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Eckhart Tolle, Scam Artist?

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posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:56 AM
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MR OneQuestion you sure do seem to have alot of questions for someone with onequestion....




posted on May, 15 2010 @ 03:02 AM
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I am curious about HIM. If this isn't something that your curious about, then move on. If you don't ask these types of questions about people then you don't. I had this idea, and i explored the idea with other people who may have a different understanding. If you can't understand that, then there is nothing i can say or do.

Why would i read a philosophical book written by someone i don't think may be trustworthy?

Just an fyi i have sat down at the library and leafed through his the power of now book. honestly i can't read books like this and take anything away from them. If i could sit down and read an argument about the book, i would probably learn more. I have however watched every video available.

I know i read it on here somewhere,

The devil will tell you 1000 truths to get you to believe 1 lie.

The point of this thread, was so i could EXPLORE the idea! So obviously my stance may change, it is the evolution of thought.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by psy_smurf
 


You are right, i don't even know how i got this name lol. Should be infinitequestion.

As much as i enjoy debating with you, i will have to check in tomarrow!


The funny thing about mirrors....sometimes they show you something you don't want to see.

(this is not directed towards anyone, mybe myself, just a thought to ponder about why i post how i do)

[edit on 15-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 





The devil will tell you 1000 truths to get you to believe 1 lie.


Well that says it all. I might be wrong, but I bet your stance on him comes from a religious background- if I am wrong- all apologies. Only you will know that answer.

As for you wanting to learn more about him, I think not. You did not start the thread wanting to know background information on him or anything else for that matter-You loudly pronounced he is a con artist. You asked that people back you on your unjustified-uninformed stance. You were not in search of p info on him, well nothing positive or objective anyway. That is not wanting to learn. And for the record- no- you cannot possibly learn more about him from a thread and people's opinions who have not read his work- the same way you cannot debate physics if you don't know anything about it, and haven't studied it.

Do as you will...



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by jinx880101
 





Ok now let me make something clear. I am not arguing on weather or not what he is teaching is plausible, as i believe a lot of what he says runs in line with zen buddhism, and alan watts. What i am questioning is his authenticity. Has anyone else come into this line of thinking? Does anyone else think that he is some sort of scam artist?


I am clearly not saying, "Please back me up". i m simply asking, have you thought this? What was your conclusion? Why? I clearly state that his message may be something worth taking a look at. Certain aspects of what i have heard him say, i may disagree with, such as i have posted previously. The question of authenticity is something i think is a question a lot of people ask, about a lot of people.

Does anyone else think that he is some sort of scam artist?

I will give you credit on this point to an extent, although I am clearly not stating, "I only want people who agree with me to post". I can see how this may be easily misconstrued.

If i was only clearly looking for support, there is plenty of Eckhart bashing all over the internet. I could have easily have just read any of those blogs or whatever it was and have been satisfied. I do typically believe however that on ATS there is a more objective, or educated view on things.

Religious background has nothing to do with it. Just because a religion has made use of something, doesn't mean that something is wrong.


Add - I often discuss my thoughts, not always in true belief of those thoughts, but to better understand what idea it is i have created (no matter how crazy), or just to simply understand why it is i thought this thing that i thought.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 





I agree with you 100%. It is disgusting. I am trying to show my father this. I wish i had 5 minutes on the Oprah show with Eckhart Tolle in a 1 on 1 debate about consciousness. I just wanted to check with people here on ATS as they are not as easily deceived. I was hoping for more comment.


I drew my conclusion from the post of yours above- If I perceived it the wrong way I apologize.

Your post was appreciated and I thank you for replying gracefully.

My reason for bringing up religion- Is that in the fist couple of pages of his book 'A New Earth' he talks about how the message of Christ has been distorted through organized religions of the world such as Christianity, Catholicism and other Eastern religions. I believe these statements of his can cause Christians and others to immediately try to discredit his work without reading further. I say this because I have seen it happen.

I do not wish to argue with you on this or to be abrasive in any way- I just hope you give his work a fair chance, by reading it. The man is human after all, and he is not egoless- he clearly states this in his books numerous times. He does not claim to be prefect. I suppose the only point of debate here is whether he practices what he 'preaches'... I can tell you right off the bat- reading the book- does not enlighten one immediately. It merely causes one to notice your thought pattern and reactions towards situations in one's life. And it is extremely difficult to live that way all the time- even for him....because he is human as we are.

He is merely pointing out that which is holding us back as humanity. Humanity has faults and it is time we notice them, observe how they make us feel- and try to better ourselves and how we act towards others.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by jinx880101
 


I will concede to you on this point. I do understand this about myself, i can change stances on subjects often. That post is not clearly thought out and more then likely is not a true way for me to convey myself. I do change my thoughts often as i am trying to understand myself more on this.

I am not trying to argue with you at all. I just want us to understand each other. I understand where you are coming from completely. I do however often misinterpret, or make hasty decisions only later to recant and take another position. I am sure you understand.

I thank you for your willingness to stick this conversation out and look forward to more.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 04:25 AM
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Its the macintosh i swear, its not me!

Though, now that i have been able to come to a crossroads, i can probably sleep better now! lol

Try this again...

[edit on 15-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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Glad I came back to ATS, been away for a while


Anyway some really good constructive comments here, a lot to reply to.


_SilentAssassin_


This is why it is so important that we always hold on to our believes, because once you get rid of them you become a perfect slave.


I think keeping hold of beliefs for too long is actually a bad point in the way we have been conditioned through Culture/Society, let me explain....

How long can you hold onto belief? That's before it either becomes The Known or it simply just stay as a belief. How long are you willing to put trust in an Idea or Concept that will sculpture your life. What's the time limit? Do you just keep hold of them beliefs until you die? How much of an impact will that have on the rest of your life?

That my friend is Control....

If we are really talking about Ego here, Then holding onto a belief is the biggest attachment you can have. They stay with you and grow, take on a life of their own you start adding bits and taking bits away. Normally you create a Fictional Character or Alter Ego that has it's roots set in that initial belief. A belief that 9/10 still isn't the known, especially when you are tlaking about Religion, New Age, Spirituality.

Eckhart Contradicts himself here, he want's you to drop all attachments. Other than the attachment to his belief's, his ideas and concepts.

I believe we need turn our beliefs into the Known, or simply remove them lines from the Scrips, unless you want the play to pan out that way.

Illusionsaregrander


I believe Eckhart Tolle genuinely had a profound spiritual awakening. In that sense I do not believe his is a fraud.

I dont believe he copied his ideas from existing sources,


Look up Anthony De Mello on YouTube or Googel ... He gave the same message in the 70's & 80's... Yet in 2010 the world is still full of these attachments, Greed, Power the need to control the masses through belief systems, Religion being the biggest one, Then New Age. New Age is just like plan B, should Religion fail... Still the same old BS in my opinion. All down to one bloke we should bow down to and worship.

Good post though, some great observations. (S)

AProphet1233


I believe that enlightenment exists


It does, you had it when you were a child when you didn't seek the answers you do now. I believe the searching/needing for answers is our biggest weakness, we spend so much time in our minds we miss the beauty and mystery of life.

So in my opinion Enlightenment is a free mind, The quest for the truth is far far from that. Why not just Accept what is and enjoy it, things are so bad these days we are pushing our Religious and New Age beliefs onto our Children taking their only taste of Enlightenment away. e.g. Indigo Children.... But that's another debate entirely.

Stormdancer777


I guarantee this wont work, so don't bother, just be yourself.


Brilliant post (S) speaking from experience in both New Age and Anti-New Age.. if there is anything I have learned despite what beliefs is "Be Yourself" down walk in the footsteps of somebody else or their beliefs "Not even me"


Peace

IamNow

[edit on 15-5-2010 by IamNow]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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Human beings are competitive. It's a result of being what we are - atoms, cells, sub-systems, and all of it battling to maintain organization from instant to instant. How can we be any other way with all that aggressive and disciplined activity coming together in symbiotic competition against all else that physically exists?

These New Age people want us to dismiss all that effort that surges within every square inch of us, but maybe we should appreciate it instead? I don't know. I, for one, really appreciate all those atoms and cells and bits and pieces that work so hard to allow me existence. When I sit down in a chair, none of my atoms choose to stay with the chair, and to be honest, they probably have every good reason to - considering how I treat them from time to time.

Yeah, we're masses of intellectual consciousness, but we wouldn't exist if it weren't for all that relentless elemental effort to bring our brains into physical working order. I appreciate that these little workhorses have decided that I'm worth it. Screw these people who try to make me feel bad because my corporeal organization isn't rich or pretty or dunking basketballs from the foul line. My bits and pieces work their asses off for me, and there are trillions of them. Let everyone else worry about their own corporeal organizations, and how they're going to "transcend" them. I like mine, and we're going out for a little sun in a while.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


Amazing post (S)

That's a really good explanation, it is true everything in the universe faces resistance why fight it as you only create more.

If I could give you 100 stars I would.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by IamNow]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by IamNow
reply to post by NorEaster
 


Amazing post (S)

That's a really good explanation, it is true everything in the universe faces resistance why fight it as you only create more.

If I could give you 100 stars I would.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by IamNow]


Give your bits and pieces a smile for me.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 





I, for one, really appreciate all those atoms and cells and bits and pieces that work so hard to allow me existence.


Well put! I cannot agree more with that, i only wish i could have had said it myself. This is exactly what i have been thinking, but only not as eloquently put. Awsome post.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 



Well, I think i have been to judgemental.

Let's just say i disagree with some of his use of terms/names, but that is just a perceptual difference, not a difference in philosophy.

I will have to give him credit for what he has done positively for people who otherwise would not have had it.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by onequestion
it?

I have to agree with you on this aspect. If you reach a state of enlightenment, let's say that enlightenment is complete unity with the source and everything, at what point do you come back from realizing this, to having to teach everyone else this? Wouldn't you realize that you are everything else and that it doesn't really matter?




Lol. I like the way you think. And yes, if you DID realize oneness, you would realize that there was no real point in telling everyone "else." But there is no real harm, either, is there? After all, you are only talking to yourself. Lots of us do it.

The harm would be if you had the experience, but upon snapping out of it back into apparent individuality, you became confused and thought "you" as an individual were special somehow, (a messiah, or guru) and re-separated yourself that way. And if you then in that confused re-separated place of thinking, convinced yourself that you had to help "others."



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by Novise
 


I think Tolle IS Awakened, or Enlightened, and I have no problem with his definition.

The only problem I have is that ever since the Buddha, and perhaps even before, those who are enlightened or awakened who have chosen to become popular figures end up being twisted into something they are not. They end up being portrayed both in their own lifetimes, and especially after their deaths, as something MORE than human.

Their doubts, their anger, their confusion, etc., anything that could reveal their all too human-ness, is concealed from the public eye. This annoys me. If you are awake and private, you do not have some obligation to annouce your humanity to the world. But if you allow yourself to be held up, you, (in my opinion) are absolutely BOUND to tell the truth about who you are. And not allow yourself to be Deified in any way.

To allow the misconception that awakening makes you supernatural or otherwise above human feelings and emotions makes some of those who are on the right path afraid to continue, for fear of "losing" something they enjoy. Or it makes those who are already stirring, discount their increasing wakefulness because it isnt spectacular enough compared to the myth.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by IamNow

Look up Anthony De Mello on YouTube or Googel ... He gave the same message in the 70's & 80's... Yet in 2010 the world is still full of these attachments, Greed, Power the need to control the masses through belief systems, Religion being the biggest one, Then New Age. New Age is just like plan B, should Religion fail... Still the same old BS in my opinion. All down to one bloke we should bow down to and worship.


I think the reason most "enlightened" people say the same things, is because it is the truth. If you happen to see the truth, it should look the same, but the words you use, the cultural references you use, etc., will differ.

As I see it, one of the problems with sharing it widely and publicly is that a few that are already on the verge of understanding may snap awake upon reading it. Some already awake will be comforted they are not alone. But the vast majority of people will take what is said and try to mimic it, to follow it.

And "trying" takes you away from the experience of that truth. No matter how well intentioned the trying is.

The question for me, I guess, is "is it worth the vast numbers of people who will be mislead or lead astray for those few whom it will tip over?"

And I would have to say, "Yes." It is worth it.

But what I DONT agree with is to allow that vast multitude who are unable to be helped by what you have said to believe you are more than you are. That is how religions begin, and religion is the antithesis of spirituality.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by IamNow
 





That my friend is Control....


That's not true. You use knowledge has a defence mechanism. All your life is not "control", your confusing your term with actual learning process. Without it we cannot evolve. That's the thing you see, because if you strip yourself from your beliefs or moral standards in this case, you loose your freedom has an individual. There is nothing wrong in having an "ego" or being yourself. Has long has you treat everyone else with respect and compassion. This is very dangerous psychology so be careful. You are born original, do not die has a copy.



[edit on 16-5-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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At the end of the day folks we judge, accuse, blame, fear, hate and get angry at people around us more quickly than we do with ourselves yeah?
There now one has found the ego, however you will always keep projecting its behavior until you recognize it is really your one self that you, judge, accuse, blame, fear, hate and get angry at. So Eckhart Tolle is only you.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 07:47 PM
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Reply to Illusionsaregrander

Absolutely, and a big part of what I think some of us try to do when we remember to is dispel this myth. The Power of Now incidentally was the first place I read that "You will not change, only the way you view yourself will." You stop attaching baggage to your views about yourself.

Sometimes reading about the Buddha and others. I really view them as "larger than life." As much as it is nice to appreciate them... I think you are right, the myth that it's some superpower to be enlightened is the worst thing going right now. It's just a huge misconception, and it feeds the ego of today's society. So to go one direction or the other, it's probably better to err on the side that say's "It's not a big deal, your life will change but you will still be you." Might not be completely correct, of course I know I could be wrong, but it's plain to see that the opposite view that it is a monstrous thing and life-shattering seems worse, and it really doesn't make as much sense as the simpler view.

That said, apparently the Buddha's awakening experience lasted throughout the night. It's really hard to be sure on this. I still see two sides, and perhaps the book I am reading right now does Deify Gautama. He's of course human, so far he hasn't healed the sick or anything, but his life story is amazing and I'm not quite finished. The book I am reading is "Old Path White Clouds" by Thich Nhat Hanh. It was recommended by a fellow ATSer actually. It's a great read, I'd recommend it, but yeah.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Novise]

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Novise]



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