains that default we did. A decent explanation of this and how it effected changes in our political and economic structure is available here.

To CookieMonster, wow, you have spent an incredible amount of time and effort defending the banks and a little bit defending the Fed, and for that, and for the wealth of information you have about the sub-prime mortgage aspect of the current financial crisis, I commend you. I wonder just how representative of the banking industry as a whole your one example of solvency, this Comerica bank, is though? I must add though that your logic in defending the Fed by damning the politicians who might take over those responsibilities is both apt and specious. One cannot ignore the influence of the banking interests and their ability to turn seemingly moral men from the righteous path to one of their choosing by offering wealth and privilege that cannot be attained through any other means than accepting their bribes. The banking cartels also underwrite every institution in our society, even those that clam to oppose them, and in particular the institutions of education that inform the finest minds in our civilizations. The system of "corporate media" is their creation, as is the ideology of elite experts which must and do inform the uneducated masses of that which it is deemed best for them to know and withhold from them that which is best for them not to know. Truly, they control the horizontal. They control the vertical. They can deluge you with a thousand channels, or expand one single image to crystal clarity. What would the world be like without the influence of their sin? One cannot imagine, but that does not mean that we should accept the yoke of their domination without question, without attempting to create a system that is better. After all, that is the spirit that inspired the creation of these united States, isn't it? But the same logic you use to defend the Fed against a sovereign monetary system was used quite effectively to defraud the people of San Francisco of free electrical power that was granted them by the Raker Act, until Secretary of the Interior James Watt voided the act with the stroke of a pen during George Herbert Walker Bush's presidency. And similarly, until that happened, PG&E used bribery and political chicanery to prevent the common voter from understanding why the City of San Francisco's political structure should and could have created an office to oversee the distribution of this free electricity throughout the city. The city father s themselves denounced it, and many then used the wealth that they received from this graft to launch national political careers (a la Diane Feinstein).

There are a few points that no one has delved into yet about the banking industry as a whole (sorry CookieMonster, but even though the commercial may be from a single bank, it is promoting the industry of banking, not just itself as an entity, and so I am not going to restrict my comments to "Mom and Pop" banks, "brick and mortar" banks, and the like, so don't cry foul).

One of these (touched upon, but not explained) is the designed impossibility of paying back the so-called national debt. As the Fed, I create 1 billion dollars and loan it to the government at 1% interest. The government then is obligated to pay me back 1 billion, 10 million dollars. But where does the 10 million come from? If I print it for them, then they now owe me that 10 million plus 1% interest, or 10 million 1 hundred thousand dollars? Where does the 1 hundred thousand dollars come from? If I print it... You get the picture. The debt can never be repaid, and it will always grow to gargantuan proportions that will leave the Fed (or other banking cartel entity) owning every asset that the nation has, including the people who are the only real energy source behind all commerce anyway. This is the meaning of Jefferson's warning against central banking: "...their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." And isn't that the situation that we find ourselves in today, through mechanisms controlled by our central bank?

The uses of US currency and especially Federal Reserve Notes to bolster/stabilize/bailout/inhibit foreign currencies is a thread unto itself, but bears mention here because for every dollar thus created, even though it is never spent or used within our shores, the American taxpayer owes interest. And who controls this international distribution of currency? The private banking cartels (the Fed and similar central banks throughout the world). Does the US government have any control or oversight of this process? Hell no! In fact, my own suspicion (this is simply speculation, not intended as a representation of researched fact) is that throughout our history the bulk of US dollars, in whatever form they were created, has found its home overseas and not for use in our own national economy.

And CookieMonster, the Mom and Pop and brick and mortar banks do have their role in the creation of money (credit) out of "thin air." The Fed creates money upon demand--demand of the Treasury Department, and upon the demand of its bosses: us, individual human beings. When you write a check, the money doesn't actually come out of your checking account: the Fed creates those dollars anew, and the bank moves the requested sum from the ledger of your checking account into the ledger of the banks assets, and issues payment for the check from the new monies created.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

How would this national bank interact with the international community.

The same way in which countries that have them today use them...

Who would run this.

The United States... ???

A simple search should yield you the rest of your information you are inquiring about.

Yet you're incapable and unwilling to do anything for yourself.

Thanks for proving my point about the common man

Like I said if you would like to discuss current policy and the results of said policies I am all for it.

Current policy states we are to pay back debt to the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is not a government entity, in any way shape or form. The Federal Reserve is a private foreign company. So for the United States to have money at all under this model, we take it out on loan from a private foreign company. Please look at any bill in your pocket and please note that it says "Federal Reserve Note." This means that we are to pay back The Federal Reserve, with interest on the money issued.

The implications of this are staggering, and I'm not surprised you don't understand this. A lot of people don't, don't feel bad.

The national debt is a national debt to a foreign private company.

The national debt, under this current model, is impossible to ever pay down.

Tell me how you think we would accomplish this.

Or dodge the substance and spend another 1000 characters saying nothing at all.

What's the point of answering questions with questions? You can't even show me that you have elementary knowledge on this subject, and I'm supposed to answer your questions?

The lazy end entitled are getting old.

Look at without_prejudice's post up above... They're mentally equipped to have this discussion. You are not.

[edit on 18-5-2010 by ImaNutter]

reply to post by ImaNutter


Jesus

Nevermind.

Have a nice evening.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

Jesus

Nevermind.

Have a nice evening.

Proving my points, one post at a time.

Thank you GreenBicMan.

This is outrageous!!! Such a load of B*****T! Please dont tell me that someone is actually buying this!Banks are nothing but parasites!!!I, I dont know what to say...This made me reaaalllly MAD!

Banks are out to fool the public. Any legislation that makes them have less profit and I get a letter from them. They act like it is something they thought up to help me out. LIARS!!

Upon doing a little extra research, I discovered the american government in its entirety is corporately owned. All the departments are registered in the state of delaware.

FEDERAL RESERVE ASSOCIATION (Federal Reserve) Non-profit Delaware
Corporation Incorporation date 9/13/14 File No. 0042817

INTERNAL REVENUE TAX AND AUDIT SERVICE (IRS) For Profit General
Delaware Corporation Incorporation date 7/12/33 File No. 0325720

CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AUTHORITY INC. (CIA) For Profit General Delaware Corporation Incorporation Date 3/9/83 File No. 2004409

SOCIAL SECURITY CORP, DEPART. OF HEALTH, EDUCATION AND WELF For-Profit General Delaware Corporation Incorporation date: 11/13/89 File No. 2213135

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST--------------DRUM ROLL-------------

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. Non-profit Delaware Corporation Date 4/19/89 File No. 2193946

Thomas Jefferson said it best "The price of peace is eternal vigilance." We have let our guard down for way too long and the PTB have screwed us over big time.

Or how about the treasury department...........

UNITED STATES TREASURY / U.S. TREASURY, INC. Incorporation Date
02/08/1990 File No. 2221617 For profit General Delaware Corporation."

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Yup America is a corporation not a country, very sad.


I saw a really good documentary about this and I can't remember what is was called. It was recent but it was a youtube video. It was a documentary but I don't know if it aired on tv.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Yup America is a corporation not a country, very sad.


I saw a really good documentary about this and I can't remember what is was called. It was recent but it was a youtube video. It was a documentary but I don't know if it aired on tv.

Did you notice that the majority of USA departments have been incorporated during the last 2-3 decades? I find that very strange!

I thought most of the damage was done during the late 19th-early 20th century but apparently the PTB are still at it.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Yeah I started reading about this when I read about the Rothschild family. They seem like the ones who own America. It's crazy to read about. I couldnt believe the things I have read, esp in regards to the banking industry.

To CookieMonster, wow, you have spent an incredible amount of time and effort defending the banks and a little bit defending the Fed, and for that, and for the wealth of information you have about the sub-prime mortgage aspect of the current financial crisis, I commend you.

Thank you. (Exit stage left!)

I wonder just how representative of the banking industry as a whole your one example of solvency, this Comerica bank, is though?

Certainly, there will plenty of banks that will be taken over by the FDIC in the next couple of years. I think that is a given.

Nevertheless, there are still some very strong, brand name retail banks that have strong capitalization. To suggest that all banks are leveraged 10-1 is just not an accurate representation of the facts.

The proof is in the pudding: For any publicly traded bank, you can easily pull up their financial statements online and see what kind of deposits they hold, and what kind of assets they have. There is more transparency out there then a lot of people think. They just might have to brush up on their accounting a bit, and remember what a Balance Sheet looks like.

Regarding your discussion of the Federal Reserve, I think that this is a separate discussion altogether. As GreenBicMan stated earlier, one that has been hashed and re-hashed on these forums numerous times. I have nothing further to add then what I have already stated: 1.) Good luck abolishing the Federal Reserve. 2.) Conspiracy theory idealism to the contrary, even if you were successful in abolishing the Federal Reserve, you would be hard pressed to find a suitable replacement system. 3.) Government bureaucrats running our monetary system would be a complete disaster. I'd take a private-public partnership over government bureaucracy any day of the week. 4.) No one ever said the Federal Reserve system is perfect.

And CookieMonster, the Mom and Pop and brick and mortar banks do have their role in the creation of money (credit) out of "thin air." The Fed creates money upon demand--demand of the Treasury Department, and upon the demand of its bosses: us, individual human beings. When you write a check, the money doesn't actually come out of your checking account: the Fed creates those dollars anew, and the bank moves the requested sum from the ledger of your checking account into the ledger of the banks assets, and issues payment for the check from the new monies created.

Kooky. I can assure you that banks have deposits, and they also have significant assets. They don't need to create money "out of thin air".

Look, if 50 people each deposit $100,000 in 6 month Certificate of Deposits at the bank, and you stroll into my bank looking for a $20,000 loan, I can assure you that the bank doesn't need to "create money out of thin air" to give you the $20,000 in certified funds at the time of closing. Assuming you're creditworthy, the loan could close within 24 hours or less in most cases. No goofy accounting gimmickry, no silly Mickey Mouse games, no funny "money out of thin air" tricks. The bank has the money - It's on deposit.

How can the bank do this? Well, for starters the bank has figured out, much like an actuary, that the likelihood of all 50 depositors withdrawing $100,000 over the next 6 months is relatively unlikely. Sure, you might have a handful that decide to cash in early due to better rates somewhere else, a family emergency, etc. But, by and large, statistically speaking, assuming that there isn't some major run on the banks or national emergency, the bank will retain these funds on deposit for the next 6 months, rain or shine.

The bank also earns profits - interest if you will. With these profits, the banks has its own checking account, so to speak, where it can invest as it chooses. In general, next to oil companies, banks have been historically very profitable businesses.

The banks are in deep trouble... as is every ponzi game when it stops expanding but this is happening at the same time that entire world economies are hitting multiple brick walls called scarcity.

The mere act of buying a little physical gold and silver helps induce more honest government.

The head of China told citizens to acquire gold and silver. Chinese Expats in the US have been making 5 digit physical purchases..

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[edit on 18-5-2010 by seataka]