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Eckhart Tolle, Scam Artist?

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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Well, i will admit, i do agree with a lot of his philosophy and ideas, but only to a point. I mean, personally i do zen meditation. But as much as i meditate, i want to have feelings and emotons, i want to be able to experience my mind. I don't want to turn my subjective self completely off.




posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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Wtf... way to many post.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


hey its me again. more then one post.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


And that is exactly why I think the "fraud" many of these guru-like figures perpetrate is damaging to the very philosophy they offer us.

You dont become an emotionless, subjective self-less being. You will still be you you. You dont lose your subjective self, you gain an objective self. You still have emotions, you just arent a slave to them.

Edit to add,

And the mind will not go away. It wont be turned off.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Well put. No matter what i do, i can't shake the relationship with Oprah deal. There is something about this relationship that is scary. I don't really know how to define it properly.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


What bothered me about it was how he allowed Oprah to distort what he was saying. I would have preferred if he had been able to put his ego to the side enough to correct her, instead of kind of being servile to her.

But, the message and the messenger are separate things. And I feel he is indeed a truly gifted writer about what is a very difficult topic to address in words. And I have no doubt he really did experience what he says he did.

Its just that damn guru act they get into. Even Jesus was tormented and afraid the night before they crucified him. Being enlightened does not make you not human. It just makes you aware of your own humanity in a way most are not.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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I believe that enlightenment exists. And in my romantic opinion those who are actually enlightened would not write a book about "it" or preach it. A bad novelist is a dime a dozen, they can do that sort of work. Better than a bad novelist would be someone who has been on the road to enlightenment or seen the source, but never quite got there for one reason or another. They could handle a quasi-enlightened straddler type role between communication and actually living it.

Ok. Then you would have someone who has gone the whole way not because they wanted to but because it was their fate. Perhaps such a person would live their entire life not knowing they have achieved enlightenment and look at the experience as something else entirely. They would use this gift too elevate everything around them to this divine sort of level. I dunno, I'm just pondering.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by AProphet1233]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by AProphet1233
 


I am not attacking you here, but i have to know,

How could you reach a state of enlightenment, accidentally and not be fully aware of it?

I have to agree with you on this aspect. If you reach a state of enlightenment, let's say that enlightenment is complete unity with the source and everything, at what point do you come back from realizing this, to having to teach everyone else this? Wouldn't you realize that you are everything else and that it doesn't really matter?

The stance of being a teacher, is like saying, i know something you don't, let me teach you.

Can i ask something,

How can anyone be sure they "know" anything? At the highest stage of this enlightenment, wouldn't you realize that knowing anything, is knowing nothing?



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


I think enlightenment is a concept so beyond and above the average person to be unnatural. So much so that cases of enlightenment like Christ and Buddha are anomalies whose teachings have only propogated because of the specific culture of those times.

These days we don't need people to play the role of teacher of all humanity because it wouldn't... work out. Everything has been said and every type of knowledge can be found.

Now players of the game, instead of insisting on a world teacher, ask to be taught pragmatic lessons. So I think most enlightened people don't preach. They have ordinary lives and fulfill their societal roles in a way that is oddly exceptional and aware.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by AProphet1233]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:37 AM
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As far as experiencing enlightenment and not being aware of it... enlightenment is just a word describing a very vague experience. Unless you were born and raised in a temple you may not know how to interpret a chaos of things as enlightenment. Perhaps you've experienced this while working in a factory or driving down the highway and live in a place where society is more likely to tell you your crazy or depressed rather than special and you believe this because you know nothing else.

I don't think a person could actively pursue enlightenment, like you can't tell yourself to disregard all your conditioning which you've deemed to be lies because you read a book and now want to be enlightened. It's just something that happens and is directly related to the person fate wants you to be and not desire.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:38 AM
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I don't know what enlightenment is, I don't know anyone that is enlightened, if there was a person who was enlightened I wouldn't recognize their enlightenment.

Why are we looking for enlightenment?

Who's Idea was that?

Maybe no one is enlightened, maybe everyone is enlightened, who is the teacher and who is the student?

Why do we need a guru?

Do you have to be an enlightened being to offer something profound to the world?

Maybe you find enlightenment where you least expect to find enlightenment,

If or when you find enlightenment, a assure you, you will get over it, one who is to spiritually high minded is no earthly good.

Why are people always trying to find themselves?

Whoooooo am I?

If someone says I let go of ego, I say that statement alone proves you have not, or you wouldn't feel the need to announce it to the world.

Withdraw into yourself and look. And if you do not fined yourself beautiful yet, act as does the creator of a statue that is to be made beautiful: he cuts away here, he smoothes there, he makes this line lighter, this other purer, until a lovely face has grown his work. So do you also: cut away all that is excessive, straighten all that is crooked, bring light to all that is overcast, labor to make all one glow or beauty and never cease chiseling your statue, until there shall shine out on you from it the godlike splendor of virtue, until you see the perfect goodness surely established in the stainless shrine”
Plotinus

I guarantee this wont work, so don't bother, just be yourself.

sligh.biz...

Night



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


I don't know if it is as much always finding yourself, or who am i type of deal. I know personally i enjoy this type of conversation, i enjoy being able to know where i stand on certain issues. I find it more about the actual exploration then the end result. I agree with everything else though!

And you are right, forget leaving the earth behind, i enjoy the scenery and i don't feel like trying to find a new one because a few people have torn this one apart.

I now want to know, who originated the idea of enlightenment?

[edit on 15-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:48 AM
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He doesn't impress me in the interviews that can be found on youtube either. A New Earth didn't impress me much either. There were a few quotes I liked out of it, reaffirming perhaps, but not many new things. With that said, he did an amazing job on The Power of Now, it's just unbeatable when it comes to "Living in the moment." End of the day, that book alone is genius. No matter what, he always has that. I've looked at some things he did after it and judged him from time to time, but I always have to stop myself and remember what a profound effect his first book had on me.

Some were talking about whether or not he said he was enlightened... I'll comment on that, in The Power of Now, he DEFINES enlightenment as being able to seperate yourself from your thoughts. Instead of believing you are your thoughts. Being able to observe them perhaps. That's it. So he had a different definition for that word. He made it not such a big deal. And under that view, it seems he would have considered himself enlightened in a soft sense. In some light way, he felt he was. EDIT: Also, he said everyone is enlightened already, they have it within them but just don't realize it, or haven't realized it yet. But he knew well he didn't have the same experience as Buddha or Jesus.

A better word he may have used was Awakened to describe what he felt. But all those words can just confuse. It seems the Buddha may have felt that being awake was a bigger deal than being enlightened. Buddha means "One who is awake." So to say awakened doesn't necessarily get you off the hook either, it could be a bolder claim than enlightenment. Just depends who you ask.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Novise]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


your view on conciousness, is probably completely different to the next persons view, so if you think its disgusting that someone out there takes the time, to put a book together to try a bring an understanding through it, then i think that its disgusting that you are a little spec of humanity sitting here on a forum trying to state that your view on something is right, why dont you just let everyone be, you will be alot happier, try and climb out of your egotistical shell and see people for who they truely are and not just a worldy object, if you think you know better than this man or have a better understanding then let us know when your book is published and we will give you our opinion on your thoughts, until then no one cares if you think some is right or wrong.

Peace and understanding, not war and confussion

[edit on 15-5-2010 by psy_smurf]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by psy_smurf
 


Don't you think motivation is important? You don't sound very understanding... To me an understanding person would say, "Well mybe he may not have his heart in the right place, but hey, it is a decent message non the less".

Insults and attacks aren't understanding. If my position is perceived as wrong, mybe you could help me change my position?

If noone on this website cares about weather or not what anyone else says is right or wrong, then why are we here?

[edit on 15-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


That said, your OP didnt sound very understanding... as you acused him of being a scam artist, Have you read any of his books....

Motivation is very important, but if you have no idea what motivation is well then its a lost cause.

How would you get to know someone without getting to know them...

I am very understanding, im understanding in the respect that you seem very confused and are looking for answer, but doing it by attacking someone that has a better understanding than you is not the way.

Relax and BE

[edit on 15-5-2010 by psy_smurf]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:44 AM
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It's amazing to what extent people will twist things to try and prove their point.

For those claiming his work will turn one into a vegetable- not eating, drinking, thinking about the past or future, therefore "not thinking at all". You are missing the message by a long shot. What he is saying is- try not to dwell on the past, because when you do that, you are taking from the now- this moment. Compulsively thinking and regurgitating the past, consequently spoils your present and holds you back from growing spiritually.

Always thinking about the future, or what you want or need to do- is what is stopping you from doing just that. He explains- that when you are in this moment, when you are fully present, the creative energy that flows through all life is able to flow through you. This brings quality and meaning to what you are doing because you are paying attention to the present moment.

In his book, he gives a dialog about a person asking the same question about 'becoming an non-thinking vegetable...the example was about a sapling and why it grows into a tree, if it is not concerned about the future...

"A sapling doesn't want anything because it is at one with totality, and the totality acts through it. We could say that the totality- Life, wants the sapling to become a tree, but the sapling does not see itself as separate from life and so wants nothing for itself. It is at one with what life wants. That is why it is not worried or stressed. And if it dies, it dies with ease. It is as surrendered in death as it is in life. It senses, no matter how obscurely, it's rootedness in Being, the formless and eternal one Life." - Eckhart Tolle

Read my signature for an explanation on the future.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by psy_smurf
 


I am exploring options. What i have observed of his personality would tell me more then any book. Obviously this is something crossing more minds then my own as people have taken the time out of their lives to discuss this. Once a more properly understood conclusion is reached. I may have a better understanding.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


Read the book and then explore your options it makes things easier when you actually have a background on what you are talking about............


so basically you are judging a book by its cover, NICE....
Dude, put your pride in your pocket and Read the book, not the back cover the entire book.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by psy_smurf]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 





Don't you think motivation is important? You don't sound very understanding... To me an understanding person would say, "Well mybe he may not have his heart in the right place, but hey, it is a decent message non the less". Insults and attacks aren't understanding. If my position is perceived as wrong, mybe you could help me change my position? If noone on this website cares about weather or not what anyone else says is right or wrong, then why are we here?


It seems to me you have changed your stance since starting this thread- what you have written about sounds like a response from a completely different person from your OP. It sounds in line with what Mr Tolles teachings.




I am exploring options. What i have observed of his personality would tell me more then any book. Obviously this is something crossing more minds then my own as people have taken the time out of their lives to discuss this. Once a more properly understood conclusion is reached. I may have a better understanding.


Just admit it- You haven't read the books- you haven't even read one. Not even a page....and you sit there judging and bringing him down... He teaches peace, and if you want to twist that- then so be it. Nothing can change it. It is what it is no matter how much you try to distort it on this thread.



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