What's the "Rapture"?

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
reply to post by endtimer

 

These 144,000 will try to get humanity to convert to Christianity, meaning putting complete faith in Jesus.

So you are saying that according to Christian beliefs the ones who do not have a personal messiah, will be forever burning in hell?
That's the problem you see, I would be one of these people. To me, having a personal messianic figure, would just be evolution and spiritual death.
So I wouldn't mind to endure the seven years just to fight for my spiritual freedom I guess.
Jesus coming to the Earth to judge everyone, why is that. I never did any harm to anyone, so I would probably choose myself instead of Jesus, since my God Loves everyone unconditionally. Off course I would probably be prosecuted by Christians or worst be crucified on the cross (lol how ironic).
I'm willing to take my chances nonetheless.
Anyway just some food for thought.

I am only quoting what believers in Christ have faith in. I didn't write the
Bible. It is taught in the Bible that through Christ and Him only, is the way
to Heaven. You can either believe in that or not. We believe that there are
only two directions to take. One or the other. There is no fence to sit on.
One is to accept Christ and live an eternity in Heaven, or, Not accept
Christ and live an eternity in Hell with Satan.

I never said Jesus was COMING TO EARTH to judge. That will be done at
the right hand of the Father, in heaven. You are correct in saying that God
loves everyone. But when we were born, we were all given something
that is called free choice. And that simply means believing in Christ and
following his teachings, or, NOT believing in Christ and NOT following his
teachings. Again, I didn't write this. I just have faith and believe in this as
that was just the way I was raised. If you weren't taught that and don't
believe in it or just won't accept it, then that is your right. I don't condemn
you for your beliefs at all. It is the job of every Christian to ask people to
just look at what the Bible says, see what Christ is about, and make up
your own mind about things.

Having spiritual freedom as you alluded to, is what I was referring to
when I mentioned God giving us free choice. If you want to be on earth
during the seven year Tribulation, that too is your choice. But if you
chose Christ to be your savior, and do it soon, then you will be Raptured
and will never have to worry about taking your chances on earth and
trying to survive during that period. You will already have survived by
asking Jesus to come into your heart and life.

And you will NOT be persecuted by Christians in any way. And you will
never be crucified on the cross. Jesus already did that, so a sinner like me
can have my sins washed away and have everlasting life. You will be
persecuted and a lot worse by the antichrist, whether you decide to
accept Christ or not, if you are left on the earth after the Rapture.

I hope this helps with some of your questions. And remember, I am only
stating the beliefs of most Christians and myself. I am not trying to tell you
what to do with your life, only making some observations for you.

reply to post by endtimer


I do not share that perspective.
I wash my hands, I have nothing to do with Jesus, I have nothing to do with Satan, extraterrestrial beings, invaders whatever.
My life, so I should be the one who decides where I'm going.
To me they sound more like megalomaniac beings that think that can decide for everyone else. What if I choose not to pay any attention to both of them? Nobody can tell me otherwise. Unless GOD offcourse. I'm the one who should make his own decisions...and if I get f***** at least I know that I stand for Universal Justice. The Truth.



[edit on 12-5-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
reply to post by endtimer

 

I do not share that perspective.
I wash my hands, I have nothing to do with Jesus, I have nothing to do with Satan, extraterrestrial beings, invaders whatever.
My life, so I should be the one who decides where I'm going.
To me they sound more like megalomaniac beings that think that can decide for everyone else. What if I choose not to pay any attention to both of them? Nobody can tell me otherwise. Unless GOD offcourse. I'm the one who should make his own decisions...and if I get f***** at least I know that I stand for Universal Justice. The Truth.



[edit on 12-5-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

That's entirely the point. You don't have to share this belief whatsoever.
Go ahead and decide where you are going. You have that right. If you had
taken any time at all, you would have noticed that I AM NOT deciding for
you what to believe. Get a grip on what is said before you fly off the
handle.. Don't believe in Christ. That is your choice. Don't believe in the
antichrist. That is your choice. Nowhere did I say you have to believe
what I or other Christians believe in. Try and read what is said and not
blast me for my beliefs. Enuff already !!

Biblically, the rapture is a Post-Tribulation occurance. If you read 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, you'll read that the raputre occurs after the sound of the trumpet of God. In 1 Corinthians 15:50-52 you'll read that this "twinkling of the eye" occurance happens after the "Last Trumpet." In Matthew 24:29-31 we read of a trumpet sound as Jesus returns to earth to set up His kingdom on Earth. Why is this proof of a "post-trib" rapture? Because in Revelation we read of a series of 7 trumpets. The 7th trumpet is the one that announces the kingdoms of this world becoming the Kingdom of God and of His Christ. This "Last Trumpet", "Trumpet of God", "7th Trumpet" is to occur at the end of the Tribulation. Further evidence in the bible shows that the first two dead bodies to resurrect will be the two witnesses that are killed 3 1/2 days before the return of Christ. The dead in Christ do not rise until the return of Christ on earth. If this is true, the living christians who get raptured will not take part until the return of Christ after the tribulation.

Also, to those who think only christians will make it to the Kingdom of God, know this.... only a very select few are selected for the "First Resurrection/Rapture" to become kings and priests in the Kingdom of God. Some people who are not raptured and are still living when Christ returns will live on into the 1000 year peace on earth. Those who died and were not in Christ will resurrect in the 2nd resurrection AFTER the 1000 year peace on earth. The will have a genuine opportunity to repent of any sins they committed and join the family of God. Only the truely cold in heart... or evil people will burn in the lake of fire and DIE a 2nd death. No eternal punishment... just a death sentence and no afterthought. This is because God wants to purge all evil from the world. You can't do that by keeping them alive in a fire to be tormented. That alone would be sin and we all know God is not a sinner.... Satan is. All good people in the world, no worries if you are not a current believer.... just believe when you're in His presence. And all "self-proclaimed christians", don't be angry if you don't get raptured. I wouldn't expect too much when that time comes. You'll suffer with the rest of us unless you're an extremely special person along the lines of the original apostles. These raptured are "Leaders" and living a christian life is suppose to teach you leadership skills.

reply to post by endtimer


I wasn't attacking. I apologise if sound like it.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
reply to post by endtimer

 

I wasn't attacking. I apologise if sound like it.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

No problem. I thought I was only trying to help clear up some things that
a lot of Christians believe in.

And to Locoman8:

Thanks for the added description. That is what I meant by some people
believing in a pre-trib, mid-tib, and post-trib scenario. Different meanings
from different people deciphering the Bible in different ways. That's all.
I enjoyed reading what you said, but I have some different beliefs in it
than you. Just have faith I guess is the way to go.

OP nobody answered your question right so I will. It is when Jesus comes back and takes all the Christians to be with him in heaven. They will come back after the 7 year tribulation and will defeat the antichrist. Then, Jesus will rule the world.

reply to post by Rich Man


That sounds just like alien programming...pretty scary and creepy.
At this point of the conversation I'm terribly sorry If I'm offending any Christian here...I need to talk about this stuff.
What if Jesus is just an alien trying to take over the Earth? What sins have Humanity committed by the Time of the Crucifixion?
We have been messed up by extraterrestrials since Atlantis...
Christians and a army of zombies, that does not sound good at all....:X

[edit on 12-5-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

As far as the way I read the Bible there is no maximum
limit or number used to describe how many Christians
will be included in the Rapture. It is EVERYONE who
believes in Jesus, no matter how many there is.
The only excluded ones from the rapture are the
non-believers.

If one strictly goes by scripture, then it is made very clear that only 144,000 receive a ticket... In addition, these 144,000 must be virgin males and descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel (again, just by scripture in Revelation). I also agree that the scripture places this as post-tribulation (even though that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of logical sense...it is the timeframe given).

It's why Jehovah's Witnesses always confused me...how on Earth do you attract female followers to the sect? (or even males, for that matter?). How do you make more sect followers if you must stay virginal? (nevermind the whole no holidays thing....)... I'd certainly be appreciative of a JW enlightening me on it though.....(I assume that it's a different interpretation, such as "oh, well this guy came later and apparently God clarified that little typo" kind of thing)... Sorry to be a bit tongue in cheek here, but in reading Revelation, there seems to be VERY little wiggle room for interpreting it another way....

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_
Wow, so much ignorance in this thread...

The word "Rapture" is an English theological term to describe the "catching away" of the Bride of Christ/Church just prior to the antichrist being revealed on Earth. The church or Bride must first be removed from the Earth before the antichrist can come to power because, if the bride is still present, then you'd have over 1 billion people all screaming in unison: "THAT GUY IS THE ANTICHRIST!!! DON'T TRUST HIM, DON"T TAKE HIS MARK, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM et cetra, et cetra..."

We call the "rapture" an English theological term because if is derived from the Latin word "Rapturo", which is derived from the Greek word "Harpazo". Harpazo is the Greek word used for "caught up" used in Thessalonians when Paul is first describing the rapture of Christians who are alive on Earth.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by _SilentAssassin_

 

Wow, so much ignorance in this thread...

And you've just added to the ignorance with that comment along with the rest of your thread. It's hypocritical for you to call everyone else ignorant.

The word "Rapture" is an English theological term to describe the "catching away" of the Bride of Christ/Church just prior to the antichrist being revealed on Earth. The church or Bride must first be removed from the Earth before the antichrist can come to power because, if the bride is still present, then you'd have over 1 billion people all screaming in unison: "THAT GUY IS THE ANTICHRIST!!! DON'T TRUST HIM, DON"T TAKE HIS MARK, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM et cetra, et cetra..."

I don't recall the bible every saying that the bride of Christ must be removed before the anti-christ comes into power and is revealed. And I guarantee that 90% of all "self-proclaimed" christians wouldn't know the anti-christ if it hit them in the face. It's more of a superpower nation than a person. Then there's the religious leader leading the false church. This is already in place in a mild form (Pope, RCC). Plus, no one would listen to us crazy christians if we shouted out that the anti-christ was here. Christians have done that for so long. Reagan was the AC, Bush was the AC, Obama is the AC. Everyone thinks the president of the United States is the Anti-Christ. I say, no one would believe the christians if they start shouting that the Anti-Christ was here.

We call the "rapture" an English theological term because if is derived from the Latin word "Rapturo", which is derived from the Greek word "Harpazo". Harpazo is the Greek word used for "caught up" used in Thessalonians when Paul is first describing the rapture of Christians who are alive on Earth.

Something I agree with you on finally. Point is, the bible doesn't say these christians will be caught up before the tribulation or in the middle of the tribulation. It does say on the Last Trumpet, Trumpet of God, 7th Trumpet. i.e. "The End of Tribulation".

reply to post by Gazrok

If one strictly goes by scripture, then it is made very clear that only 144,000 receive a ticket... In addition, these 144,000 must be virgin males and descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel (again, just by scripture in Revelation). I also agree that the scripture places this as post-tribulation (even though that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of logical sense...it is the timeframe given).

So only Jews or Israelite's go to heaven? Since most Jews rejected Jesus except for a small group of disciples, that can't be right.

The book of revelation flips back and forth between the literal and the symbolic.

144,000-Literal
Virgin Males-Symbolic of spiritual purity. Women are going too.
12 tribes of Israel-Symbolic of the new nation of "Spiritual Israel" which includes all races from humanity.

Many Christians think millions will be ruptured or taken to heaven. That is not going to happen, if you think God is going to rapture you to heaven and save you from the tribulation, you are gravely mistaken. If even the few going to heaven will have to deal with at least the first part of the tribulation, what does that tell you.

Matthew 24: 21&22

21For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again]. 22And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God's chosen ones) those days will be shortened.

The elect or God's chosen ones are the ones going to heaven, he cuts the great tribulation off to save them because they are still on earth.

1. "Ignorance" doesn't mean "stupidity", it simply means 'not familiar with'. "Ignorance" has nothing to do with a man's intelligence, just what a man has been taught. I'm ignorant to astrophysics, it doesn't mean I can't learn it, it simply means I have never taken a class on the subject.

2. It's impossible for the rapture to come after the Great Tribulation, for one the rapture is gonna happen when the Lord comes "as a thief in the night" how would that be a remote possibility after the world has endured the Great tribulation??? Are you seriously saying that no Christian will know the Great tribulation has occurred and we'll be caught off guard by the Lord returning for the church "as a thief in the night"?? That's a ludicrous position IMO. Second, the Lord also states that no man will know the day of hour of His return for the church, yet the days are given EXACTLY for the Great Tribulation, and the world can know exactly which day the Lord will return to the Earth for the battle of Armageddon. Thirdly, the "church" is absent from Revelation after chapter 4.

The pre-tribulation rapture is the only position that allows all the verses to be fulfilled.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

144,000-Literal
Virgin Males-Symbolic of spiritual purity. Women are going too.
12 tribes of Israel-Symbolic of the new nation of "Spiritual Israel" which includes all races from humanity.

You're taking 2 out of 3 to be symbolic.
I suggest better to take all three.
There is symbolism in the number as well as in the other features.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
1. "Ignorance" doesn't mean "stupidity", it simply means 'not familiar with'. "Ignorance" has nothing to do with a man's intelligence, just what a man has been taught. I'm ignorant to astrophysics, it doesn't mean I can't learn it, it simply means I have never taken a class on the subject.

Ignorance: lack of knowledge, education, or awareness.
You claimed many people on here of being ignorant as if you were the only knowledgeable one here. Problem is, your theory on the rapture has no biblical proof to it. It's full of assumption.

2. It's impossible for the rapture to come after the Great Tribulation, for one the rapture is gonna happen when the Lord comes "as a thief in the night" how would that be a remote possibility after the world has endured the Great tribulation??? Are you seriously saying that no Christian will know the Great tribulation has occurred and we'll be caught off guard by the Lord returning for the church "as a thief in the night"?? That's a ludicrous position IMO.

I have to lead you to the very first thread I ever started here on ATS. This will smack your assumption of "theif in the night" in the face.
The truth about "Thief in the night" and the Great Harlot of Revelation
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Second, the Lord also states that no man will know the day of hour of His return for the church, yet the days are given EXACTLY for the Great Tribulation, and the world can know exactly which day the Lord will return to the Earth for the battle of Armageddon. Thirdly, the "church" is absent from Revelation after chapter 4.

The amount of days long for the tribulation are given for Christ's return but His exact hour or time of day is unknown. Most christians won't know when the tribulation started because they will be "IGNORANT" of what's going on. Once again, read the above mentioned thread and it will answer the "day and hour" argument.
The church is not absent from revelation post chapter 4. If you read chapter 12, you'll read about a woman who gives birth to Jesus and then is sent into the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. This woman is God's true Church who were once an all Jewish group. The nation of Judea gave birth to Jesus. Many of these Jews became christian and started the christian church. God's true church will be protected for 3 1/2 years but not raptured until the end of Tribulation.

The pre-tribulation rapture is the only position that allows all the verses to be fulfilled.

Only in your way of looking at it. To me, your version has too much "assumption" to it. My beliefs give the bible full authority with minimal assumption involved. You may not be ignorant in the sense of "mainstream" christianity.... I mean, you are the bread and butter of the major denominations of christianity and they have spoon fed you well. That and movies or books like "Left Behind" help your mainstream views out. Just remember that God's church is a "Small flock" (Luke 12:32). 1 billion christians doesn't seem very small to me... even for all humans that have ever lived. Only this small flock will be raptured. They are raptured to become kings and priests in the Kingdom of God here on earth to those who live past the tribulation.

reply to post by Locoman8


Where is "heaven" to be more precise? You are talking about the Universe.

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_


Do you think that the angels and God are living in a certain physical galaxy in the universe? Or even one of the voids in between galaxy's?
Since God never lived in a physical universe before creation, why would he after creation?
They live in a non-physical spirit dimension, the only way our minds can comprehend it is by God telling us in the bible about a heavenly realm.

I guess the question is, if you could build a spaceship like we see in science fiction, could you travel to where God and the Angels live?

No.

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
I have heard a lot about this subject, but so far nobody managed to explain to me, what is this exactly, or if this is even suppose to be real?
Where does this myth come from?
Is it alien misinformation? What?
Can somebody please insight me a little bit about this?

Rapture

c.1600, "act of carrying off," from M.Fr. rapture, from M.L. raptura "seizure, rape, kidnapping," from L. raptus "a carrying off" (see rapt). Originally of women and cognate with rape (v.). Sense of "spiritual ecstasy" first recorded 1620s.

Every christian in the world is waiting for this having no idea what to actually expect, nor interpreting the scriptures correctly (I should say having the scriptures interpreted for them as they don't do it themselves, not all but most). It will be nothing like what they expect. To some it will be heaven, but to most it will be RAPE which is what the word means.

Rapture has been ongoing. It is not a single event, but rather a gathering one by one. Only those in danger of abomination of their temple (ending their blood line on the earth, them being the last) will truly experience it. Jesus didn't come to fix what was already fixed, rather to beat the broken back into shape and I mean BEAT. This is because, unless a falling away comes first so that the son of perdition might be revealed (who is Jesus in you), the end will not come.

Jesus says I will be with you even until the end of the age, because Jesus has been walking the earth since slaying his brother. Hence he causes all both young and old rich and poor to receive a mark in their right hand (Actions) or foreheads (procreative power and thought).

When you scope a wild animal to shoot so that you can kill it and eat it, you do it through the "CROSS" Hairs.

Why else would people wear the instrument of death suffered of the savior around their necks to hang right over their hearts....Golden Bulls eye.

Hey you can't be the beginning, unless you are also the end. Right meet left, head meet foot, ying meet yang, Christ meet Anti-Christ. One being seen through two eyes...pluck out one or he will take them both.

Peace

(P.S. Don't literally pluck out your eyes....unless they are glass, then do a trick for me...)

Double Peace

P.P.S. Jesus is an action. In this name you are literally saved, but not by prayer or magic, but because the name literally means "Self exhistent Salvation"...It is IN this name you are saved...not by it and is why he says "even to the least of these so to have you done it unto me"....Jesus is an action as it says, "God honors no man". If I could be saved by a name, I'd legally change mine, but I can't. All I can save is my blood for a new generation. That's all anyone can do....be fruitful and multiply or be erased from time. Either way, "No one's getting out of here alive"....Morrison

Triple peace and I'm spent....



[edit on 18-5-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by _SilentAssassin_

 

Do you think that the angels and God are living in a certain physical galaxy in the universe? Or even one of the voids in between galaxy's?
Since God never lived in a physical universe before creation, why would he after creation?
They live in a non-physical spirit dimension, the only way our minds can comprehend it is by God telling us in the bible about a heavenly realm.

I guess the question is, if you could build a spaceship like we see in science fiction, could you travel to where God and the Angels live?

No.

God is either true or not. If you believe he is true, why do you believe in untrue things. You can only know the truth of something by testing it, but if it doesn't exist, how can truth be made of it more then imagination.

A word goes forth from our mouth, but that is not what makes it true, but rather the fulfilling of our word is what makes it true wrong or right, as truth is contained in both. God is not true, if you can not show God to be true. He is around you daily, in physical form, you just don't see them yet. Think of "All knowing" as in "All" Knowing, that is, all the living of whom God is....The living God, not the image, but the real living God. Almost 7 Billion God....what a beast ehh?

God's name YHWH means "Self existent". His name is blasphemed daily by people doing contrary to his name, not by saying it, but by bowing down to crosses and hexagrams, and eagles. IN my name, IN my name, IN my name. "Self existent"....live it, this honors God. He has many faces and you see everyone you come into contact with.

Heaven is the place you currently reside and all those you are hoping to see are with you and in you. You are the house of the Lord...Working on that addition yet?

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be dividing between the waters and the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse, and He separated between the waters which were under the expanse and the waters which were above the expanse. And it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse, Heavens. And there was evening, and there was morning the second day.

Gen 6:3 And Jehovah said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man; in their erring he is flesh. And his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

Isa 66:1 So says Jehovah: Heaven is My throne, and earth the footstool of My feet. Where then is the house that you build for Me? And where then is the place of My rest?

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

See what is in front of you and the rest will become clear....We are the dwelling of God.

Peace

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I think God and the Universe are the same thing, just nature. Angels or highly progressive beings exist to protect it against the ones that turned into wicked.