“Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”

reply to post by ponyboyats


I'm so sorry that happened to you or any legal immigrant. It shouldn't cost anything to come here legally, beyond your personal effort. You sure as hell shouldn't need a lawyer! There should be citizen advisors or mentors or something who volunteer- or even if it were a paid position, to assist people through the process. It is an investment in the immigrant's future & our own, as a country.

reply to post by jam321


Actually I vote aganst All incumbants. I agree Government has Created this problem. We the People must solve it.

Vote out all incumbants. No Re-elections! Fine all Employers that Hire Illegals.

Secure the Border and Deport them back to whatever country they are from.

Mexico has been known to shoot Guatamalins crossing their southern border. They don't have an illegal Immigraton problem.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


haha. im sorry are you serious? if you have no money you are NOT coming to the US of A. 10's of stacks on a lawyer and you might become a pernanent resident within a few years of living on a work visa. try it yourself and you get DENIED, like my dad. he tried himself w/o lawyer it was impossible. the more money you got, the faster the access. you can become a perm resident within about a year if you got the right kinda cheese. (ie 100s of K of $$)

p.s. permanent resident=green card. then u wait 5 years, pay more stacks to a lawyer and get citizenship. i would not try to apply for citizenship w/o lawyer, thats just paperwork suicide w/ no success.

reply to post by Johnze


How exactly is $1,200 showing coc aine use? Joe Legal makes $25/hr. That is no stretch for a $1,200 a month house? Where do you live that $1,200 is unheard of? Here in Cali you can find a house for that much unless it's in the projects.

I really wish there were a way for me to filter out all the posts on this site with the word racist. I swear it's impossible for those of us that aren't ignorant to carry on an educated conversation about illegal immigration here. The fact is, there are laws. Laws that myself, and all other American citizens must abide by. Why is it that others, who break our laws merely by their presence, deserve exemption from these laws?

The laws we have in place are there for a reason. We make all immigrants go through the same screening process for a reason. It doesn't matter if they're Mexican, African, Australian, or, god forbid, Canadian (joke.) In our country's infancy, Jack The Ripper came and left America 4 times, that we know of. That was before Ellis Island, before our laws were in place. Would you welcome Jack The Ripper just because his own country is messed up?

Illegal aliens, no matter their race or credence are just that. Illegal. They strain our country's increasingly limited finances, they bring undocumented crime. Obviously this may not be the case for many, or even most.

great post, but that happens with every person who works under the table or does not pay the total taxes he/she is supposed to, illegal or not.

Its also the Government of Mexico that are making the illegals come here. Mexico needs to be fixed, just as we do. If mexico was a nice place they wouldnt be coming.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by ker2010]

reply to post by SWCCFAN


what i've seen in the illegal immigrant debate on ats is it has evolved, and thats because we have reasonable ppl on ats, like yourself and others. when ats first started discussing this issue this year, it was all heated debates, and namecalling. divide and conquer type stuff. but now we're finally figuring it all out and concentrating our anger on the common enemy. im glad we can recognize the root of this problem through civil discussion, i seriously expected a bunch of bitching on this thread. so basically, we're divided over the issue but all the division stems from the corrupt govt laws that enforce all of this and set it all into place. the illegals are partly to blame, but like i said from mother w/ baby scenario, alot of them are just trying to survive, although im sure some are here to ttake advantage of the system. none of this would be like that if the laws were enforced and illegal hiring cracked down on.

I only read the first page so far but I have to chime in here.
I guess I need to end my friendship with one of my dearest friends, who happens to be Latino because, I agree with the O.P. so that must make me a racist. It doesn't matter that she, a legal from Mexico a few generations back also agrees. (She reads ATS but won't make an account because of the cookies)

How exactly is $1,200 showing coc aine use? Joe Legal makes $25/hr. That is no stretch for a $1,200 a month house? Where do you live that $1,200 is unheard of? Here in Cali you can find a house for that much unless it's in the projects.

Not sure if I understand that statement. There is no way you can find a house for that little, even in the projects in Cali. Maybe a rundown crummy apartment but not a house.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by calstorm]

Don't know why I'm even posting to this topic because everybody on here is frickin nuts. But what the hey, I'll throw my cashews into the bowl too.

If a person walks into a bar and orders a beer, the bartender may ask for ID to prove age. If that person is underage, or can't prove one way or the other, he gets thrown out of the bar.

If a person walks into a bar and orders a beer, the bartender may serve him without asking for ID. If that person turns out to be underage, regardless of whether or not the bartender suspected him of being underage, the bartender can be arrested if caught.

Now on the other hand, if a person walks into a bar and orders a beer, the bartender asks for ID, the person provides valid ID proving he is old enough to drink, he gets served his frosty beer and enjoys it in the dim light of the cozy establishment.

Three situations, all completely different, all perfectly understandable, all perfectly enforceable. Guess I don't understand why we have all this nonsense being fought over. If this was a group of minors trying to fight bartenders from "profiling" them because they look young, it would be the biggest laugh.

If you are here legally, show your ID to the nice officer, and go have a beer. If not, well the bouncer at the door will try and not let the door hit your ass on the way out.

reply to post by SWCCFAN

We the People must solve it.

We the people can't solve it when we are divided on the solution. We the people tend to keep reelecting the same people who have oked this in the first place. No matter how much you say vote them out, it won't happen.

Secure the Border and Deport them back to whatever country they are from.

Do you really think we have the resources to secure two borders and all the waterways? Or are you one that only views the Mexican border as the solve all?

50% of illegals enter legally and overstay their visas.

Mexico has been known to shoot Guatamalins crossing their southern border. They don't have an illegal Immigraton problem.

Do you really think we should lower our standards to that of Mexico? Do you believe that we should treat fellow human beings in an in humane way?

Is this truly the only way to solve the US immigration problem?

[edit on 13-5-2010 by jam321]

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by SWCCFAN
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Can you dis-prove the Claims? Its hard to prove exactly how much Illegals drain the system. They are Un-Documented after all.

Sorry...it doesn't work like that.

You make the claim YOU back it up with proof.


You don't just make a random claim and tell others to disprove it.



Put up or shut up....or look like a moron who will believe anything a chain email tells them without researching it before running out and posting it on a website.

The choice is yours.

Why? Anyone on the Liberal side of the fence gets to spout off everything including calling everyone a "Racist"!

We are a country of Laws.
What part of the label "Illegal" don't you understand.

Well, most your type on here don't get why Obama and the gang are bad for this country either. So, I guess it's a waste of time trying to explain anything or show proof of anything.

only the illegals work under the table in this country?? I don't think so.

reply to post by maxweljames


true true, but imagine this scenario.

any minor can come into the bar called usa if they pay a certain fee. then they can drink and puke all they want and noone will ask for their id or arrest the bartender. do you think the minors will take advantage of that situation or stay away from that bar?

reply to post by SWCCFAN


I never said I support illegal immigration, however I am pointing out that illegal immigration wouldn't exist if the conditions and opportunity's for them didn't exist as well.

There must be a crackdown on all employers who employ illegals. They are at the true heart of this epidemic. They rob the country of income taxes that would usually be paid, as well as rob illegals in their treatment and wages.

reply to post by Dephyle

Illegal aliens, no matter their race or credence are just that. Illegal. They strain our country's increasingly limited finances, they bring undocumented crime. Obviously this may not be the case for many, or even most.

Funny thing is that some people waited for our government to accumulate a 13 TRILLION debt before they started worrying about our limited finances. :shk:

[edit on 13-5-2010 by jam321]

let's say both Joe Legal and Jose Illegal work "under the table"...make the math again.

you'll see that there's not much difference.

Originally posted by maxweljames
Don't know why I'm even posting to this topic because everybody on here is frickin nuts. But what the hey, I'll throw my cashews into the bowl too.

If a person walks into a bar and orders a beer, the bartender may ask for ID to prove age. If that person is underage, or can't prove one way or the other, he gets thrown out of the bar.

If a person walks into a bar and orders a beer, the bartender may serve him without asking for ID. If that person turns out to be underage, regardless of whether or not the bartender suspected him of being underage, the bartender can be arrested if caught.

Now on the other hand, if a person walks into a bar and orders a beer, the bartender asks for ID, the person provides valid ID proving he is old enough to drink, he gets served his frosty beer and enjoys it in the dim light of the cozy establishment.

Three situations, all completely different, all perfectly understandable, all perfectly enforceable. Guess I don't understand why we have all this nonsense being fought over. If this was a group of minors trying to fight bartenders from "profiling" them because they look young, it would be the biggest laugh.

If you are here legally, show your ID to the nice officer, and go have a beer. If not, well the bouncer at the door will try and not let the door hit your ass on the way out.

great analogy

reply to post by metalpr

let's say both Joe Legal and Jose Illegal work "under the table"...make the math again.

Come on, you know Americans are law abiding.



Surely, we wouldn't try to cheat Uncle Sam.

reply to post by ponyboyats


100s of thousands of dollars?

Uhm. Try $675. $595 + $80 (for fingerprinting and other biometric costs)

Unless you're hiring Johnny Cochrain's ghost to get you into America, it isn't going to cost that much.

I would like to ask a question regarding the OP, I ask as a Canadian trying to understand your messed up system, not as a troll for either side of this unwinnable debate (they really have your whole country by the infighting bawlz on this one):

How do people get medical treatment if they have no insurance? I thought the big healthcare problem was that so many people didn't have coverage. I was under the impression that if you went to the hospital without coverage they told you "sorry, we can't help you."

In Canada all I have to do is give my social insurance number and the hospital will treat me. This is because we have universal health care, and thus in theory we all pay for it. If an illegal immigrant tried to go to a doctor they would probably treat them without ID for ethical reasons, but they'd also start investigating.

Same thing with food stamps and stuff. Heck, I couldn't even get welfare (similar I think) if I was broke here without going through endless red tape.

Your calculations involve several places where the illegal persons can get government services, but why don't they need to show ID for these? Or are they using fake ID? Surely your ever watchful government has a database.

I'm asking honest questions here, so I'd appreciate it if anyone could answer without too much rhetoric.

Cheers