Why do you believe in dimensions?

OK, first let me explain;

I believe that the material universe is a holographic representation of self through the material mind. I believe that consciousness is the light being shown into/through that holographic representation of self. Now having said that,

My problem with dimensions. I here a lot of people talk about a non finite approach to a 5th dimensional plane of existence, or high dimensional selfs. The main issue i have with the dimensional approach is this,

Defining a dimension within terms and numbers implys that said dimension is finite through the entrance into said dimension. If there is a 5th dimension/ higher dimensional plane, entrance into this dimensional (timeless) plane would suggest that it is finite and hence forth measurable. That would mean that the 5th dimension as stated would be measurable through time. How is this possible? How can you measure the ending of a finite existence into a non finite existence? I believe there is no such thing. In order to begin a non finite existence you need to exit your finite existence, marking the beginning of your infinite experience. Not plausible. From an infinite perspective you can not begin your infinite experience. There has always been an infinite experience.

So what i am suggesting is this;

We are already within the terms of an infinite/ 5th dimensional plane. If you had to term it. If this is the case i believe we are spellbound by a material sense of finite.

I hope i correctly portrayed my theory.

Basically, unless you can completely absolve yourself of the finite/material reality you can never experience the infinite reality of consciousness, or true projection of self. There is no 5th dimension. You are already in it. Leaving behind the material is not as much leaving behind a computer, as it is leaving behind the idea of the computer.

Feel free to add positive insight, and or logical argument. Or for clarification(i may not be understandable haha), please ask.

Yes i believe in dimensions and I believe the reason they exist is twofold.

1) They exist to protect the higher realms from contamination and

2) They protect fragile minds from over exposure to too much information.


[edit on 12-5-2010 by pharaohmoan]

Originally posted by onequestion
Defining a dimension within terms and numbers implys that said dimension is finite through the entrance into said dimension.

You are also implying that there is such thing like an "Entrance" and that the "other dimension" is "in a different place" that our current know dimensions.

Your conclusion "We are already within the terms of an infinite/ 5th dimensional plane", is (up to a certain point) my current understanding.

From where do you think that higher dimensions are defined within terms?

We are inside the infinite, being aware just of a little part of the dimensions and reality.

Have you read about topology?? It has very interesting arguments about how can there multiple dimensions integrated in our reality. Or Carlos Castaneda and his worlds within worlds?

In order to "get" to a different dimension we are implying that the dimension is not where we are.

I am implying that the dimensions exist within themselves and are a perspective based reality.

Topology is something that i have not heard of. I would be interested in doing some research though.

reply to post by onequestion


I don't personally subscribe to the whole holographic universe idea nor to dimensions myself.

I personally dislike dimensions and I hope I can convey simply enough why:

When we talk about three dimensional space, we're talking about height, width and depth. In order for us to conceptualize this third dimensional space, we plot out object in a coordinate based system. We then attempt to validate three dimensional space by extrapolating backwards two dimensional space and one dimensional space. Neither of which actually exist or have been shown to physically exist. We can't travel into either and both exist only in mathematics.

We then attempt to extrapolate forward in dimensions, such as a fourth dimension of travel based on time. Unfortunately, many wrongly assume that we travel forwards through "time" and that we can equally travel backwards as a direction of travel as if we were moving through a three dimensional space.

This is a big no no in my book of opinions. All devices that measure "time" are actually measuring nothing more than the position of the sun at a given point based on the Earths rotation. When it's 12pm on a digital clock, we can verify that the sun is indeed straight up in the sky. The duration between 12pm to 4pm can be verified as the rate of rotation of the Earth and the suns positions from 12pm to 4pm. Not a single clock measures time and never has. It's an abstract tool in the same manner as a calendar is not a measure of time either.

So, this whole notion of dimensions is just rather odd and silly to me. I view reality as one reality where we can spatially move within it at any angle and direction and the only component of "time" is an eternal "now" for lack of better words. The past doesn't exist as entropy can't be reversed for the entire universe nor does the future exist as the events have yet to take place.

Maybe I'll reply later on why I dislike the holographic universe idea too.

I am interested on your point about the holographic universe. I am not really referencing this theory completely. The real point i like about this theory is the fact that information would exist within itself. If that is what it is saying anyway. When i use the term projection, i use it in terms of self, or perspective. Now, this is something i am working through or on understanding.

Projection of consciousness through the mind, projects your perspective into your reality so that you see what perspective you have within the collective conscious.

I hope i am clear to you.

I agree with your experience on dimensions. I really disagree with the theory and i am helping myself understand why. I also have problems with mathematics. I don't believe in anything mathematics.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by onequestion]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by onequestion]

I believe we are surrounded by dimensions because many times when I have meditated I have become aware of a hidden space that is difficult to describe with words or text and it comes with a breath taking euphoric full body vibration.

The closest I can come to describing it is to see this hidden space as a stunning cavern somewhere near me, above and sometimes below me that to all intents and purposes feel like a concave area lined with brushed gold and etched with a mass of glyphs, ancient looking and weird.

Mediation is the key to something very important to us all like a birthright we have forgotten or we gave up. I have meditated and then been introduced to two UFOS directly above me so aye, there is something weird going on I just wish I had a bigger clue as to what that was because right now I feel like I am scrabbling around in the dark.

I once connected to a presence of countless thousands of other people just like me all going ‘WOAH what the...This is amazing.’ I had a feeling that all these other people were meditators just like me from all around the world who at that particular time had broken through a "barrier" and connected to each other.

Scattered among us were others, different others. I cannot describe the difference other than to say I recognised and accepted a difference in these calm others like teachers but much more than that. These “others” were struggling against a multitude of confused and yammering voices all happy and amazed as I was. They were trying and failing to explain the nature of what I can only describe as a permanent data stream that surrounds us all and is used as a means of communication.

A hazy grey (?) room that is felt more than seen but there is a sense of a large voluminous chamber that at least I am certain of.

The vehicle of this communication is a high pitched keening between the ears and to use this vehicle one must make meditation an intrinsic part of what you are. All I can say to describe it is that this “data stream” makes radio and the internet feel about as primitive as someone scratching a name on a rock and throwing it toward a recipient and shouting to the recipient, ‘Catch my email.’

It sounds nuts I agree but want to see nuts then a few evenings ago myself and my daughters (and my neighbour) watched a bright UFO so call me nuts if you wish because to be blunt, I do not care because my 20 year old is not happy at all to have seen this UFO at such close quarters as she is a typical girl just wanting to face book and party.

Another thing, since this latest UFO encounter I have been experiencing emotions of yearning, a craving for something I have no hope of ever satisfying and it is strong enough to stop me in my tracks and leave me feeling very introspective, sad and lonely like I have been abandoned.

Normally I have felt this perhaps five times throughout my whole life yet since this latest UFO sighting I have felt this powerful “craving” three times now.
What is going on?

My daughter is angry with me like it is my fault. Today she told me that during the sighting I “weirded” out and started babbling (her words) yet I simply remember raising my right hand in welcome and saying words of peace love- whatever as I grinned at the light and asked my girls if they could feel the love (lol I know).

Yes I am growing impatient for answers regarding the phenomena we have been experiencing over the past several years.

You asked why I believe in other dimensions and I have voluntarily told you because I sincerely hope there is someone here who has experienced what I have.

PS: I do not drink or do drugs – not even aspirin and my mind is healthy and not prone to hallucinations.




[edit on 12-5-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]

reply to post by onequestion


Not everything in mathematics is bunk mind you. Your computer works through mathematical computation and without it, wouldn't exist. It's things like... making up what gravity is or a dimension of time that really get's me going.Or making up unscientific concepts like dark matter/energy or string theory and quantum gravity, which the holographic universe is based off of, hence also unscientific.

reply to post by SmokeJaguar67


It seems like you are right on track with your thoughts and insights. I can testify to experiencing very similar things, in actual fact what is just beyond our normal field of awareness is truly mind blowing.

reply to post by SmokeJaguar67


I am curious what meditation you are using for achieving such "success"?

Do you view this "place" as separate from your current "place"? I use the "" because i haven't experienced what you have and cannot describe it.

I agree with your analysis on meditation. Although there is something about the differences in meditation i have been concerned about lately.

Let me ask you this,
When you meditate, what is your goal of said meditation? That is if you define a goal. Better yet, when you meditate, what is your expected experience? May this be playing a role?

I am worried that some of our experiences may be credit to illusion. I say our because i have had experiences while meditating, although i do not always associate them with a credible source. I do not wish to downplay your experience or perspective. I just wish to more understand what it is you are experiencing.

The whole subject of UFO's credibly is for a thread unto itself for another discussion. I would rather explore our conscious experience currently.

reply to post by sirnex


Ok, i will have to agree with you there as well. Can we call it applied mathematics? I am not sure about that. The reason i say i don't believe in mathematics is because i am adjusting my awareness, or expanding my consciousness into a less finite approach.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by sirnex

 

Ok, i will have to agree with you there as well. Can we call it applied mathematics? I am not sure about that. The reason i say i don't believe in mathematics is because i am adjusting my awareness, or expanding my consciousness into a less finite approach.

Applied mathematics is fine enough term for me I suppose.. At least to a point.

I'm confused though, what do you mean by 'expanding your consciousness into a less finite approach'? I'm not aware of how one would expand something like consciousness, which is another way of saying self awareness. How does one become more self aware of oneself?

reply to post by onequestion


I'm more of your line of thinking. However, I also look at it like this, there is the 2-d world(the way insects see the world), theres the 3-d (the way we see the world); so logic dictates that there must be higher ones for more complex forms of life( to see the world).In my opinion, You can only learn so much from one place before you HAVE to go somewhere else and learn. The higher dimensions in my opinion is just a different more complex form of matter with different lessons to offer your soul to learn from.

Originally posted by agentofchaos
reply to post by onequestion

 

I'm more of your line of thinking. However, I also look at it like this, there is the 2-d world(the way insects see the world), theres the 3-d (the way we see the world); so logic dictates that there must be higher ones for more complex forms of life( to see the world).In my opinion, You can only learn so much from one place before you HAVE to go somewhere else and learn. The higher dimensions in my opinion is just a different more complex form of matter with different lessons to offer your soul to learn from.

How do you figure insects see a two dimensional world when they are three dimensional creatures? A two dimensional creature, such as described in flatland (excellent book BTW) can only move left, right, forwards and backwards. All insects are capable of traveling that third dimension of up and down.

I'm unsure where your drawing your conclusions.

reply to post by onequestion

Originally posted by onequestion I am curious what meditation you are using for achieving such "success"? Do you view this "place" as separate from your current "place"?

This place is separate from my current place but only by vibration not distance or space. I will try and explain it without suffering a nose bleed but the way I sense it is that the laws that govern mass have no bearing whatsoever and what is important is the depth of tone of the vibration. If I was to describe it in terms of matter then I could only say that a bee had melded with another bee but the two were not aware of the melding or had even been aware of the existence of the other.

A molecule slides into the space between molecules and starts to sing the same song, dance to the same tune. It is a terrible analogy but it is as close as I can describe it without getting tongue tied by bringing in the vital importance of vibration.

Originally posted by onequestion I use the "" because i haven't experienced what you have and cannot describe it. I agree with your analysis on meditation. Although there is something about the differences in meditation i have been concerned about lately. Let me ask you this, When you meditate, what is your goal of said meditation?

I started to meditate to achieve astral projection!

My Uncle told me once that he used to do it very often and he told me that he could achieve it very easily and he even wrote down his technique and left me too it. His wife told me once that when he meditated she touched him once and she experienced a feeling of instant nausea and had a feeling of falling out of her body and through the bed.

She did not like this I must add.

My uncle did this for years but he only did it for simple laughs and never to learn anything and one day he told me that he would never do it again because one night he left his body and experienced being grabbed violently and pushed down into his body with a feeling he had just angered something intensely.

Months after he told me this my cousin, his son died In Berwick upon Tweed by falling off the road bridge and he broke his neck and back. My uncle since then has suffered a debilitating disease that has wrecked his heart and lungs and he is pretty much just waiting to die now. He told me with great seriousness that his antics in astral projection and the silliness of bouncing off walls and just having simple fun with it gained the attention of something and this something decided to destroy his life.

Now the odd thing about his account is that I have encountered something that I can only call a malevolent entity that I could actually smell that pretty much told me to wind my neck in, stop meddling in things I cannot understand and know my place as something that is owned (?) or else. I have never responded well to threats and I laughed at it and willed it to do its worst with the mindset of “death or everything.” For an instant this thing seemed to recoil and then it got very angry indeed and I was sure I was about to die as I had an instant feeling I had surprised and upset something that firstly is not used to being surprised and secondly takes being upset by “my kind” very seriously indeed.

The ceiling seemed to collapse on me and this nasty (SNIP) dived down my throat, all dagger-teeth and claws and was gone because I willed it to do its worse while telling it I was not afraid of it. Horrifyingly I was not asleep, I was wide awake when I experienced this and I never want to go through this again.

Perhaps my uncle experienced something similar only he came off much less fortunate because he did come across that he had been utterly terrified by something and I do know for certain that he never tried to astral project again – it therefore seems that he took the warning from something and gave in to fear?

As it happens I do not try to astral project anymore and it was never really my bag, I try to explore the room lined with brushed gold with a mind to understanding the glyphs that are etched there - with little success I might add.

Originally posted by onequestion That is if you define a goal. Better yet, when you meditate, what is your expected experience?

My expected experience is to break through into this grey room again and connect with the people I met before and talk with the “teacher” types because I wanted to listen but there was too much background noise and milling confusion. I know I will break through again so I am not in a hurry as I have a sense of a synchronicity and that things (everything) seem to happen for a reason?

Originally posted by onequestion May this be playing a role? I am worried that some of our experiences may be credit to illusion. I say our because i have had experiences while meditating, although i do not always associate them with a credible source.

I have actually wondered a few times if I am dancing with insanity but if this is an illusion then the human mind is much more powerful than anyone could ever imagine because I know I have a vivid imagination but not so vivid as to come up with the things I have experienced. Also I once meditated back in 2008 (8th of May) and during this mediation I pretty much begged to see a UFO and guess what – I saw two.

Coincidence, illusion or my thoughts were heard? I go with the latter because I tend not to believe in such coincidences and also because my wife saw one with an ambulance crew many months later as we walked our dog near our house.

Originally posted by onequestion I do not wish to downplay your experience or perspective. I just wish to more understand what it is you are experiencing. The whole subject of UFO's credibly is for a thread unto itself for another discussion. I would rather explore our conscious experience currently.

Unfortunately right now it is very difficult for me to put aside the UFO topic because I am still coming to terms and decompressing from the psychological effect that the latest UFO sighting has had on me and my daughters (7th of this month).

I apologise if I have come close to going of topic but it was not my intent because in effect I believe that meditation and the UFO phenomenon and even the extraterrestrial visitation phenomenon may be linked, even hardwired to interact concurrently with each other. I go one further and hypothesise that they are all part of the same infrastructure.

My experience right now is that meditation is unlocking something I have no way to define because I have no point of reference to work from in explaining it. All I can say to explain my experience right now is that the world seems subtly different and I feel like I have a nagging scratch that I have been conned by my social programming that started when I was first expected to follow the norm and conform like everyone else.

Something else of note... I am not afraid of anything I know that much and if something negative comes to me from me talking about this so openly then I say bring it right on (smile).


[edit on 12-5-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]

reply to post by sirnex


Ok, for sake of argument lets say readjusting my perspective to a more infinite approach. Or at least the exploration thereof.

I wouldn't say more self aware of ones self. I would rather think of it as, more aware of ones true self. At the same time i am building a definition for true self. I hope that helps.

reply to post by SmokeJaguar67


Thanks for your input first off.

Ok, this is something i have been considering as of lately. I have lately been considering the astral plane the home of the devil. I use the term devil loosely. Lets say negative. I have heard other people refer to it as the plane of illusion. Something i have been considering is that mybe this is an area of exploration that for a person of a more positive nature should leave alone. I like you have had entities involve themselves into my meditations in the astral plane. This is all speculative and something i am more recently exploring.

I to believe in a "spiritual" body, or embodiment. In fact i can "activate" this body anytime i wish. It feels like a static charge has entered my body, or at least something similar.

I do understand your position with UFO's as i have had really intense experiences with them. The experience i had with UFO's is that the ones i encountered were the government, or working closely with them. If you would like to ask me about that, please feel free to U2U. This experience is very, i want to secretive, or deals with something very secretive. But i am not sure how to properly explain it. This is what actually lead me to this website.

reply to post by agentofchaos


Ok, i do understand your point of view.

From an infinite perspective we would have already learned everything we need. This idea of needing to learn to me seems foreign. I don't see a soul, or entity as having to need to learn something from anything. I think it comes down to experience. More or less to experience different perspectives. Weather these perspectives will provide us with understanding, knowledge, or just for plain what the hell, i am not sure. I lean more towards the what the hell end of things though.

reply to post by SmokeJaguar67


This gray room (or chamber) was the topic of a thread :

The Gray Area » Looking for people who have been to the grey room


This person who stated the thread talked about being in a grey room with virtual strangers who she had an instant repore. She was attempting to locate people who have either through dreams, astal projection or whatever means visited this "place". The first couple of pages she is very
vague but as more people reply to her posts she goes on to describe the non human entities in this room as well. Maybe it will answer some of your questions of longing for this place and possible reasons why.

And PLEASE always protect yourself with a white light by visualizing yourself encapsulated in it while you meditate or astral project. Lower entites lurk in lower dimensions. Please don't provoke what you don't understand.

If dimension are real then I believe we interact with them more on a daily basis than we realize. Possibly with ever decision we make...