European debt crisis, page 1

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Topic started on 13-5-2010 @ 01:08 AM by ironfalcon

European debt crisis

www.upi.com

MADRID, May 12 (UPI) -- Spain announced spending cuts meant to stave off an economic emergency such as the one that affected Greece.

Spain is one of the so-called PIIGS series of countries in financial crisis. The group includes Portugal, Italy and Ireland, Greece and Spain -- all members of the eurozone and all facing severe debt issues.

Greece's situation is the most dire and austerity measures taken by Athens set off huge demonstrations and strikes. European leaders and the International Monetary Fund have agreed to a loan for Greece to help it cover upcoming obligations.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Related News Links:
www.businessweek.com
www.theglobeandmail.com

[edit on 13/5/2010 by ironfalcon]

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 01:08 AM by ironfalcon

United States President Barack Obama welcomes President Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero of Spain to the Nuclear Security Summit at the Washington Convention Center, Monday, April 12, 2010 in Washington, DC.

The reality of the globalist bankster engineered financial crisis is starting to take its toll.

The debt-based economies of the EU nation states have caught the infectious virus of the globalist elite and are starting to groan under the unrepayable debt they have defaulted upon.

Remember, this financial crisis was engineered by design, thanks to the globalist banksters spearheaded by the criminal IMF to further consolidate power and control over the newly-monopolized economies.

www.upi.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 13/5/2010 by ironfalcon]

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 02:01 AM by muzzleflash

What?

Did it just say "PIIGS"?

You gotta be kidding me.

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 02:49 AM by Rockpuck

Originally posted by muzzleflash
What?

Did it just say "PIIGS"?

You gotta be kidding me.

Ya, really.. how embarrassing to have your country listed as a Pig. Not to subtle insult there.. I'd want to leave the EU just for that insult.

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 02:58 AM by plumranch

reply to post by ironfalcon

United States President Barack Obama welcomes President Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero of Spain to the Nuclear Security Summit at the Washington Convention Center, Monday, April 12

Bizarre! We have Obama, who has created the largest debt in the history of the US and the world US Post Largest Total Monthly Debt ! And Obama is in the world news advising the wise world leaders how to save money and otherwise conduct their affairs!

What utter hypocrisy! The man has confidence if not wisdom!

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 03:53 AM by Rockpuck

reply to post by plumranch

Not to mention he managed an April deficit .. the month when the US rakes in the most in taxes in the entire world... we post a deficit. 3rd time in history that's happened.

Not a small one either, 80 some billion dollars. Enough to bailout Greece lol.

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 04:59 AM by Dermo

Originally posted by ironfalcon
The debt-based economies of the EU nation states have caught the infectious virus of the globalist elite and are starting to groan under the unrepayable debt they have defaulted upon.

Lol.. I don't mean to be Johnny On The Spot Pedantic here or anything but if us "PIIGS" apparently already defaulted on our "unrepayable debt".. Wouldn't this problem be over now? I mean, if the "PIIGS" defaulted, the EURO would probably be gone already.. And if that had happened, believe me, you'd know about it.

Not even Greece has defaulted.. Yet anyway and it probably won't need restructuring for minimum approx a year, maximum never.. And it still doesn't look in any way likely that any other EUROZONE member will default unless the markets look their balls altogether and start falling..

If that happens, its not just the "PIIGS" that will be getting hurt.. Everyone will be going down.

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 05:05 AM by coffeesniffer

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by ironfalcon
The debt-based economies of the EU nation states have caught the infectious virus of the globalist elite and are starting to groan under the unrepayable debt they have defaulted upon.

Lol.. I don't mean to be Johnny On The Spot Pedantic here or anything but if us "PIIGS" apparently already defaulted on our "unrepayable debt".. Wouldn't this problem be over now? I mean, if the "PIIGS" defaulted, the EURO would probably be gone already.. And if that had happened, believe me, you'd know about it.

Not even Greece has defaulted.. Yet anyway and it probably won't need restructuring for minimum approx a year, maximum never.. And it still doesn't look in any way likely that any other EUROZONE member will default unless the markets look their balls altogether and start falling..

If that happens, its not just the "PIIGS" that will be getting hurt.. Everyone will be going down.

So everything is ticking over just fine then? perhaps we should all go back to maxing out our credit cards again and live for today :-)

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 05:17 AM by Dermo

Originally posted by coffeesniffer
So everything is ticking over just fine then? perhaps we should all go back to maxing out our credit cards again and live for today :-)

Where did I insinuate that? lol

Work away mate.. Im sure you'll have no problem getting a loan for a new high spec BMW..

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 05:23 AM by coffeesniffer

reply to post by Dermo

Sorry I thought you was saying that unless the markets decide to go after the PIGS then all is fine, my bad lol

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 05:50 AM by dragnet53

Originally posted by ironfalcon

United States President Barack Obama welcomes President Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero of Spain to the Nuclear Security Summit at the Washington Convention Center, Monday, April 12, 2010 in Washington, DC.

The reality of the globalist bankster engineered financial crisis is starting to take its toll.

The debt-based economies of the EU nation states have caught the infectious virus of the globalist elite and are starting to groan under the unrepayable debt they have defaulted upon.

Remember, this financial crisis was engineered by design, thanks to the globalist banksters spearheaded by the criminal IMF to further consolidate power and control over the newly-monopolized economies.

www.upi.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 13/5/2010 by ironfalcon]

I hope Obama doesn't actually help. We are in a latrine that hasn't been cleaned in months. I laugh at people that still support him and his regime. i agree with some points of Obama, but all he seems to be doing is spend and spend some more!

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 05:51 AM by ironfalcon

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by ironfalcon
The debt-based economies of the EU nation states have caught the infectious virus of the globalist elite and are starting to groan under the unrepayable debt they have defaulted upon.

Lol.. I don't mean to be Johnny On The Spot Pedantic here or anything but if us "PIIGS" apparently already defaulted on our "unrepayable debt".. Wouldn't this problem be over now? I mean, if the "PIIGS" defaulted, the EURO would probably be gone already.. And if that had happened, believe me, you'd know about it.

Not even Greece has defaulted.. Yet anyway and it probably won't need restructuring for minimum approx a year, maximum never.. And it still doesn't look in any way likely that any other EUROZONE member will default unless the markets look their balls altogether and start falling..

If that happens, its not just the "PIIGS" that will be getting hurt.. Everyone will be going down.

The reason why the entire Eurozone will go down is because of the centralized economy.

In the pre-EU Europe, every country had its own economic system, had their own sovereignty, and managable debt levels.

If the economy of a particular country was tanking, the economic conditions stayed in the country as if one light of a household just burned out.

Nowadays, the economies are all interconnected and centralized like lightbulbs of a Christmas tree. If one lightbulb burns out, the rest of them burn out. If a person contracted the Ebola virus in a packed movie theater, everyone in the theater will contract the virus.

Get the analogy?

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 05:55 AM by Romekje

Problem with this point of view is that the strong countries that can afford stepping out of the Euro trap, will do so the very chance they get.

It's already been opted in the Dutch government. With a national debt of max 6% GDP you really think strong economical powers will have themselves sucked into the failure the Euro became? They will step out and switch back to their national currencies overnight leaving the rest to bleed out.

Don't forget that this bailout package only bought time and didn't bailout anyone, just gave the banks a firmer stranglehold over the countries affected, and it gives the other EU countries time to decide on how to handle this entire situation.

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 06:05 AM by Dermo

reply to post by ironfalcon

I know a hell of a lot about the EU, EUROZONE and how the whole thing works and that analogy is not really correct..

The EU does not have a centralized economy. Where could you possibly have come up with that? Its easily the most decentralized economy in the world.

And we can't manage our debt levels now? You mean we could devalue our currencies.. Fact is, the EURO is better for everyone in the EU than any currency that came before it for economic, political and Geo-Economic and GeoPolitical reasons..

Other EU member exposure to damage from speculators occurs as a result of private capital lending to Public bodies.. Making up the Public debt.. If one member defaults and it owes banks in another member, then depending on the size of the debts, member number two may experience a liquidity issue.. So member one and two are subject to speculator doubts..

This does not affect everyone in the EUROZONE.. The devaluation of the currency is a breath of fresh air to the exporters.. However, to ensure a decent level of stability while debt issues are being sorted out, a bailout guarantee was needed..

This does not affect other non EUROZONE members of the EU any more than it would affect the US, China, Japan etc..

Im not saying in any way that there are no problems.. I am just pointing out facts.

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 06:21 AM by coffeesniffer

reply to post by Dermo

But your facts overwhelmingly support the notion that the EU is in a good position especially if they export outside of the euro zone but what about imports? Or is the euro zone predominantly export driven? Just wondering how export/import balances across the eurozone and as you know how it all works who better to ask

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 06:31 AM by Dermo

reply to post by coffeesniffer

Obviously thats where the main problem is for the future..

A devaluation of the currency - which has been occurring, forcing of Club Med to ensure its debt levels and deficit are keep to Maastricht levels and the convincing of Germany to stimulate internal spending in order to subversively lower their surplus will balance the books substantially between North and South.. Both ends will have to make substantial changes but the main issue lies with Germany..

Also, the only way to secure the EURO and EUROZONE is fiscal governance.. And whether you or I agree with it or not.. Its on the way. It came in with a bang a during the week and will evolve slowly over the next two years..

Either that or the whole thing will fall apart.. A highly unlikely scenario that would end up in a catastrophic global economic meltdown.

**Edit to add**

Didn't see your first question..

The EU doesn't need to worry about import prices for the most part seeing as it is such a massive economy.. Almost everything needed is created inside it. Also, when exports increase, that will offset the increase in costs of imports...

As I said before though, there are obviously some serious issues involved in the zone, but its definitely workable. It'll be painful for many and the EU will have a very powerful fiscal government at the end, unfortunately.

[edit on 13/5/10 by Dermo]

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