It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why the HELL are you NOT a Libertarian?

page: 8
19
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 13 2010 @ 04:44 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


I guess you didn't bother to read anything about John Locke, or attempt to learn the true principles the U.S. was founded upon. Our founding fathers recognized the important role of government. The information is there if you want to know the truth.

Eliminating government was Marx's idea.

Anarchy was the road Marx believed we should take to communism. You propose heading down the same road. I would think that you would give this revelation some thought.

Read more on the subject, I can't spoon feed you all the answers. You have to do your own research.

I did my research, and the whole libertarian free market concept is repackaged communism. You have been sold a bill of goods.




posted on May, 13 2010 @ 04:52 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 


Where am I calling for elimination of government?

Please, post a comment of mine that calls for elimination. ONE!

I and others are calling for the government to get the hell out of our lives. Period. Protect my rights! Period.

I do not want them in every frelling thing I do.

When a government invades and removes the rights of it's people, it no longer exists within the LAW!

Hear that? The LAW.

I know you have a hard time understanding the LAW.

But maybe you should learn something about the LAW.

Constitutional Government. THAT IS IT! Get it? Good.

Nuff said.

[edit on 5/13/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 04:55 PM
link   
By the way, look at the date when this article on Marx and Libertarian thought was written, 1973, by a clearly leftist website.

Hard to believe that people are now preaching this stuff as true capitalism with a free market.

Man, I wish people would wake up to the reality.

You know I am not trying to steer you wrong. My record of my positions is well recorded.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 04:55 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


The reason I'm not a libertarian is simple, I don't believe in political labels. I have a great many opinions on a great many subjects that don't conform to any political platform.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 05:00 PM
link   
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Well, there are a couple minor things that I do not agree with. I feel a strong border and lawful emigration varies with the standard Libertarian ideals.

I believe in free markets, as long as it is on a per country agreement. Where complete free trade or equivalent tariffs to level the field.

Those are about the only problems that I have discovered on this thread, that I differ from the standard components.

No single ideology would cover everyone I guess.

Thanks for the comment.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 05:14 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


Just a few pages back you were all having your exchanges about anarchy.

Who is it that is putting government in control of our lives?

Which admin created the war on drugs? Which admins created the huge debts? Which admins created the huge military police state? If you look at the realities, it is the same people promoting the free market.

I know it is hard to believe, but do the research, the whole free market concept is re-marketed communism.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 05:50 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 


Oh stop your democrat pandering.

Comparing True Anarchists or Libertarians with Marxism is frelling ridiculous.

Also your pandering that the Repubs are the only problem in the US government is another frelling LIE.

Why don't you tell me Bush was a conservative now. Why don't you attempt, AGAIN, that conservative means to foment the status quo.

Frelling enough of your lies and deceit.

Why don't you come out and say the Tea Partier's are Marxists also. That would be SOP I guess.

Ba bye.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 06:40 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 





I know it is hard to believe, but do the research, the whole free market concept is re-marketed communism.


The free market concept is predicated on the ownership of private property and in no way can communism or even socialism be confused with ownership of private property. While there is a Wikipedia article that begins by claiming that the history of communism extends as far back as the paleolithic period, that article is horribly written with glaring misspells in the very first paragraph:




The history of the political ideology of communism hipothetically stretches all the way from the Palaeolithic up until the present day. However, most modern forms of communism are based upon Marxism, a variant of the ideology formed by the sociologist Karl Marx in the 1840s. Various historical movements and societies that have stressed egalitarianism and common ownership of goods have been described as communist, including hunter-gatherer societies and early Christianity. Marxism subsequently gained support across much of Europe, and under the control of the Bolshevik Party, a communist government seized power during the Russian revolution, leading to the creation of the Soviet Union, the world’s first Marxist state, in the early 20th century.


Whether it be the poorly written article in Wikepedia, or the far better written articles of eSsortment.com, the extensive history of communism offered by econfaculty, or historyworld.net, buzzle.com, howstuffworks.com, (which ironically imposed an advertisement for Penzoil, while I accessed that site), all are in agreement that communism is the prohibition of ownership of private property, in favor of a more "egalitarian" sort of system.

Further, Karl Marx is largely credited with the development of modern day communism and its understanding of the concept. You have referenced Marx in this thread yourself, and while Marx was no doubt influenced by the anti-age of reason so called intellectual Immanuel Kant, Marx was also very much influenced by the works of Adam Smith, who had taken free market principles and distilled them into his own version, from his magnum opus, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, so your claim that the free market concept is a repackaging of communism is outrageously contradictory to the chronology of history, and indeed, to free market principles itself.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 09:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Do you not believe in the stone age? Are you a creationist? I don't understand the issue here.

If you have any faith in modern anthropology, you would know humans spread all over the planet before Sumeria existed. Sumeria is considered the point when humans built city states. Before that humans lived in agrarian communities for thousands of years. Before that humans lived in hunter gatherer communities for thousands of years.

Humans crossed the Bering strait into North America during the Ice Age. They spread all over Europe during the Ice Age. That was thousands of years before Ireland was settled. Ireland would have been settled during the Ice Age as well if it wasn't under 300 meters of glacier ice.

idk wat i believe exactly. I'm somewhat open to some of evolution, but then again i have other ideals and beliefs that make evolution seem as valid as pigs flying. So idk, but i'm open for discussion. ANyways, wat makes you think Celts go so far back? If there were Celts back when, they wouldn't be the same Celts (religious wise) that we know today.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 09:33 PM
link   
Because you guys are like a generic version of republican/democrat...



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 09:40 PM
link   
reply to post by NWOWILLFALL
 


Generic!

Dude, you get the best of both worlds. Freedom in the social and freedom of the economic.

Yes, you have to provide your own safety net if we ever got our way, but no individual taxes. Government scaled back. Military defending our country, not the entire world. Fiscal conservatism. Elimination of that evil banking cartel.

Oh, but we can dream about the days of old where Libertarians created a great nation and then the corporatists and socialists destroyed it, all so they could enslave humanity.

Oh well.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 09:50 PM
link   
I am a Libertarian because I believe in a federal and state government that is limited in scope and power to the things that people cannot and should not do for themselves. Building bridges, the military, sewer, providing police protection and so forth. I believe in a democratic government, but more limited than it is now. I fear that average citizens now look to the government to solve all that ails them, and the politicians are more than ready to act with more laws, more taxes, and more government. As I always say, government does not expand in a vacuum, but instead at the expense of the liberty of the individual. They both have their place. But the scope of the government, most particularly the federal government, must be reduced in size. That is why I am a Libertarian. Republicans sometimes talk this way, but really don't follow through in any meaningful way. Most Democrats favor a large government. I respect those philosophies, but do not support them with my vote and certainly not with voluntary contributions.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 09:54 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 
I understand but the way we view things has been greatly altered...They all work for the same evil people and until we get these people out sadly we will never be truly free...



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 10:06 PM
link   
reply to post by NWOWILLFALL
 





I understand but the way we view things has been greatly altered...They all work for the same evil people and until we get these people out sadly we will never be truly free...


Your freedom is not predicated on who holds office. Your freedom, my freedom and anyone else, that freedom is not granted us, and anyone waiting around to have freedom granted them will never be free. Truly, I say to you, if you believe that your freedom is granted you by politicians, you have empowered those politicians beyond the power they can humanly contain, and this only leads to corruption.

If you want to be free, then be free! If you haven't figured out by now that there are people who will attempt to reign in your freedoms, you likely will never figure this out, but I suspect you have figured it out. Be free! Do what you must to keep you freedom, and Have all you need to enjoy that freedom. Do not ask for permission to be free, for surely the answer will be no. Ask yourself if you are free, and if that answer is no, then you are not free, if that answer is yes, then you are free, regardless of the tyrants who would try to convince you otherwise.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 10:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 
Good post...Great post and I know where your coming from and I would have the same mind set if they weren't planning an attack on there own citizens...You may not believe that, believe what you will but when they have technology that has been hidden from us until the time they feel like smiting us like ants then I can't say that they don't have "power" because sadly they do, It would be nice if people would stand up but you know that new episode of greys anatomy is gonna be on...



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 10:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You really need to stop letting people do your thinking for you. Read the real thing yourself.

www.marxists.org...

Those links you provided where filled with inaccuracies and pre-coinceived notions it is pathetic.

In a fiat money system, who really owns anything? People have interests in corporations, they don't really own them. You have a mortgage on your home. Who really owns it.

There are idealistic theories, and then there is what happens in the real world. The free market concept is nothing but a con, that pretends it is one thing, when in fact it is another.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 10:22 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


So rather than doing your own research, and learning how to open your eyes, and see the lies that you have lived, you are going to choose the blue pill.

Why do you bother coming here?

If you aren't going to look at what is so obvious in front of your eyes, why bother.



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 10:22 PM
link   
reply to post by NWOWILLFALL
 


I've never seen Grey's Anatomy, and have no interest in it. I understand there is much apathy and ignorance in the world and in this nation. As the joke goes:

"When asked if the biggest problem in the nation today is ignorance or apathy; 50% said they did not know and the other 50% said they did not care."

This is only a joke and does not truly reflect what has been happening post 9/11. More and more people are waking up to the tyranny around them, and are, in spite of their own problems, doing what they can to overcome this tyranny. As I said, tyrants will do all they can to reign in your freedom. Do not worry about who is not standing up to them, only worry about you standing up to them. Lead by example, and know that castigating followers only alienates them. Besides, who needs followers when it comes to freedom? Learn to lead the leaders, and this will gain you much in your effort to be free.

As to treating us like ants, I would point you to the
I understand but the way we view things has been greatly altered...They all work for the same evil people and until we get these people out sadly we will never be truly free... Your freedom is not predicated on who holds office. Your freedom, my freedom and anyone else, that freedom is not granted us, and anyone waiting around to have freedom granted them will never be free. Truly, I say to you, if you believe that your freedom is granted you by politicians, you have empowered those politicians beyond the power they can humanly contain, and this only leads to corruption. If you want to be free, then be free! If you haven't figured out by now that there are people who will attempt to reign in your freedoms, you likely will never figure this out, but I suspect you have figured it out. Be free! Do what you must to keep you freedom, and Have all you need to enjoy that freedom. Do not ask for permission to be free, for surely the answer will be no. Ask yourself if you are free, and if that answer is no, then you are not free, if that answer is yes, then you are free, regardless of the tyrants who would try to convince you otherwise." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Argintine super ant
, or super colony. No one has been able to eradicate those ants. No one!



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 10:28 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 





You really need to stop letting people do your thinking for you. Read the real thing yourself.


And then you supply a link to www.marxist.org. Wow! Ring ring. Ring ring. Ring ring. Hello? Hello, Kettle? This is Pot, you're black! (click Beeeeeeep)

If you are going to provide a marxist link and insist that you are doing your thinking for yourself, there is little I can say to you that will matter, as others have all ready made up your mind for you and I have no interest in making up your mind. I supplied those links to respond to your assertions that research should be done. It was done, and look how you responded. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously if you are going to dismiss all the data except for that which you approve of, which comes down to one single marxist link?



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 10:31 PM
link   
reply to post by endisnighe
 


The founders of the U.s. constitution were not libertarians. Libertarians are communists.

The U.S. was founded as a republic, on the philosophies of John Locke that believed that government has an important role in protecting the rights of the individual. The U. S. Constitution was written by people who believed that we needed a strong federal government.

Stop listening to what people tell you, and start doing your own research.



new topics

top topics



 
19
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join