Europe tells Britain not to ask for help in a crisis

Originally posted by Rockpuck
France and Germany will not drop out of the Euro. If Germany did that, and switched the Mark even at a 1:1 ratio, her people would suffer, because the Mark wouldn't hold and the Euro would collapse..

That's probably the only thing i can agree on this "I got it backwards" post of yours lol. Sorry to burst your bubble

Luxembourg is a tax heaven, they produce next to nothing, not for the lack of try but because it's just a city of 200k inhabitants, how is that helping the value of euro ? In fact if such a country did not exist the money of our wealthiest CEO's and associate crooks would be directly reinjected in our respectives economies in a form or another.At the end of the chain we all could pay at a better rate our respectives debt.Instead of that some of this money grow in banks, the absolute minimum is coming back to us and the rest go to China and such and i'm sure some isn't even reinvested but goes into luxury yatch and cigars.

The GDP per capita is one thing (France= 21th rank not bad eh? / Ireland= 9th rank) but there are also other factors like people's savings and how good you are to pay your debt so the creditors are happy. On the former france isn't on top of the list , on the other two i don't have numbers but we're above the lot without question.


Regarding Ireland:
GDP nominal : 38th rank (2008) (not bad) (france =5th rank in comparison)
External debt (% of GDP) = 960 % "ninety hundred & sixty %" if you have trouble reading.
Public debt: 110% (estimatation for 2013)
To put that in perspective: 100% = neck deep indebted and 110% = neck + head) get it ?

And you still think such economy is our savior ? I'd like to see you say it with a straight face so i can film that and put it on youtube.

Originally posted by RockpuckFrance has a love affair with immigrant workers

France is absolutely not in love with immigrants workers since at least a good decade...at least.Welcome to 2010.

Tell Britain to sign up to become part of the good old US of A. We can make her state 51.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

Americans love two countries: Britain and Ireland. Ya, we might drink German beer one weekend a year in October, and we pretend to think French food is worth a fortune .. but really you guys are the only ones we care about.

French food COSTS a fortune. Doesn't mean it's WORTH a fortune!

Now German beer... I can go along with that if my arm is twisted hard enough, but I generally gravitate towards Guiness...

I wouldn't take up residence in Britain for love or money... not even a LOT of love and a LOT of money... not even a lot of love, a lot of money, and a brand new Harley! They probably wouldn't have me anyhow, since most brits don't view me as entirely sane. But God love 'em, I'd do whatever I could to get 'em out of a mess, or help 'em out.

This bump in the road ain't nary a thing to worry about. They got friends around that'll help 'em in a pinch, and never even have to glance towards France.

[edit on 2010/5/12 by nenothtu]

reply to post by grantbeed


There's no beating the French ego! lol.. Germany and the IMF are doing the majority of the work, while the USA is actually propping the Euro, and France is taking the credit.

reply to post by themaster1

Luxembourg is a tax heaven, they produce next to nothing, not for the lack of try but because it's just a city of 200k inhabitants, how is that helping the value of euro ?

The Euro is a denomination that is calculated by the number of Euro's in print, the number being in ratio to the GDP/capita of each member country (for instance the UK is in the European Union, but not he monetary union) .. thus It's economy is not taken into effect. However small countries with high gdp per capita raise the AVERAGE of all countries.. the bigger countries like france have lower gdp/capita and thus their VALUE is actually far lower than smaller richer countries. So when I say smaller countries are the foundation, I simply mean that without them the average economic weight of just the big economies would = a much weaker Euro.

Has NOTHING to do with the actual size of the economy... which is the genius of it.

The GDP per capita is one thing (France= 21th rank not bad eh? / Ireland= 9th rank) but there are also other factors like people's savings and how good you are to pay your debt so the creditors are happy.

But none of that is calculated into the Euro .. the Euro is designed after the USD .. some states are very poor, like Arkansas or Mississippi .. while some are very large, like New York or California.. and some are very stable, like North Dakota, Wisconsin .. If Arkansas was it's own country, it's currency would be garbage. If California were it's own country, it's economy would be the 3rd largest in the World, but it would be bankrupt and poor. If North dakota was it's own country it would be very small, but very wealthy. If you take the average of all states, it equals wealthy .. but only because the huge power house economies are propped by the stable, smaller "servicer" economies.

Ireland and Luxumburg at the height of the global economy were the two richest countries in the World... even though they were among the smallest. They are not the only ones in Europe that help prop the Euro, just the two best examples.. countries like France and Spain use them .. and Germany tried to take advantage of everyone else and ended up getting screwed.

Originally posted by stumason
Damn the bloody french and their "blame the English" attitude.

Lol, although, to be perfectly honest, the English do exactly the same thing to the French.

Im not taking sides, mind you. I think its cute how much you two hate one another.

(It is less cute when you guys are killing each other though, so none of that.)

Pretty empty threat if you ask me. And by that I mean, the last that I checked even if the Pound was only worth 10 cents compared to the US dollar, it still makes it infinitely more valuable than the Franc, right? I mean currency in use is indeed worth more than currency no longer used.

Ultimately the question that the EU should be asking themselves is what will the rest of the world perceive of the value of the Euro without the Pound for comparison. After all a shopkeeper in Paris might accept a US 2 dollar bill for an item that would be worth $5 (after conversion) because he had never seen a $2 bill in person. Heck, many people here in the US have never seen one either for that matter and some will offer $2-3 for one if they really want it.

Originally posted by nenothtu
French food COSTS a fortune. Doesn't mean it's WORTH a fortune!

[edit on 2010/5/12 by nenothtu]

Maybe it's because it's cooked by americans & brits wannabe french Ever thought about that ?I bet not. They use all the french wording like "cuisine" and whatnot, if they're french then i'm spannish aha.
Business is king i suppose.

Why the hell europe should have to bail out Greece as it is, is beyond me. They dug their own financial hole, now let them climb out. You cant bankrupt a country and not know its happening in the process, so the Greek government knew a long while ago that things wernt right and did nothing to change it.

Spains cry about it hasnt got enough public funds to pay unemployment benefits and pensions, so its tax raise time but the bastards find nearly 100, 000,000 to give to the bloody greeks???

Originally posted by Mdv2
mon sense. If one shows no solidarity, you can't possible expect the other to be merciful. This is why the EU doesn't work. Nationalistic sentiment and chauvinism influence European politics so much that it blocks real progress.

A couple of month ago, Brown said that Greece is a Eurozone problem. Obviously, that is what the masses like to hear, but in reality British banks are exposed to PIIG countries for an amount of approximately E100 billion. If Greece goes down, it is gonna affect the British economy badly. Bear in mind that UK debt as percentage of GDP is third only behind Iceland and Greece.

Since Britain refuses to take responsibility, it's not that strange that they are being told not to expect any help if they get in the cross hairs of speculators.

So, is Greece the UK's responsibility? Doesn't look like it to me. What did UK get out of Greece before?

In the early 90s, Soros made the Pound collapse and considering the fragile economic state of the British economy, it wouldn't surprise if the focus is being shifted from the Euro to the Pound.

In the early 90's, Soros pressed on the pound so that it collapsed a few weeks/months earlier than it would have anyway.

Greece has a problem because it owes money in euros, which is not its own currency.

In the early 90's, the U.K. was attempting to hold an unsustainable peg of pound to the european-currency-unit (predecessor of euro).

Freeing that link helped them survive. Greece can't do that because they joined the euro.

The UK owes money in pounds, and since it can print pounds it will not have a sudden crash crisis like Greece and Argentina did, when they owed too much money in currency they couldn't print. It will have a slower crisis, but not anything the ECB can or will do anything about.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by mbkennel]

Originally posted by themaster1

Originally posted by nenothtu
French food COSTS a fortune. Doesn't mean it's WORTH a fortune!

[edit on 2010/5/12 by nenothtu]

Maybe it's because it's cooked by americans & brits wannabe french

Ever thought about that ?I bet not. They use all the french wording like "cuisine" and whatnot, if they're french then i'm spannish aha.
Business is king i suppose.

They probably ought to stop hiring Americans and Brits to cook in France then! French folks don't actually put that gawdawful stuff in their mouths, do they?

What I would like to know is, what happens if this ends up happening in several other EU countries?

Who will be next?

Is the bailout going to cover all bases?

reply to post by grantbeed


Since we now have a few EuroSceptics in power (at least so they say) I wonder if we are going to see an increase in Eurosceptic/EuroBashing news from the UK MSM?

reply to post by grantbeed


nothing will happen , they dump euro , go back to old currencies, euro looses its value , euro is then made in to a currency equalient that of traveler cheques, everyones happy , simple as that

another scenario would be that after a serious investigation has been made E.U puts sanctions on U.S based banking and demands compensation for the loses they made in europe not via the fed but by demanding resources.

Originally posted by grantbeed
What I would like to know is, what happens if this ends up happening in several other EU countries?

Who will be next?

Is the bailout going to cover all bases?

The bailout is intended for ALL European countries now, not just Greece. Instead of bailing just Greece they recognize that this could be a continuing problem .. so they brought out the big guns and created this ... super-national fund .. basically a backstop for the entire Eurozone..

Interesting bit of information though .. the backstop protection for the entire Eurozone is actually SMALLER than the single backstop protection loan the US created for Citibank .... just one bank .. I hope that helps some realize how small this fund is.

Also whether or not the countries that accept funds from the fun will be public I don't know ... once a country starts taking funds from it, it's kinda of the giant red arrow with neon lights screaming "Trouble!" ..

Greece will probably only consume few dozen billion at first.. enough to cover it's remaining socialist system until the next fiscal year. Meanwhile the central banks will funnel money into private sector banks to begin buying up sovereign debts throughout the EU.

The whole situation is just FUBAR .. I don't believe anything like this has ever occurred before, so their actions are kind of shadowy, because no one really knows whats gunna happen.

Originally posted by grantbeed
What I would like to know is, what happens if this ends up happening in several other EU countries?

Who will be next?

Is the bailout going to cover all bases?

IMHO, these bailouts are quite desperate (Both of Greece and the larger package).. Especially for the likes of Merkel who had to withdraw promised tax cuts to fund the new bailout package.. and even that is not seen as enough..

So where are Germany or France going to get the funds next time??

Sarkozy has already promised no austerity measures.. and Merkel has already lost seats over the deal..

More bailouts increases the risk that the contagion in the form of protests will spread to both those nations.

While back in the UK we ban the sale of the 500 Euro note (under the banner of crime prevention)

Intersting times indeed.

reply to post by Rockpuck

the backstop protection for the entire Eurozone is actually SMALLER than the single backstop protection loan the US created for Citibank

Hey, thanks for filling us Europeans full of confidence Rockpuck...

Man, that's worrying. 2010 could turn into a bad bad year. Gerald Celente may be right on the money.

reply to post by Rockpuck


And like Greece, the markets need confidence that this package will be enough to carry the day.. Do the markets really beleive that? I think not..

the EU and Euro are not out of the speculators crosshairs as yet..

and I think they need to go that bit further if they want to reassure the markets, yet neither France or Germany have the legs to go that far without crippling their own nations.

Originally posted by Dr Conspire
What is sickening is that anyone believes there is an England anymore , it has been sold ,and sold till even the buyers have stopped sneering.
Wake up England was sold out by .....well it can never be revealed safely.
England is a land sold by traitors England is DEAD>

What do you mean? Name the human fungus, go on...

reply to post by thoughtsfull

And like Greece, the markets need confidence that this package will be enough to carry the day.. Do the markets really beleive that? I think not..

Most commercial bankers don't care about long term prospective.. basically all they care about is, in the short term is the World going to cover Greece's exposed ass from taking a brutal spanking. The IMF, America, Europe said.. after long deliberation and still no final number.. that they will, in some way or another, protect Greece.

I think... where it will get truly ugly.. is not so much when countries will "run out of money" .. because fiscal suppliers NEVER run out of money.. it's only ..... how do I put this? .. It's only when the people run out of patience. When Germans begin cutting back THEIR social programs and benefits, not because they did something wrong but because some distant neighbor did.. well people won't take that very lightly. The first bailout will be seen as a evil necessity.. they understand, if Greece goes we all go. But at some point, on the second, third, fourth bailout .. you could really start to see social conflicts arising. THAT is when investors will pull the plug. You can bribe a politician with a fancy meal and a luxury holiday .. you can't bribe the hordes of angry, poor, desperate citizens.

The US and EUR plan of the day thus far is to .. in some perverse way that I have not entirely figured out yet, monetize each-others debts.. Still for the European economies, as long as you put your faith in multinationals, globalist, or as on ATS we call them "NWO" types.. you're doomed to misery.

Hell hasn't any of you EU members even questioned HOW they are doing this bailout in the first place? It's against the.. original EU constitution to bailout another country?

Article 122 of the Lisbon Treaty:
1. Without prejudice to any other procedures provided for in the Treaties, the Council, on a proposal from the Commission, may decide, in a spirit of solidarity between Member States, upon the measures appropriate to the economic situation, in particular if severe difficulties arise in the supply of certain products, notably in the area of energy.

2. Where a Member State is in difficulties or is seriously threatened with severe difficulties caused by natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control, the Council, on a proposal from the Commission, may grant, under certain conditions, Union financial assistance to the Member State concerned. The President of the Council shall inform the European Parliament of the decision taken.


...It's almost as though they... expected this to arise. I'm still quite sad you guys gave in to their treats and ratified this new constitution. I mean treaty.

reply to post by nenothtu


OK I'll take German lager over British ale!
HEY! I have to be real here!