“Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by Omniimpotent
And you still can't justify the rhetoric in the video, you can't have it both ways, I'm a bigot with no leg to stand on, yet there is a video proving my point.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Why are you trying to bait me into stating I excuse the video? I never claimed I did. So there is no reason to justify it.

It is, as I said. As inexcusable as someone citing a photoshopped picture to support their claim. ie, you

A may or not have been photo manipulation is the same as a blatant call for sedition and revolution. I guess jaywalking and murder are the same, too
My point was there is a pervasive radical element here and more crossing daily. Glad to see you not refuting that.

Originally posted by Omniimpotent
Apparently this point has gotten lost in the back patting atta boy feel good frenzy here.

There is a radical element crossing the boarder, just ask Robert Krentz.

The US/Mexican border is a murderous cesspool, corruption and lawlessness the norm.
With the sense of entitlement demonstrated in the video I posted, you guys know the one, the one you have chosen to ignore, without border control, where does this end?

Propose your theories to the legal residents of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, S California as to why their crime rate is skyrocketing.I'm sure they'll feel relieved.

Originally posted by mryanbrown

If they were BORN HERE, they are not CROSSING the boarder... Just ask Dictionary.com

While you're Googling definitions.....

Jus Sanguinis (Right of Blood) The first way that a person can obtain American citizenship is jus sanguinis, or right of blood. This method of gaining American citizenship is an automatic method that bases a person’s right to American citizenship on their parents’ citizenship. A child is given American citizenship automatically if at least one of their parents is a legal U.S. citizen at the time of their birth. This is true even if the child is born outside of the U.S. or its territories. Jus Soli (Right of Birthplace) The second way that a person can obtain American citizenship is jus soli, or right of birthplace. This is another automatic citizenship method, however, this method is based on where the child is born. If a child is born in the United States they are automatically granted American citizenship regardless of the citizenship of his or her parents. Citizenship is granted to the child even if their mother has entered the United States illegally. The only restriction to gaining American citizenship through this method is placed on children born in the United States to parents who are foreign diplomats at the time of their child’s birth. Naturalization For all other situations, naturalization is the most common way that a foreign-born person can try to gain American citizenship. To qualify for naturalization you must meet a number of prerequisites. The first is an age restriction. In order to apply for naturalization you must be at least 18 years of age.







My theory as to why?

1. Cannabis is illegal, and Americans like it. Can only be obtained through illegal cartels.

And where are those cartels? And by what means do they deliver to the USA?

2. Police are refusing to do their job and go after actual criminals.

No actually I think they are going to continue to do their jobs and that of the federal government, as well

As an Arizonan. I feel relieved.

I'm sure Robert Krentz's family is thrilled at your comfort.

You know, the government telling businesses who they can hire and who they can't hire sounds an awful lot like government intervention in the free markets... you secret socialist, you!

On a serious note, here is a potential solution: Legalization of drugs. Taxation - revenue; manufacturing - American jobs; no more drug cartels in the South - Mexico improves - less illegal immigration; Heroin production in the Golden Triangle declines - funding for Taliban and other terrorist organizations worldwide will also decline. In the end, we'd have a lot more money than if we indulge in some draconian and expensive policy of rounding up and deporting illegals and putting many, many, many businesses out of work through massive fines.

After all, I don't remember the founding fathers getting together banning drugs, do you

Originally posted by Someone336
You know, the government telling businesses who they can hire and who they can't hire sounds an awful lot like government intervention in the free markets... you secret socialist, you!

On a serious note, here is a potential solution: Legalization of drugs. Taxation - revenue; manufacturing - American jobs; no more drug cartels in the South - Mexico improves - less illegal immigration; Heroin production in the Golden Triangle declines - funding for Taliban and other terrorist organizations worldwide will also decline. In the end, we'd have a lot more money than if we indulge in some draconian and expensive policy of rounding up and deporting illegals and putting many, many, many businesses out of work through massive fines.

After all, I don't remember the founding fathers getting together banning drugs, do you

Here, here good sir, I wouldn't vote nay.

"Why don't those damn illegals respect the law?!"

I'll bet the million dead Iraqis wished gw bush respected international laws / borders, along with a grip of occupied Afghanis.. and the millions of Iranians who suffered under the rule of a fascist despot propped up by the USA after the illegal over throw of their democratically elected president (operation ajax).. lets not forget those tortured in violation of the law, and the innocent people assassinated by US drones extra judiciously, out-side the law.

The US elite spew death war/occupation/CIA crap all over the planet defiling the "rule of law", and the American people reward the lawless despicable scum responsible by re-electing them!!.. nobody who voted GOP or DNC can get upset about foreigners ignoring US laws.. without being a big fat hypocrite..

You cannot support a (GOP/DNC= DC mafia)govt that ignores other nations laws/borders, then cry foul when US law get ignored in return.. what goes around, comes around...

Don't like how illegals ignore laws that get in their way?, thank your dear party leaders in govt for setting the perfect example.. be sure to re-elect them now, ya'hear!.. lol.. that'll change things.. lmao

Originally posted by Omniimpotent
I'm sure Robert Krentz's family is thrilled at your comfort.

Seeing as he was killed by a suspected drug smuggler, and not a simple "illegal". I'm sure his situation wouldn't have even occurred if we didn't have asinine drug regulation laws giving incentives to illegals to carry drugs and with those drugs weapons to protect them...

So yeah, he would be alive and very thrilled.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN

You have two families: “Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”.
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes
$25.00 per hour with taxes deducted (Edit: Before Taxes).

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and
gets paid $15.00 cash “under the table”.

Ready? Now pay attention…

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00
per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0
per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his
family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year.. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and
welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $9,631 .00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now
has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, “We don’t need no stinkin’ insurance!” and still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
and what he sends out of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal’s and Jose Illegal’s children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children’s lunches while Jose Illegal’s children get
a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal’s children have an after school
ESL program. Joe Legal’s children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens…

You are part of the problem!

Credit goes to Kj for the breakdown.

When Will Other States Pass Legeslation like AZ?

They are here to take over our towns. We must stop this Illegal Invasion. ENFORCE THE LAW FEDS!

[edit on 13-5-2010 by SWCCFAN]

Sure but I have ALWAYS gotten it, and it is NOT Jose's fault at all.

ONE HUNDRED percent of the problem is THOSE who EMPLOY illegals, period. No jobs, no Jose Illegal.

No matter how many of these seemingly copied from an inbox chain emails people want to post it will never change what is happening, all it does is rile up the IGNORANT MASSES into raging against another victim of the SYSTEM that is the TRUE criminal.

But hey, you enjoy your stars and flags for the hot topic of the day. Par for the course on this topic.

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by Omniimpotent
I'm sure Robert Krentz's family is thrilled at your comfort.

Seeing as he was killed by a suspected drug smuggler, and not a simple "illegal". I'm sure his situation wouldn't have even occurred if we didn't have asinine drug regulation laws giving incentives to illegals to carry drugs and with those drugs weapons to protect them...

So yeah, he would be alive and very thrilled.

Let's blame the laws and not the lawbreakers.


If that is the best you have to offer, you'll love the Federal government.

reply to post by Omniimpotent


Yeah I'm blaming that law that everyone and their mother can recognize has CREATED and PERPETUATES this cycle.

Or we can do like you, and associate every illegal (illegals only exist due to laws... so aren't you blaming the law of sorts by blaming them since the law made them illegal?) who commits a crime as a person who is simply here illegally.

All you want to do is continually change topics, and arguments to half-truths using psuedo-logic to prove your point.

So yeah, let's blame the unlawful laws which create the scenarios. It beats using ignorance to justify your position.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by mryanbrown]
EDIT: Your logic... A murder who is illegal is an illegal who murdered. An illegal is not simply a murderer. But keep using that logic.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by mryanbrown]

Originally posted by Omniimpotent



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/e357cee7c952b272.jpg[/atsimg]



Wake up.

Wake up yourself. Did you personally take that picture? How about some proof that is not inflammatory photoshopping?

urbanlegends.about.com...

urbanlegends.about.com...

"Despite the widespread claim that it was taken in Phoenix, Arizona, visual landmarks indicate the photo was snapped in Los Angeles, where a large pro-immigrant demonstration did take place on May 1, 2010.

So far no one has been able to authenticate the image, which many suspect was Photoshopped to alter the wording of the sign. Any information on its provenance, particularly with regard to locating an original, unretouched version of the image, would be greatly appreciated. "

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Wake up yourself. Did you personally take that picture? How about some proof that is not inflammatory photoshopping?

urbanlegends.about.com...

urbanlegends.about.com...

"Despite the widespread claim that it was taken in Phoenix, Arizona, visual landmarks indicate the photo was snapped in Los Angeles, where a large pro-immigrant demonstration did take place on May 1, 2010.

So far no one has been able to authenticate the image, which many suspect was Photoshopped to alter the wording of the sign. Any information on its provenance, particularly with regard to locating an original, unretouched version of the image, would be greatly appreciated. "

People love to instantaneously jump on controversial items and create a false-assumption that it is factual if it adds to their opinion. People love letting things that increase their ego pretend to be factual.

Regardless of the fact that they were not there, they were not present. They did not hear. In this day of age especially, it is far more easier to digitally create any evidence you wish.

People need to stay true to who they are, the things that take place directly in their life. And develop opinions from there, based on the "golden rule". Everything else falls into place.

Stop giving any effort to federalist agendas which do not directly relate to you. Find something in your daily life that directly effects and bothers you. Then ask yourself, why does this situation exist?

Almost all situations can be traced back to administrative statutes, which are unconstitutional yet upheld by a corrupt and treasonous Supreme Court. Our Constitutional law has been subverted since day one by greedy individuals.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in an American flag." - Unknown

[edit on 14-5-2010 by mryanbrown]

You guys who say its the governments fault are correct they are to blame, the
companys who hire illegals are to blame as well. But the illegals arent innocent either but this isnt my point.

Now ill ask you this, do you want this fixed or do you want it to stay the same and let illegals keep coming?

See i get a vibe off some of you who say its the governments fault even though your right i get the vibe you are pro illegal regardless of whose fault it is. I know its hard to get a straight answer from some of you. So heres a question i pose to you:

Would you support strict fines on companys who hire illegal immigrants? Would you support a enforced law by the government that states when a illegal is found they are deported back?

[edit on 14-5-2010 by ker2010]

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by Omniimpotent

 

Yeah I'm blaming that law that everyone and their mother can recognize has CREATED and PERPETUATES this cycle.

Or we can do like you, and associate every illegal (illegals only exist due to laws... so aren't you blaming the law of sorts by blaming them since the law made them illegal?) who commits a crime as a person who is simply here illegally.

All you want to do is continually change topics, and arguments to half-truths using psuedo-logic to prove your point.

So yeah, let's blame the unlawful laws which create the scenarios. It beats using ignorance to justify your position.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by mryanbrown]
EDIT: Your logic... A murder who is illegal is an illegal who murdered. An illegal is not simply a murderer. But keep using that logic.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by mryanbrown]

So just what do you propose? O
pen the borders and let the masses in?

The system is broken, how would YOU fix it?

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Omniimpotent]

Originally posted by ker2010
You guys who say its the governments fault are correct they are to blame, the
companys who hire illegals are to blame as well. But the illegals arent innocent either but this isnt my point.

Now ill ask you this, do you want this fixed or do you want it to stay the same and let illegals keep coming?

See i get a vibe off some of you who say its the governments fault even though your right i get the vibe you are pro illegal regardless of whose fault it is. I know its hard to get a straight answer from some of you. So heres a question i pose to you:

Would you support strict fines on companys who hire illegal immigrants? Would you support a enforced law by the government that states when a illegal is found they are deported back?

[edit on 14-5-2010 by ker2010]

Dude... Dude... Dude.

Let's deal with the obvious issue here first. WHAT GOOD DOES FINING COMPANIES DO!? They raise rates to offset costs to maintain profit margins. The costs are pushed onto consumers, creating a hidden tax on the people...

Why don't they GO TO JAIL? You want a fine? That SUPPORTS the system, and keeps it in play. It allows incentives to off-set the costs of the fine and continue following a business model that is unethical.

Disregard legal, and lawful. It's inhumane and unethical.

What we're trying to explain to you is simple. If the government ran according to the constitution and not this overdrawn federalist agenda subverting true lawful practice...

The scenarios with which you have a problem wouldn't exist.

There would be no welfare programs for ANYONE for illegals to take advantage of.

Do you think people would honestly give a damn if an alien took their job, if they were able to just OWN LAND and grow crops for themselves, build their own house. Use the land to pursuit happiness? That kind of constitutional stuff...

Because if I could. I would NEVER work in this system. I would be a true capitalist, pooling resources with friends and developing my own stuff for profit.

I try so hard to explain to you that ILLEGAL aliens is a relatively new term, that only exists thanks to unlawful legislation not in accordance with the constitution.

So whether you are for or against illegal immigration, you are still for an unlawful, unconstitutional system which perpetuates the necessity for illegals.

Illegals wouldn't be a problem if like I said, people who hire illegals WENT TO JAIL...

But if we bother to do that... Legalize drugs... Then there is more profit and a more productive economy, no more drug violence...

They just spent 800 billion dollars on banks... Do you know what that could have done to all local economics nation-wide...

Free power, free water, an abundance of food and clean land.

Almost every issue you have with illegals can be blamed on the government with little effort.

The violence? Stop using it as an excuse. Violence will always occur, especially in a system as ours where greed is the primary motivational factor. Doesn't matter if you're legal or not. If you want to kill someone, nothing can stop you.

So take away the incentive that creates situations in which violence exists...

[edit on 14-5-2010 by mryanbrown]

reply to post by ker2010

Would you support strict fines on companys who hire illegal immigrants? Would you support a enforced law by the government that states when a illegal is found they are deported back?

There are already fines, but seldom enforced. More than that, a fine alone will not solve the problem. I think the first thing is to make a counterfeit proof SSN with a picture. With so much modern technology, I find it hard to believe why this hasn't already been done.

If you solve the above, the latter would take care of itself. Illegals would leave because there would be no jobs. This would save the cost of having to find them, pick them up, run them to an administrative process and finally deport them.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ker2010

 

Would you support strict fines on companys who hire illegal immigrants? Would you support a enforced law by the government that states when a illegal is found they are deported back?

There are already fines, but seldom enforced. More than that, a fine alone will not solve the problem. I think the first thing is to make a counterfeit proof SSN with a picture. With so much modern technology, I find it hard to believe why this hasn't already been done.

If you solve the above, the latter would take care of itself. Illegals would leave because there would be no jobs. This would save the cost of having to find them, pick them up, run them to an administrative process and finally deport them.

See like this. Your solution is to develop a more strict SSN that would require more personably identifiable information. Sacrificing your rights to be free in your person for the sake of security...

Not only that, but the SSN is OPTIONAL so you're really pushing to further the accepted belief that the SS system is not only lawful (which it isn't, so tired of socialism) but that one is required to have a SSN when they are in fact not.

And do you really think people hire illegals with SSN? That solution if enacted would barely curb the underlining problem.

And so goes the debate back and forth and back again. Over and over with two sides, one for, one against. It is the fault of government, corporate greed and personal responsibility. Though some may have common sense solutions, nothing changes. Without change, this problem will only get worse. There have been protests for and against illegal immigration, there have been letters and phone calls to representatives on both sides of the debate. And so we go around and around in circles getting nowhere.

Some of the things i saw when i was a vol firefighter/EMT in Calif.

In one case a 12 year old illegal ran from the cops.
in running he fell and broke his arm.
When the cops tried to question the kid he told then "no speak English"
he got taken to the hospital his arm set and released to his mother.
the taxpayers paid for it.

A month later the kids father got in a fight and the cops and ambulance came.
The father did not speak English and the cop did not speak spanish.
guess who stood there and translated for the cop.
The kid was still wearing the cast where his arm was broken and he spoke very good English.
I pointed this out to the cop and after we took the father to the hospital the cop had a very long talk with the kid about lying to the cops and how all the department would now know not to fall for the "no speak English" act again.

Another thing we had problems with was the kids of the illegals would enter yards and steal anything no locked up.
the kids would take this stolen property home and on weekends the father would take all the stolen property to a swap meet in a neighboring town and sell it.
This way if the kids were caught stealing the cops would do little to the kids but a slap on the wrist.
And the cops never went and checked the swap meets for stolen property so they seldom caught the father selling stolen property unless the owner saw it and called the cops.

about 10% of the illegals come to the US to commit crimes.
so will work to make money while they are here but they also do crime for extra money.
farm and ranch crime is a big problem in the central valley of Calif.
much of these crimes are done by the same farm worker the farmer hire during the day and at night these illegal come back and steal anything that is not tied down
www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by SWCCFAN


Well, let's see. "Joe Legal" Makes $50K a year for his cushy manufacturing assembly job. "John Legal" Just found out next week "Wu Lee" will be taking his job in China for $7K a year. Now "John Legal" makes $0K so he can't even pay "Juan Illegal" $12/hr to cut his grass and he has to cut it himself. So to fix the problem, the Chinese government lends the $7K to the US government so "Joe Legal" can get unemployment benefits for a 7% return. Now "Joe Legal" has less than zero and owes the Chinese his share of that 7%. So who should be complaining about here, the Chinese or the poor "Jose Illegal" immigrant who will spend half of that $32K in the US and the other half sent to his country so they can purchase imported American products I think you owe to be complaining about the Chinese and be happy with the $32K. After all that is better than $0.



[edit on 14-5-2010 by poorker]

[edit on 14-5-2010 by poorker]

[edit on 14-5-2010 by poorker]

Originally posted by Night Star
And so we go around and around in circles getting nowhere.

So, what is your ultimate solution? That everyone just agree with you? This issue has always been divisive. It always will be divisive.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by antonia]

reply to post by mryanbrown

See like this. Your solution is to develop a more strict SSN that would require more personably identifiable information. Sacrificing your rights to be free in your person for the sake of security...

I have merely offered a solution. My right to be free will always be limited. If not by government than by somebody else. I learned a long time ago that we are not as free as we desire to believe.

Not only that, but the SSN is OPTIONAL so you're really pushing to further the accepted belief that the SS system is not only lawful (which it isn't, so tired of socialism) but that one is required to have a SSN when they are in fact not.

Have you ever been to a job and refused to give your SSN? Did you get the job?

At one time I read it was optional as well but I have not researched it to see if it is still that way.

And do you really think people hire illegals with SSN?

Most businesses do or they hire them as independent contractors.

That solution if enacted would barely curb the underlining problem.

Maybe it won't. But IMO it is a necessary option to start finding a solution to this problem. I rather have this issued resolved than to give people a reason to continue bashing illegals.

Thank you for your comments.