Non Americans You Don't Know Anything...........About OUR Immigration Crisis

The United States is going bankrupt and is soon going to dissolve anyway, so who cares? Borders are soon to be a thing of the past. Get ready for communal anarchy.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
The United States is going bankrupt and is soon going to dissolve anyway, so who cares? Borders are soon to be a thing of the past. Get ready for communal anarchy.

Well I'm glad to see that some people are staying positive. Show me where you think that the entire US is going to resolve. I personally think that some huge change may occur, but for the United States to go away completely I can not agree with.

It's not only a country located within imaginary lines, it's an idea. Can't take away people's thoughts.

Originally posted by Dwellewd

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
The United States is going bankrupt and is soon going to dissolve anyway, so who cares? Borders are soon to be a thing of the past. Get ready for communal anarchy.

Well I'm glad to see that some people are staying positive. Show me where you think that the entire US is going to resolve. I personally think that some huge change may occur, but for the United States to go away completely I can not agree with.

It's not only a country located within imaginary lines, it's an idea. Can't take away people's thoughts.

I think America will exist as a concept for a long time more, but as a nation-state with a centralized government and a president, I think that is at the end of its days.

Originally posted by rebeldog

really, we sir see not only a way to STOP THIS, we have many ways WRITTEN IN HISTORY BOOKS about how to regain that which we have lost. How did scandinavia become so nice? do what they did!!!!!

Hmmm ... you are wanting America to become like Scandinavia?
- Democratic socialist?

No less a "capitalist tool" than Forbes Magazine let a red cat out of the bag with a report this month that the happiest countries tend to be Scandinavian socialist democracies. High per-capita GDP certainly plays a role in their felicity, but even social democratic New Zealand, with per-capita GDP only 64 percent of the United States', ranks with the 10 democracies above us in the happiness index. They pay high taxes in these pinkotopias, but folks enjoy entitlements like free college, extensive elder care, and 52-week paid maternity leave.

www.globalresearch.ca...

Originally posted by kimchee

[quote]
Hmm .. how can an illegal person get a drivers license and a social security card ..? don't you have to show multiple documents of proof ..?

wiki.answers.com...

Kimchee ..

I believe the requirements of drivers license or SSN is under the umbrella of DHS after 9-11.. they make the rules nation wide .. I don't think illegals would be able to get a DL or SSN even in NM .. perhaps there are some corrupt elements being bribed .. but if you could be so kind as to provide more links .. I'd appreciate it ...
This is interesting because if there are some states that allow this .. it would be a massive security flaw .. the feds would be all over it ..

I had to take a survey today for work it was. Automatically in Spanish, why? We are not a Spanish speaking nation, I shouldn't have to change things to English when I have to do things online, or the phone its ridiculous

Nothing makes me happier than watching Americans cry at there country falling a part.

America got 400 years of free slave labor between Natives, Latinos and Blacks.
These people had slave farms producing as many slave babies as they possible can.

It's amazing watching White America blame everyone else for their problems instead of their own leaders.
Mr.Rothschild is worth an Estimated 500 trillion, why haven't you people gone and asked him and Mr.Rockefeller to sign a nice check to get you out of the $500 trillion debt your in?

You have your super rich leaders hogging money in your own country / race and your blaming the most poor, helpless people doing borderline slave labor for taking crappy jobs in the land that belonged to them anyways.

Watching the down fall of America is a great thing and it just feels good.

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Originally posted by l neXus l
***snip***
All im saying to you Non Americans is, you don't experience first hand what we are dealing with, maybe you have illegal immigration in your countries, but not to the scale of the United States, so don't tell us how to deal with the Crisis when you cant really see the whole picture,

(this thread is not meant to be derogatory to anyone, just a plea to listen to us here in America, as its affecting us the most)

[edit on 5/14/2010 by l neXus l]

I think that a lot of the critics for stronger immigration laws are simply people who cares more about the ethics and political correctness of things rather than the actual nature of the problem.

This is valid for American citizens as well as non-Americans.

This American can tell the difference between illegal immigration and the drug war. Also, let me critique the statement that they want to change the official language of the nation to Spanish. In order to change an official language, you need one to start with and the US has NO OFFICIAL LANGUAGE. Some states have an official language (English) or more than one de facto official languages (Spanish in NM, French in LA).

No offense, because the OP makes some valid points. But he (she?) nor others should not conflate two different issues, nor should any of us think that attacking the illegals themselves will solve the problem - it most likely will make it worse.

Illegals are not as statistically likely to commit crime as native born Americans. That being said, as I've mentioned before here, the second generation has a tendency to feel pulled from both directions, not satisfying the status quo of either pole.

Second generation Mexican Americans suffer from "ni de alli ni de alla" (English: "neither from here nor from there") syndrome. They don't speak Spanish well - if at all, they don't wear the traditional clothes, they create their own social space that is neither of their parents culture nor necessarily the average American's identity.

Second generation Haitian Americans in South Florida suffer from something similar. They don't totally associate with African-Americans, but the fact that innercity, poverty-induced criminality is part of the culture, they take it wholly as their own. It's not like mainstream America will have them.

This could also be attributed to the Pakistani man who tried to bomb Times Square. I was listening to a Pakistani-American sociologist (or Anthropologist) on NPR. He discussed this type of cultural mixing and what it does to the individual. Some do not relate to either culture and lash out for their own unique identity. Others feel pressured to take sides. For the Pakistani-American who tried to do an act of terror, this is very similar to Mexican-Americans who wave the Mexican flag at rallies over immigration, such as AZ's SB 1070. Clearly, to them, white America will not have them as whole partners in society, so they "lash out" and assume the opposing identity - the Mexican identity.

This is not unique to America nor this moment in time. In WWII and post-WWII era Brazil there was a group of fundamentalist Japanese immigrants who would not accept the loss of the Japanese (keeping in mind that Brazil had the highest rate of Japanese immigration in the Americas). A terrorist group called Shindo Renmei reacted out of this non-acceptance space created by lack of social cohesion.

All in all, the pride witnessed in an ethnic group is a direct reaction to some sort of prejudicial treatment of that group by the whole. Profile and demean illegals at your own peril. They are here now and to deal with them the way SB 1070 wants to will push the "LEGALS" in the group to side with their illegal brethren. I'm not in the mood to see ethnic warfare here, it will tear our society apart.

I'm sure that the same fears felt today were felt by those who saw the masses of Irish, Italian, German, Jewish, Polish, Ukrainian, and Chinese immigrants in the late 1800s. As far as I can tell from my own ethnic heritage, the Irish and Italians did a good job of not only assimilating, but also losing the language of their ancestors (I had to take Italian in school to learn it). Based on my Mexican- and Haitian-American friends, I would say that you do NOT have to worry about Spanish or Creole taking over any more than those in the 1800s did about Italian, German, Russian, Yiddish or what-have-you. Moot point.

Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by l neXus l

 

sorry, one more point with which may also be a hidden agenda as to why EMPLOYERS, WHY? think of all the savings in payroll taxes, liability insurance, etc..SEE... imagine if slave owners didn't even have to feed their slaves!! they could easily tax the free citizens to pay for living expenses while the slave masters reeped all the profits?? BALDERDASH!! a revolt would have happened overnight---by hanging every CEO, manager, EVERYONE!! who participated in it...would they not?

Much of what is driving this insanity is the perpetual greed of Americans.
You're right about the slavery issue yet the slave owners had to pay for the welfare of their slaves.

reply to post by l neXus l


im not even going to read what i expect to be more patriotic veild racisim.

to say that non americans cannot understand a problem in america is probably the most single minded acceptence of ignorance i have EVER seen on ATS!

do you think that noone outside can read and understand america AND that they somehow have no comcept on immigration issues. ... a big HELLO, every country has immigration issues and ALOT of countries canb speak ENGLISH, you know, that language that started in the UK and that americans speak!

seriously dude, check your self, tDENY IGNORANCE, dont go and try to sleep with it!

reply to post by l neXus l


I'm an American citizen living in the UK and I'm embarrassed by the arrogant stupidity of so many Americans and you've just added yourself to that list. Although I can't discount the possibility that you've actually travelled outside of the US, I suspect that most of what you know about the rest of the world comes from reading the newspaper. If you are well-travelled, you have even less excuse for your ignorant rant about non-Americans.

Other repliers have politely suggested that non-Americans might gain from the discussions or even impart some much needed advice and I agree, considering what a crap job Americans have done dealing with this problem over the last 30 years since I was last in Texas.

The American corporatocracy could have extended the well-paid manufacturing base of the US into Mexico bringing them up to our standard negating the need for immigration northwards. Instead they chose, with full backing of the government, to exploit the Mexicans for cheap labor while still being able to label goods as "Made in the USA." This model was then extended to countries like Haiti and beyond. It's a statement on how bad things are in Mexico that even with the employment problems in the US, they still see it as worth the trip.

So instead of politely suggesting that non-Americans get lost, you should be asking for advice or help on fixing your problems. Many South American countries are finally undoing the woes inflicted by US foreign policy and CIA covert ops over the last half century. Studying their recent success might give us a clue on how to regain control of our country. (Read Naomi Klien's Shock Doctrine for detailed information on this subject)

reply to post by JohnJasper


"The American corporatocracy could have extended the well-paid manufacturing base of the US into Mexico bringing them up to our standard negating the need for immigration northwards. Instead they chose, with full backing of the government, to exploit the Mexicans for cheap labor while still being able to label goods as "Made in the USA." This model was then extended to countries like Haiti and beyond. It's a statement on how bad things are in Mexico that even with the employment problems in the US, they still see it as worth the trip. "

You have just exposed the hypocrisy of the "gobalists" who are the exact same people pushing this "love thy neighbor/ fling open your doors/ don't be so selfish" campaign. Their operatives and dupes are right here on this forum. If you think that their agenda isn't behind the push to have people from the most convenient 3rd world country to the US come here, you are very naive. They will just be that much easier to exploit.

OK, please, stop calling yourserlves americans and the rest of the world non-americans. America is a an entire continent composed by several countries, not just the EE UU, so please, cut the "american proud" crap that only exposes ignorance and remember that mexicans are also part of this continent. Thanks and greetings from Argentina. (Yep, also an american country)

Originally posted by thoughtsfull

I hear many Americans stating how my counry (England) is turning Islamic, we'll be living under sharia etc...

To be honest, spending time explaining the difference to what is perceived and what is real has given me a deeper insight into my own culture.. simply saying they should comment without the full fact ends what could be a valuable debate.

BTW. Am 1/8 Cherokee and will continue to talk to my American cousins about issues that affect us both.. sometimes when I can not see the wood for trees their comments help.. I hope the same happens in reverse.

It's not the Muslims I fear, it's the hardcore fanatics that are NOT practicing the Koran directly but using man created excuses to behave in an extreme barbaric way.

In 20 years at current rates of immigration the UK will be totally fanatical based upon numbers. Sharia law WILL be brought in based on this and the UK will take a massive backward step into a third world nation.

I fear this not because I'm white, I fear this because I'm in a mixed marriage with a lovely daughter and wife whose parents are Muslim and THEY fear what's coming, they are scared silly by these religious nut jobs claiming to be Muslim yet show themselves to be ill educated, dangerous and extremely cruel to their own kind.

We will be the first target for their hate, my daughter will be a target for their hate, so yes I do worry hugely about our future and I watch every country slowly but surely getting taken over.

So to the original poster, I truly understand your immigration worries but worry more that it's not just your country under a mess.

reply to post by l neXus l


your only problem is that these jobs that illegals have, no american wants, thats the problem with americans, this country talked enough crap and now its playing for it.....errr...bailing out I should say.

reply to post by l neXus l


Well more or less it's fault of your politics. Your government does not require from all people interested in job any language proficency certificates. Oh, forgot you still don't have decided what's the official language in USA. Companies, who take immigrants are not monitored. You practically allow them to come there. Simply put most of your problems are caused by bad politics.

Video about differences In US politics compared to Scandinavia

In finland there is that funny thing that most people belong to unions and all benefits won by union strike apply to everyone in that sector (In some sectors over 90%!!!). So even if you don't belong to union you will get all the benefits that union workers get. So basically you could joke that her in Finland there are six Major powers: Government, Parliament, Jurisdiction, Media, Unions and Companies. There was even so called triple-pact, where government ,companies and unions decided together how they would manage future salaries and everything related to them. In finnish it's called "Tulopoliittinen kokonaisratkaisu".

Here is more info on it

Here in Finland one Finnish shipbuilding company tried to hire Polish metalworkers as they are cheaper than finnish. Finnish unions raised they concerns about working conditions of Polish workers and reminded that they should be taxed like finns as they work in finland (EU regulations). In the end polish workers, who are here pay their taxes in finland if they work here and get same salary as Finns. Since then boom for importing cheap immigrants to lower costs has been over almost over.
In Finland finnish parliament passed law, which was supposedly invented by one of the largest Finnish company Nokia and thus Lex Nokia.

We still need immigrants in some areas, but now they are paid finnish salary.
I think if Immigration would be not so economical in US you wouldn't have whole problem.
Anyone who gives Job to Illegal immigrants should be charged heavily and this is not happening. So here

[edit on 16-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

reply to post by boaby_phet


I agree completely. I am offended by this thread (I'm an American - United States) and I think the idea of this thread shows what's very wrong about this country. The attitude that only people in the US would know how immigration affects a country is so immature and typically "American" in a bad way. It's everything people hate about us. It's the George W Bush attitude that we're somehow "special" and no one can understand but us. It's a total victim mentality and I absolutely HATE it! It's ignorance, shining brightly.

I've lived in the southwest for half of my life and I KNOW about illegal immigration. And for the author of this thread to say that non-Americans don't know anything about it would be like me saying that people in the Midwest don't know anything about it. It's just an insult that REALLY doesn't deserve the responses and flags that this thread is getting. And this will be my last contribution to this ignorance.

The George Bush years are over! We are the world again. We are one country in this world, not the best, not the worst, just one among many. And we are all in this together. This separatist, superior BS has no place in this world.

And I WELCOME any and all input from people of other countries, whether it be opinions, ideas, comments or suggestions. I speak to invalidate this OP's statements and misguided assumptions. PLEASE share your thoughts on our immigration problem freely!

Thank you.

As a non-American, and proud British, I know everything I need to about American immigration. ALL Americans are immigranst except for the natives. Therefore all this talk and rant about immigrants is a hypocritical wind blowing exercise that serves no function. They should just accept their lowly origins as immigrants who could not make it happen in Britain and some lesser European nations, and fled for the Americas to start again after plundering everything there too. Therefore, Americans should open their eyes to their "immigration crisis" and let in all Mexicans who want to be in the US, and let in all Carib origin people, all Cubans, and just put up with it. All of these immigrants would make America a more tolerant open society and contribute to the economy.

I wouldn't go so far as letting "anyone" in , but the US is at fault for letting people move in, rent apartments, raise kids and settle in their country. They should leagalize those folks and bring them out of the shadows. Going forward, they should have the right to know who is coming and going with proper documentation. But, both your political parties are too weak and pandering to do anything about it...more important to troll for the Latino vote than make a tough, fair decision.