Should the American Flag Be Banned -- in America?

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

“Banning the American Flag…”

67% are in FAVOR of banning the flag.

This is what they want to teach our children.

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[edit on 13-5-2010 by In nothing we trust]

Yes, we need to ban the American flag in America, then we must make English the SECONDARY language here. Finally, we must encourage and support illegals and provide them with great American benefits, coverage, and the jobs that our young sons and daughters are begging to have in this lousy economy. In addition, we shall also LABEL those who DO NOT agree with this as a RACIST. What a plan, what a plan!

If this poll is a true representation of the populace, then it makes me want to:

1. weep for the remenants of the former United States of America
2. hawk up a hairball
3. mail said hairball to the pundits of political propaganda that would even consider this to be a meaningful poll.

What a crock. Sure, lets ban the flying of the American colors. It might upset someone. I have to hope this is some concoted tale of Fox's.

At this very moment, there is a Caymanian flag and an American flag neatly folded and awaiting flying tomorrow. In deference to protocol of the country I love and live in, the Cayman flag flies on the top.

I am so full of passion and anger I must truncate my post.

[insert full-auto smiley]

Go ahead... ban it, then ya better duck.....

Seriously though................ C'Mon Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are ya flat out plum dang crazy.... never happen, on my watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Alxandro
The flag stands for freedom, that in itself includes the freedom to wave any other flag.

I agree with you, but the American Flag stands for something GREATER than Freedom. What could be greater than Freedom?

You can read it in the Founding Documents: The God-given RIGHT to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"... Doesn't say anything about Freedom there.

The most important thing the American Flag stands for is Liberty, which is not the same as Freedom. This is something they need to teach in schools, as well as in government.

See, Liberty is our God-given RIGHT to make decisions for ourselves. When you have the RIGHT to make decisions, you can CHOOSE Freedom, or you can CHOOSE enslavement. But it's the RIGHT TO CHOOSE that must be protected above all other rights, even above the rights to Life and Happiness.

That right to choose is far more valuable to us than the product of our decision-making. Liberty is more valuable than Freedom. You can lose your Freedom by making the wrong decisions, but you can also regain your Freedom by making the correct decisions.

It's that RIGHT to choose that is our most valuable possession in America, it's what the Flag stands for, and it's worth spilling blood to retain that right.

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 5/13/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Meh, honestly I could care less if the flag was banned from school, altogether, or simply burned. People place entirely too much stock in symbolism.

I won't be getting rid of my flag, but this is a petty and nonsensical discussion because they will not ban the flag.

1) It's not terribly in line with the Bill of Rights or any nation on Earth

2) Schools are naturally afraid of law suits (dodge ball anyone?), and this would create hundreds overnight

3) We would make jingoistic folks more unstable than many of them already are.

Relax, take things as they come, not as they "might" be according to some frivolous Fox News Poll.

nuff said

I say we ban public schools and then any concerns over safety are rendered moot. Can anyone name a single private school in the U.S. that forces its students to walk through metal detectors before entering that institution? I am not aware of any. The dumbing down of Americans began with the advent of public schools, and the level of understanding of what freedom and Inalienable Rights are has become woefully indistinguishable from the level of understanding of Marxist ideals.

The usage of double speak, the lack of understanding of Constitutional principles and Inalienable Rights, and the demonization of our Founders can all be traced back to public schools. They are an economic burden on the public and have done little to facilitate learning, and knowledge, indeed, they have replaced learning and knowledge with indoctrination. Ban the public schools, and those who want an education will still get it, and those who don't, need not tax the public just so they can be babysat.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
People place entirely too much stock in symbolism.

Yet it's symbolism and our ability to focus on symbols that has enabled humankind to more effectively communicate vast and sophisticated ideas.

Our written languages, for example, are nothing more than a finite collection of symbols, each symbol conveying complex concepts greater than the simplistic strokes of the pen. We juggle and rearrange these simple symbols to create even larger and more sophisticated concepts.

Likewise, mathematics is nothing but a finite collection of symbols, meaningless when taken as individual characters and numerals, yet conveying some of the most astonishing concepts, including interdimensional physics. Mathematics, like music, is a universal language that enables anyone, anywhere on the planet, to grasp truly awesome concepts.

So, don't for a moment belittle the importance of symbolism as a means of human communication. The more information we can attach to a symbol, the more efficiently do we process information.

To me, and to hundreds of millions and billions of other people, the symbolism of our national flags conveys important truths about human ideals and historic struggles for those ideals. Our national flags embody more than mere national pride, they embody the story of our social and cultural evolution over the millennia.

To burn or discard or disrespect our flag is to take a piss on the noble struggles of humankind.

So, no, I don't think we take too much stock in symbolism. When we start discarding symbols, we're no different than the ancient Egyptians obliterating the monuments of their predecessors in an effort to revise our recollections of and our respect for our history.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

When we start discarding symbols, we're no different than the ancient Egyptians obliterating the monuments of their predecessors in an effort to revise our recollections of and our respect for our history.

I believe that was done by Akhenaten to eliminate polytheism, seize income and get everyone under one roof.

A power play for sure. Under Akhenaten ...

... gods were abolished, their images smashed, their names excised, their temples abandoned, and their revenues impounded.

ancienthistory.about.com...

Akhenaten sounds alot like a modern day CEO of a major Wall Street trading firm or a multi-national corporation.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by In nothing we trust]

Mexican flag flies over a US Post Office in CA.



NWO

U cant have this sovereign nation !!!


[edit on 13-5-2010 by boondock-saint]

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Akhenaten sounds alot like a modern day CEO of a major Wall Street trading firm or a multi-national corporation.

Or a racially-motivated political movement, for that matter, calling for the abolition of the Confederate Flag because it's politically incorrect, or atheists calling for the abolition of the Ten Commandments from government property, or schools calling for a ban on the American Flag.

Whatever the movement, and whatever their motivation and agenda, when they start trying to erase the past, you know that they're up to no good.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Yet it's symbolism and our ability to focus on symbols that has enabled humankind to more effectively communicate vast and sophisticated ideas.

Agreed in part as they have also been instrumental in genocide, slavery, and mass subjugation.

Our written languages, for example, are nothing more than a finite collection of symbols, each symbol conveying complex concepts greater than the simplistic strokes of the pen. We juggle and rearrange these simple symbols to create even larger and more sophisticated concepts.

Likewise, mathematics is nothing but a finite collection of symbols, meaningless when taken as individual characters and numerals, yet conveying some of the most astonishing concepts, including interdimensional physics. Mathematics, like music, is a universal language that enables anyone, anywhere on the planet, to grasp truly awesome concepts.

True, although these are not congruent points.

So, don't for a moment belittle the importance of symbolism as a means of human communication. The more information we can attach to a symbol, the more efficiently do we process information.

"belittle the importance"? Nah, placing too much stock is not advocating placing no stock.

To me, and to hundreds of millions and billions of other people, the symbolism of our national flags conveys important truths about human ideals and historic struggles for those ideals. Our national flags embody more than mere national pride, they embody the story of our social and cultural evolution over the millennia.

To burn or discard or disrespect our flag is to take a piss on the noble struggles of humankind.

Being a bit dramatic don't you think? I don't value cloth, personally, and never have. Either way, though, there is a distict difference between physical symbols and the ideas. The ideas aren't tangible and can not be burned, destroyed, banned, or forgotten unless we allow it.

You forget what symbols are to begin with, even though you started you post that way. It's the ideas that are important.

The physical Constitution means nothing to me. It's an old historic piece of paper. The ideas and evolution that brought us here are of value.

So, no, I don't think we take too much stock in symbolism. When we start discarding symbols, we're no different than the ancient Egyptians obliterating the monuments of their predecessors in an effort to revise our recollections of and our respect for our history.

— Doc Velocity

Removing the Nazi flag after WW2 didn't remove the Nazi's, their ideas, or what that flag represented. Additionally, I'd suggest that the danger in relying on symbols to a violent or irrationally emotional level, if that they mean different things to different people.

To you it means what you say it means, to others it means racist, or imperialistic, or simply murderers depending on who you ask.

Cherish ideas rather than that which stand for it.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by KrazyJethro]

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
You forget what symbols are to begin with, even though you started you post that way. It's the ideas that are important.

Precisely. So, what do you think our schools wish to ban — the red, white and blue fabric hanging from a pole, or the ideas and ideals associated with it?

Well, of course, they want to ban the meaning of the flag, not its mere physical presence.

The physical presence of the symbol evokes certain thoughts in the viewer, thoughts of history, of struggle, of triumph, of defeat, of Life and Death, of national pride and, ultimately, of American sovereignty.

That is what they want to ban. Not a rippling piece of cloth.

If the symbolism of the cloth was inconsequential, they wouldn't try to ban it.


— Doc Velocity




[edit on 5/13/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Precisely. So, what do you think our schools wish to ban — the red, white and blue fabric hanging from a pole, or the ideas and ideals associated with it?

Well, of course, they want to ban the meaning of the flag, not its mere physical presence.

The physical presence of the symbol evokes certain thoughts in the viewer, thoughts of history, of struggle, of triumph, of defeat, of Life and Death, of national pride and, ultimately, of American sovereignty.

That is what they want to ban. Not a rippling piece of cloth.

If the symbolism of the cloth was inconsequential, they wouldn't try to ban it.


— Doc Velocity

A fair point, but I'd suggest it takes more than some liberal universities and a fox poll to make that a reality.

Additionally, let's not forget the hundreds of millions privately owned firearms this country holds. Do you really expect, in this political climate, that anyone would try it, let alone get away with it?

If lawsuits don't scare them, some of our citizens surely will.

I remain unconcerned. Let's be clear though, I in no way would support a ban on the flag, only saying the idea doesn't bother me. I have 4 very American children to carry on after me, so even if they did remove it, the ideas wouldn't die. I suspect this is true of millions and millions of people.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I'd suggest that the danger in relying on symbols to a violent or irrationally emotional level, [is] that they mean different things to different people.

And, yet, the American Flag is all about the need for physical violence in resolving certain issues, including tyrannical oppression by a central government.

Yes, I understand that some people — notably in our government and in our state-sponsored educational system — wish to eliminate all thoughts of violence and armed insurrection from the populace, which is exactly the sort of resolution of which the American Flag reminds us.

No, we should not be teaching our children that "violence is never the answer"... American History teaches us precisely the opposite lesson, that there are causes for which we should be prepared to fight and die.

Liberty is one of them. And the American Flag is a constant reminder of the necessity of spilling blood in defense of Liberty.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 5/13/2010 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Doc Velocity

Agreed.
The flag is greater than any administration, past or present. It represents ideals of self-determination that we have come very close to realizing in this country.
I can think of no other symbol that represents what unites Americans, Americans that have the intelligence to understand the inheritance they are currently living off of.
Our federal government, unfortunately, is an enemy of those ideals.
And, THEY don't represent the flag.

first off they ban the american flag someones getting there ass beat 2nd of all im driving up to DC and going insane. after all wat would be the point america would be gone.

Originally posted by chaseninja[/i

... america would be gone.

Hello America is gone.

No one has come around and collected your gun yet, but America is dead.