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“Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”

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posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by RRokkyy
 


Problem is that government won't deal with the issue. The issue isn't just dealing with the illegals, it is a whole boat load of issues from the war on drugs, visas, border security to helping Mexico and South America prosper.



Government?
Its a corporation.




posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Actually border security would. Drugs would most likely increase in local production with foreign influence dwindling. I'm not saying Americans would quit drugs but the influx of these foreign drugs creates a lot of crime and adds to the drug problem as it is. Seriously it isn't stupid cause I say, it just is a stupid excuse.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by iamcamouflage
 


I haven't heard anyone say that employers should not be prohibited from hiring illegals, or that they should not be prosecuted for doing so. Even if employment were eliminated 100%, the public assistance will remain and so will the sense of entitlement. (which may be the cause behind the increase) Illegal aliens who cannot find a job- or don't really even feel they need to, are where the public assistance is going. If that is changed, they will just resort to crime.
The only thing that will solve the problem is preventing them from coming to the US and deporting the ones who are here.
To say that Mexico won't take them back or that it would be some kind of human rights violation to send them back just means that the US is being held hostage. Tantamount to saying if you don't let me do what I want, I will die by whatever means. It is 1 thing if they are actually under threat by no fault of their own. It is another if it is just something they want. How would Mexico or any other country handle an illegal entrant into their country?
If we cannot send them back, then they should go to prison and be given a marginal existence- the absolute minimum. After a while, if they are willing to find their way back as they found their way in, (illegally) they should be given an opportunity to do that. It should be either go back or spend the time that you are here, in jail. Some countries would execute them. They broke the law- some, repeatedly with malice & forethought.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


jam321 PLEASE READ THIS

I refuse to believe you are serious!
Your cannot win in a legitimate debate about the virtues of immigrants from a 3rd world nation to the United States of America...

Your pathetic arguments amount to incoherent nit picking and do not hold water!

Please stop now and allow legitimate discussion continue!



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 


Yes, I have heard many times it is a corporation. It still boils down to the fact that corporations(employers) and government are the main culprits when it comes to illegal immigration.

We could get rid of ten millions illegals today and tomorrow you would still have the same laws that benefit illegal immigrants. Likewise, you would have the next wave of illegals making their way to the US.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
...and there not here to "take over our towns."


Tell that to Ron Gochez. www.youtube.com...


Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
...blame big bushiness in the U.S.A for moving to Mexico so they don't have to pay their employees minimum wage!


Newsflash! Many of those US businesses moved out of Mexico and sent the work to China, Viet Nam and Thailand. Mexico started to lose it's competitiveness almost a decade ago. Large companies like Eaton and even smaller ones like TripLite left behind deteriorating factories that litter the landscape.

You can't set up shop in Mexico without hiring union workers and constantly paying off local authorities. And the demands the unions place on employers make the AFL-CIO look like cheap labor.

Let's not forget about the not-so-free trade mess called NAFTA. There's nothing free about it. US businesses with plants south of the border pay huge fees to transport goods back and forth across the border while foreign businesses that are not US based pay next to nothing.

In the business that I have been a part of for the lat 30 years, I know all of this first hand.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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I do not blame the Mexicans for anything besides their recent violence. The Mexican community is very proud, and are not weak. The problem isn't the gringos losing their jobs to the Mexicans. The problem is the United States not creating enough jobs! We need to start by admitting to knowing about extraterrestrial life for the past 60 years and create new jobs surrounding the cool new technology. The problem lies in the gab between greed's teeth. People wouldn't care about coming to the United States if they had the same advantages as we do in their own country. Follow the money, instead of prospering, we are being held back by greedy sons of bitches who could careless about making this world a better place.




posted on May, 13 2010 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by Niccawhois
 




Debate... you call your little posts a debate...



Get a life and find out what a debate is.

Bashing immigrants is not a debate.

I'll give you a chance for a debate.

How can you get Congress to solve the illegal immigration issue?

What actions have you taken to get Congresses attention on this matter?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by otihconip
OK

First: My name happens to be Jose, so while I understand your motive I find your juxtaposition offensive from the very beginning.

I might as well be Joe legal since the past 2 years have not been easy on my life financially, same as millions of others. And I take it you must be in the same bracket considering the tone of your writing.

I will spare you my story, but I can certainly tell you that those "illegals" for the most part deserve every ounce they get because they have passed their own struggles to get where they are. Frankly I am surprised that people still want to come here considering the hardships that one has to go through to make some money here lately.

The truth is that we have become complacent in the type of work we americans like to actually do for the low pay that is offered. I would dare SWCCFAN to try being in an illegal's shoe for a day and see then if they have it as easy as it was implied in this post.

The problem I have with your post is that your anger is misplaced. Rather than taking it out on the ones that seem to be easy target in this case, think about what you would do if you were the owner of a company that really cares more about profits than giving the position to an american versus an illegal. Or even better yet, think about the companies that have closed shop here only to move them south or overseas to simply improve their bottom line.

Rather than resorting to racism, I suggest people who are angry about immigrants coming to this country start being nicer to those who will soon hold a majority of the population. You don't own this place, you never did. How do you think the natives felt when your ancestors started coming here taking things that did not belong to them and simply claimed as their property?

While I have been checking this site quite frequently since I found it because of the interesting post I see here. I must admit that it is quite disappointing to see more and more posts lately that seem to have a slightly racist undertone. Whatever, "yay freedom of speech," but I still believe that the anger I see here is misplaced.

I feel your pain, but I disagree with your reasoning.



As you can see the people for illegal immigration really have no arguement.

They are like OJ simpson everyone knew he was guilty , but he played the race card cause thats all he really had to save his ass.

You illegal immigrant supporters are on the losing end when it comes to public opinion. Americans have spoken and if a national poll was taken id bet you 70% or more would want to secure the border and make our government enforce the immigration law.

A poll was taken about the arizona law and a majority of americans agreed with the law.

So play your racism card its stupid and has nothing to do with the illegal immigration issue.

The word has been used so much in circumstances not reguarding race it has lost its shine and means jack # anymore.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by kennylee
...No I'm not racist so dont even play that bull**it RACE CARD with me! I'm an AMERICAN that is tired of all the crap!!!


Anyone who does play the race card is ignorant of the fact that all the "freebies" mentioned in this thread are also going to illegal immigrants of Poland, Russia, England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Africa and other countries.

I'm sure that the people who pull the race card have some common ancestry with those folks as well.

And let's not forget Obama's aunt, a Kenyan national who has been in this country illegally for many years... getting the same freebies as the folks who crawl over our southern border every day.

The term "illegal immigrant" has less to do with race than it does with law. It's simply illegal and an unjustified strain on this country's resources, regardless of their origin.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by iamcamouflage
 


I agree, it is to do with these business owners, many who are u.s citizens as well, who are the one's employing cheap labour including those of who are illegal.

It is not the fault of those wanting to work, it is the fault of the greedy corporates finding ways of making a quick buck in employing these people at low wages.

No different than those that take their businesses to other countries for this cheaper labour, if a person needs work, they are willing to accept any kind of wage offered to them.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by ker2010
 


All you talk about is racism card.


You illegal immigrant supporters are on the losing end when it comes to public opinion.


Wonder what you would have to say if public opinion and polls were in favor of illegal immigrants. Guess then you would call BS on them.

What you don't get is that many of the people you are talking to are not supporters of illegal immigrants.

I just find it applauding that people like you would rather sit here typing (many times bashing) about illegals than going after the people who are the true problems.

The solution is simple and less expensive than fortifying the border. Go after the employers.

If there are no jobs, illegals won't come.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:08 AM
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Reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Come seriously do you really did any of this proved...are you really ignorant to the problems. Many threadys have already laid out the facts. This one actually very much sugar coats the situation. You should be happy that this thread really isn't that bad...


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Yep cause everytime race is brought up in the thread its by a pro illegal fan boy.

Ok we need to change our governemnt right? Ok well your right we do they are corrupt. But so does mexico's citizens they need to fix their country as well instead of running from it.

You tell us to stop blaming the illegals. Well why dont the illegals blame their country and protest in their streets? They seem to have no problem protesting here in large numbers.



[edit on 14-5-2010 by ker2010]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ker2010
 






The solution is simple and less expensive than fortifying the border. Go after the employers.

If there are no jobs, illegals won't come.


True but we cant get our government to do that.

Just like the mexicans seem to can not change their corrupt leaders and make mexico a better place to live.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by ker2010
 



Well why dont the illegals blame their country and protest in their streets?


If I could answer that than I would be illegal. But look at it from this point of few.

What is happening to our corrupt country? Aren't people getting tired of holding protests that lead to nowhere? Or if they do lead somewhere you get labeled and tagged as an extremist or terrorist.

Even you have to admit that Mexico has been a corrupt country for sometime. I'm sure the people are disillusioned and like us, don't know what to do about their government.

Which is better, the devil you know or the one you don't?

Our government doesn't want to deal with it because they know it plays to their advantage. Honestly, since this Arizona bill, has America really been focused on Washington?

I wish people would put the same energy on attacking Washington as they do illegals. Until they do, just continue to look for patch up jobs and for this issue to raise its ugly head at a future date.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ker2010


The solution is simple and less expensive than fortifying the border. Go after the employers.

If there are no jobs, illegals won't come.


And how exactly do you do that?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by jam321


Only stupid cause you call it stupid. Imagine all those American druggies suddenly becoming clean. Imagine all the lost money in incarceration, lawyers and courts fees, fines. Imagine the CIA with less money.

Drugs come in because there is money to be made. No Security is going to stop that.


Exactly, drugs were here BEFORE the illegal immigration problem. They will be here after a solution comes as well. As long as there are people who want to do drugs there will be people willing to sell them.

You want to end the crimes? The dreaded L word will take all the money out of the cartels hands in no time.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:26 AM
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I would just like to ask two things about your numbers

1. What is your source for all these random claims.

2. If poor Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays he must get double overtime or at least time and a half. Thats either ( double overtime just one day 50x8 400 x 52 28,000.00) Time and a half ( 37.5x8 300x52 15,600)

So when Evil jose illegal is at home with his family poor joe legal is making and extra 28k or 15k? doesn't sound like such a bad deal. can you add that into the numbers please?

You can't just add something negative for dramatic effect to make everyone feel bad for poor legal joe and not add the positive that comes from the overtime, because if not your only being as fair and balanced as fox news with your numbers and claims.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by XNeMeSis21]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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Reply to post by A Novel
 


A lot of people that are in support of illegal immigration seem so far removed from the situation that they really don't care if people have to suffer. Here at the university of wisconsin the only people that seem to get it are the ones majoring in business.

I say fine let the liberals have their way and allow illegal immigration. However, they should set up a "sponsor an illegal family program". Give up their homes and basic freedoms as a LEGAL citizen to live aside an illegal one.

Liberals seem okay with allowing illegals to intrude and affect other peoples lives so I seriously wonder how they would handle it if they were directly affected someway somehow.

I'm not directly affected, but I know that illegals are crime statistics, send american dollars back home, don't pay taxes, feed off gov programs, steal identities, steal jobs, gangs, drug trafficking because of their ties back to mexico...etc...

Worst of all though is that they send their kids to our public schools that they do not pay for. How can liberals not consider this horrible? In a time when schools are in financial trouble we have more students with less money which means less dollars spent per pupil. Cool...rob american citizen's kids of education. What a joke.

I was reading articles on when illegal immigrants commit crimes. Their not on record which makes it very difficult to investigate along with a slew of other things.


 
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