Alien Language, thoughts?

I'm interested in creating this thread, because quicklook through forum revealed no similiar thread.
Anyway, I was wondering what kind Alien written and spoken language is (if they speak). I wish that everyone posting in this thread would give interesting ideas. How aliens communicate and how they language looks like. You may also post pictures from alien language.

I for example have my own theory that Alien language for example "Greys" as people commonly call them is triple-based.
By triple-based I mean that they probably use all of their three fingers to write, since their fingers seem to awfully long according do some "abductee" stories. We humans keep pen in certain way, because our anatomy dictates it. I think that for "Greys" it might be then more natural to write using all three fingers than human way of holding pen.
What comes to speaking I have no idea, but since they have mouth they propably were able or are able to speak.
Even if they use telepathy they as every civilization have to have a way to communicate from generation to generation so I think that written language is a must.

Please remember that I'm not convinced in their existence as this is more like a thought-play....

I'm a real skeptic so give here really good ideas!

[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

reply to post by SpeDeZo


Logically any alien civilization that could band together to travel the vast distances of space would be able to communicate with each other.

They would have to as it is such a complex task that involves such engineering feats and actual mechanical abilities that would just seem impossible to just have a bunch of beings working off the top of their head in a coordinated way.

Whether it is speech as we know it or some sort of telepathy would be the real question. It would make more sense that the evolutionary principals here on Earth would still apply rather than the principals of Hollywood science fiction.

The other point to believe they communicate with each other in some way is imagine you and ten people were building a spacecraft. Now imagine none of you talking to each other. Do you think the result would be any good, or do you think it would be a hodge-podge of bits and pieces that end up in a tangled, unusable mess?

Cheers interesting topic,
Pablo

I'm still on the fence about whether they exist (much less if we've encountered them) but lots of people seem to think that the greys can use some form of telepathy.

Telepathy is usually the transfer of pure thoughts, images and emotions. No need for a language. I would believe since most are 4th, 5th density and higher. They remember EVERYTHING (past lives and all), so no need to write anything down either.

reply to post by SpeDeZo


On the lighter side of the written language check this:

futurama.yellopants.com...

Just a bit of fun. It is actually quite amazing the effort the nerds that make this awesome show have gone to to create this language:

en.wikipedia.org...

Skip down to the language section and wrap your head around the way they code it. The way the second language is done so that the same character can mean any multitude of our letters makes my head spin.

Obviously an alien race would not simply take our alphabet and give it different characters. But you are right. They most likely would have a written language.

Cheers,
Pablo

Well, if you submit to the Ancient Alien theory, that they helped develop humanity and were our Gods, then I suppose it could be reasonable to assume that their written language would be one of a pictographic/heiroglyphic nature, where a symbol represents an idea or sound, in much the same way the modern Chinese language does.

As for a spoken language, I believe that telepathy is the generally accepted form of communication in concensus with popular abduction reports.

reply to post by SpeDeZo

Even if they use telepathy they as every civilization have to have a way to communicate from generation to generation so I think that written language is a must.

Why? If a race is telepathic, what possible use could spoken or written language serve?

Think of the internet. Imagine each member of your telepathic race as a computer on a network. If you want to know something, would it be faster to dig through a book, or simply send out a request to the network for the information you want?

Imagine that pain, pleasure and emotion may be transmitted through your telepathic network. Any time any member of your race feels pain, every other individual can be aware of that pain. Imagine pleasant emotions riplling through the telepathic network, across your civilization.

Do you think that such a race would find it very easy to come to mutual agreement over what is good and desireable? And should any individual feel desire for some piece of knowledge that some other individual has, might that desire also be propagated over the network?

written and spoken language

What possible purpose could these serve for such a race? Do you need encyclopedias when you can have the thoughts of billions of individuals available to you in an instant? Do you need warning signs on dangerous objects when knowledge of those objects is available to and from everyone? Do you need to speak words to the person next to you when you can communicate emotion, sights and sounds to people on the opposite side of the planet?

Let's say you had a written and spoken language.

What would you do with it?


[edit on 14-5-2010 by LordBucket]

reply to post by LordBucket


I can see where you're coming from, but there is still the problem of written commands, like "Danger" and "Mind the Step". Also, it's possible that they might be able to recall everything they know without writing it down, but I doubt it. There would also need to be a written account of their history of times prior to their current generation. Times immemorial to any living member of the psychic network. I do believe that a written language would be required.

ETA: Just read Krazyeddy's post. It's a theory I suppose...

[edit on 14-5-2010 by nik1halo]

reply to post by LordBucket

Very good argument.
If you think about civilization development even "Greys" were once cavemans or anything else primitive in some moment of evolution.
We can speculate weather telepathy was gained skill later on or in very early stage of Grey evolution. I think it was on the later part for various reasons. Greys have mouth which would indicate that in some part of evolution it was useful to them. Question is to what.

Why i think written language is must is because you should think about development of math and engineering.
I you were to design primitive machine for example clock or anything similiar to measure time you would need some symbols to tell you time. Remember, this primitive clock can not message to you through thoughts or images what time is it so symbols are necessary. Leading to point that written language is necessary.
Later on need for symbols might be eliminated but they are necessary to input and extract knowledge from machines. At least in very early stages of engineering.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

Lets say aliens are indeed telepathic. (just for discussion's sake)

Now, you're in your ship, and you've got your sensors going, you want to check your Unimpentium levels, check your thermo-scopes, or what have you....

What kind of a display do you look at? Instruments aren't telepathic (although conceivably it could be possible)... So yes, it would seem conceivable that even a telepathic race would still have and likely use a written language for some things (even if just as a backup).

Alien writing has been in some abductee accounts, of course, and in the infamous Roswell case, and the Bob Lazar case....regardless of one's feelings on such cases...so there are examples of it in the case history.

Most seem to agree on a pictogram-based language with simplified geometric designs (usually featuring angles and closed circles, and triangles are prevalent). But, the descriptions can then vary wildly from account to account....

I think its fair to say that any communication which occurs between extra terrestrials would have to be fairly elegant, and deeply complex all at once.
However, to suggest that written language would be a part of thier culture assumes far to much about our hypothetical friends. To explain why , let me remind you of something.
Here on earth there are loads of languages spoken by humanity, right from english , to the tribal tongues of deepest south america. Aside from that, we have languages which are designed for a specific purpose, like mathematics, binary, programing languages, sign language.
Now condsider the sheer amount of difference here. Just within the human language sets available for our study , there are some which share alphabets with english, and there are many which have thier own individual characters and grammar associated with them. Further more, in the case of some tribal languages, they are not ever written down, and merely passed from generation to generation.
Ok , so now consider the animal languages of the earth. Now Im not saying that these are in any way as detailed or elegant as human speech , but bear with me . Animals on land tend to use a mixture of things to convey simple concepts like hunger, sickness, alarm, and contentment. But they do it in a bewildering array of ways, including many non vocal cues such as by smell and body language. In the sea Dolphins and Whales use sonar like vocalisations to communicate, and they are rumoured to have very complex social interactions, which would suggest a fairly advanced method of communication, and again, none of thise species has ever written these things down.
I guess what I am saying, is that just on THIS PLANET there are communication methods, and languages which are superbly effective, but some of them can never be written down, have no alphabet, and do not conform to what modern linguistics can identify as regular language. Some do not even involve a vocal element and rely entirely on minute changes in smell, or behavior.
Now think about the biological possibilities of an alien race... hard to do ? I should bloody well think so ! The biodiveristy of our own world is staggering enough , let alone the communicative cpabilities of a visitor from another star system! For all we know at this point , the hypothetical alien may not have a spoken form of language, it may be a mix of olfactory and telepathic communion for all we know !
I think before we start trying to learn about the language of the alien, I think it might well be a good idea to study its general biology, then we might have some idea of what communication methods is it capable of.
Just an after thought on the insistance that written language is a must for advanced life forms... There may be means of sealing telepathic information in objects, that we cannot concieve of, there is NO reason to assume that ONLY beings with the capacity for mark making have the capability of creating a society capable of star travel. We have a lot more books than starships on our planet in case you hadnt noticed!

[edit on 14-5-2010 by TrueBrit]

reply to post by TrueBrit


Idea of sealing information to objects i certainly interesting. But it only would make sense if creatures would have smell as their major sense instead of vision. Imagine creatures that have extremely good sense of smell and they would code their information using smell or any other substance change system (hormones?, pressure etc.).
I'm not denying that such a creature exists, but possibility is really, extra, extra slim.


There is one logical assumption for aliens, and that they are predators like us.At least in beginning?
Why?
It seems that hunting requires usually teamwork, 3D-view so eyes are at front and quick situation analysis, at least that comes to my mind at first. In nature in plants proteins are not so common, but human brain requires proteins to develop. Only way to get needed amount of protein is to eat other animals. So it's only natural to think that we owe our brain capacity growth to proteins. Proteins are important in forming brains hormones and strenghening electrical impulses in our brains.
So yes, all intelligent alien races were or are still predators.

4th density BEINGS be using light signals. 5th density beings use sighn language but since it is another dimension their sign language sounds like works. This is established scientific fact.

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
reply to post by LordBucket

 

Very good argument.
If you think about civilization development even "Greys" were once cavemans or anything else primitive in some moment of evolution.
We can speculate weather telepathy was gained skill later on or in very early stage of Grey evolution. I think it was on the later part for various reasons. Greys have mouth which would indicate that in some part of evolution it was useful to them. Question is to what.

Why i think written language is must is because you should think about development of math and engineering.
I you were to design primitive machine for example clock or anything similiar to measure time you would need some symbols to tell you time. Remember, this primitive clock can not message to you through thoughts or images what time is it so symbols are necessary. Leading to point that written language is necessary.
Later on need for symbols might be eliminated but they are necessary to input and extract knowledge from machines. At least in very early stages of engineering.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

"Greys have mouth which would indicate that in some part of evolution it was useful to them. Question is to what."

i would guess it would be for eating..

Originally posted by Dr Slim

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
reply to post by LordBucket

 

Very good argument.
If you think about civilization development even "Greys" were once cavemans or anything else primitive in some moment of evolution.
We can speculate weather telepathy was gained skill later on or in very early stage of Grey evolution. I think it was on the later part for various reasons. Greys have mouth which would indicate that in some part of evolution it was useful to them. Question is to what.

Why i think written language is must is because you should think about development of math and engineering.
I you were to design primitive machine for example clock or anything similiar to measure time you would need some symbols to tell you time. Remember, this primitive clock can not message to you through thoughts or images what time is it so symbols are necessary. Leading to point that written language is necessary.
Later on need for symbols might be eliminated but they are necessary to input and extract knowledge from machines. At least in very early stages of engineering.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

"Greys have mouth which would indicate that in some part of evolution it was useful to them. Question is to what."

i would guess it would be for eating..

Well that would be a logical assumption, and I agree with that. However some abductees claim that they absorb nutrients through skin, which in itself is interesting fact. To not condemn too harshly anyone's believes I left matter open. As a sidenote I'd like to point out that humans too absorb for example D-vitamin through skin.
It's good when people sometimes state obvious fact, because other people have to clarify what they meant anyway. I hope people come still with new ideas. Keep up good work...
(that was not sarcasm if someone felt that way.....)



[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

Some thoughts I encountered on this site: www.xibalba.demon.co.uk... applicable to alien languages....

paraphrase:
Users of an alien language would have different ideas about what needs to be pointed out, what goes without saying, what level of hyperbole is acceptable, what is relevant, what is concise, what things are associated with other things, and what subtext is implied.



About telepathy. There's no such thing as a 'pure' thought. Even thoughts are abstractions. Even if there were, there would be no way to transmit these thoughts without encoding them somehow. A language transmitted telepathically shouldn't have any advantage over spoken language. It may even cause more problems than it solves.

reply to post by Gazrok


...and let's not forget the "drones" of the '07-09 era at ATS and elsewhere:



We also spent a lot of time discussing where and how the drone language may have been derived, such as in these examples:



and:


As most followers of this topic know, the origins and correlations regarding the 'drone writing' were inconclusive, yet, some may find the thread valuable to this topic since it explored many of the same issues regarding at least the potential of an alien writing form.

Alien Drone Writing

Drone as viral

Drone the Hoax? (warning - this thread is HUGE; over 400 pages and 8,600+ posts)

Good luck!

p.s. the ATS game "Where is the Conspiracy?" also had a few inventive alien writing styles presented. a search will reveal some of them...

Final lob: telepathy, yes - for interpersonal and perhaps limited intermachine communication, but Gazrok is likely close to the mark: SOME graphic/nomenclature convention would almost have to be implemented, even if on just a limited scale for logistic and temporal considerations (such as find the right "Off" (or "self-destruct") switch in the bathroom, escape pod, etc.

reply to post by Outrageo

I hate when I have to break illusion, but I must admit this is one of the most beautiful hoaxes out there. My first impression was that I was seeing modification of japanese Katakana with very stylish circle, not any alien language by any chance.
So I conclude this is a hoax albeit very well thought and made by highly skilled professional.
What is wrong with that language, well...
first of all if you notice all other languages have some common traits in the alphabet, this language doesn't have these.

My logo is by the way edited version of Katakana Mu-charachter.

A language transmitted telepathically shouldn't have any advantage over spoken language. It may even cause more problems than it solves.

Sure it would...it could convey the emotion, intensity, etc. beyond mere words, as well as images, sounds, smells, etc. in the person's mind along with the message...

Much more efficient, and no misinterpretation.

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
I'm interested in creating this thread, because quicklook through forum revealed no similiar thread.
Anyway, I was wondering what kind Alien written and spoken language is (if they speak). I wish that everyone posting in this thread would give interesting ideas. How aliens communicate and how they language looks like. You may also post pictures from alien language.

If language are a barrier, a computer can relay your thoughts into concept form, and send them to the target. So you can communicate in concepts only just fine.

I for example have my own theory that Alien language for example "Greys" as people commonly call them is triple-based.
By triple-based I mean that they probably use all of their three fingers to write, since their fingers seem to awfully long according do some "abductee" stories. We humans keep pen in certain way, because our anatomy dictates it. I think that for "Greys" it might be then more natural to write using all three fingers than human way of holding pen.
What comes to speaking I have no idea, but since they have mouth they propably were able or are able to speak.
Even if they use telepathy they as every civilization have to have a way to communicate from generation to generation so I think that written language is a must.

Please remember that I'm not convinced in their existence as this is more like a thought-play....

I'm a real skeptic so give here really good ideas!

[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

When I speak to ETs, its telepathically. In this realm concepts are universally understood. Any being can communicate with any being in ET circles via a computer connected to the brain that processes concepts, and can relay them into language. All it requires is the language to be known by the computer, and that is very easy to get around here. Just ask a friend ET to upload it to your computer. And even then if you dont have the languages you can have a computer relay your thoughts into concept form, and any ET will understand you. Concepts are universal.

ETs rely heavily on their computers for communication. Some learn the language(the nordics I know have learned english at least somewhat i believe).

Each ET is probably going to have their own language. So in typical ET conversations they are both speaking their native language.

About telepathy. There's no such thing as a 'pure' thought. Even thoughts are abstractions. Even if there were, there would be no way to transmit these thoughts without encoding them somehow. A language transmitted telepathically shouldn't have any advantage over spoken language. It may even cause more problems than it solves.

On the contrary. Communicating telepathically is far superior to spoken language. You get what people mean crystal clear. And concepts are pretty "pure", I'm not sure what you mean by that though. There is no deception is telepathic conversation unless a computer took over for a deciever.

Also, you dont think in language, you break your concepts down into language. Its concept first. I dont get where your abstract comment is either. I get pretty pure thoughts, and they are not abstract. lol

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Myuzik]