Why the HELL are you NOT a Libertarian?

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posted on May, 18 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





So you really buy all this hippie commune street vendor nonsense that Zodeux is selling? Do you really see street vending as the ultimate form of capitalism? If all businesses were street vendors, then who would pay the taxes needed to build the streets? You still don't see the clear Marxist ideology behind Zodeaux's vision of the free market?


I am not selling street vendors as the ultimate form of capitalism and you know it. You also know why I brought up street vendors, and it was in response to you claiming the black market was all about illicit drugs and crap like that. I brought up the black market because you kept insisting there is no free market. If you have to lie in order to sell your ideology, what makes you so sure your ideology is worth selling?




posted on May, 18 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Most of the people who make up western societies do in fact believe in compassion, and helping others in need of help.

Yes, Jesus Christ did ask society, people, to do many things, although it seems to me that your mention of him has mainly do with your own christ complex. If you knew anything about Christ, you would know that he wasn't into prejudging others, as you do here in this post several times.

Most Libertarians I have known love corporations, and corporations certainly love the free market. The free market concept has enabled corporations to confiscate vast amounts of the middle class and average working people's wealth.

No doubt you consider yourself the anointed one, and will declare that those who support corporations can not be libertarians.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Most of the black market is controlled by gangs, cartels, and the mafia, and is even more heavily controlled than than legal markets. The only market you can claim that is not so heavily controlled by the underworld is the street vendors, who make so little money, nobody cares.

I'm not selling any ideology, I am just pointing out that the free market is nothing but a scam, and does not exist.

You are the one trying to sell this whole nuvo communism.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





Yes, Jesus Christ did ask society, people, to do many things, although it seems to me that your mention of him has mainly do with your own christ complex. If you knew anything about Christ, you would know that he wasn't into prejudging others, as you do here in this post several times.


And of course, the irony of this remark is lost on you.




Most Libertarians I have known love corporations, and corporations certainly love the free market. The free market concept has enabled corporations to confiscate vast amounts of the middle class and average working people's wealth.


At this point there is no reason at all to believe you. One only needs to look at the Libertarian Party's Platform to understand you are once again probably lying, and in all likelihood you don't even know any Libertarians, but what do you want to bet you'll just dismiss the links I just provided, and insist your www.marxist.org site is the only source to be trusted on what a Libertarian believes.




No doubt you consider yourself the anointed one, and will declare that those who support corporations can not be libertarians.


I wouldn't even be remotely interested in claiming the title you seem to think belongs to you, and you can have it, as Messiah's generally tend to be crucified, and I just want to be left the hell alone to live my life as I see fit.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





Most of the black market is controlled by gangs, cartels, and the mafia, and is even more heavily controlled than than legal markets. The only market you can claim that is not so heavily controlled by the underworld is the street vendors, who make so little money, nobody cares.


I watched a man who was once homeless, push a shopping cart up and down 5th Street, with a coffee urn selling coffee. He became affectionately know as 5th Street Dick, and after a few years he not only made enough money to rise out of homelessness, he made enough to open his own coffeehouse called...that's right 5th Street Dicks, but way to show us your real compassion, Poet.




I'm not selling any ideology, I am just pointing out that the free market is nothing but a scam, and does not exist.


And no one would expect less from a modern day Messiah such as yourself.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Damn it, I had a beautiful breakdown of the problem and the server reset and all was lost. I will try again.

In the beginning, there was man and state. The state was controlled by man not the other way around. The state wanted more. The government and devious men joined together and came up with a plan.

To increase power and to increase the society an idea came to fruition. To remove business liability and to keep a business going after the death of an owner they came up with the idea of corporations.

They legislated them into existence. By the state giving corporations the charter for their existence, the state was allowed to regulate and legislate the rules that corporations had to follow. This allowed the state to tax the corporations as much as they wanted. The corporations thrived with the state's blessing. As did the state that received the benefit of the taxation placed upon them.

Here comes the evil part.

The state still did not have the power over entities like sole proprietors that were not corporations. They passed legislation that disallowed humans from being non corporations when in regards to business. They used licensing schemes and the like to make them become corporations so they too could be controlled and taxed. They then saw that humans still were not able to be controlled and taxed so they said HEY, why not make people corporations also.

Here is the TRUTH of the matter. It is not the corporations fault. It is NOT the humans fault. It is the fault of the state. PERIOD.

When doing business as an individual, you are held to the same tenet of doing no harm.

When doing business as a corporation, you are not held to human laws but of corporate laws.

When you realize that your state has taken your VERY humanity away from you, HOW THE HELL do you blame anyone but the STATE!



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


It is not the state, it is the people who have used their wealth, mainly through corporations, to control the state to have have average people stripped of their rights. They have done this primarily through lobbyists and the free market con job.

The answer is to take back control of the state. Remember what the purpose of government is supposed to be, and move to gain control of government and return it to its original purpose.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


And once again you prove yourself to be clueless, from your own link to the Libertarian platform.

www.lp.org...


2.6 Monopolies and Corporations

We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association.


Your claim that Libertarians do not support corporate charters is pure nonsense.

Oh, and quit trying to steal my lines. It makes you look bad.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


And what is the purpose of the state?

To control the people? To provide for them? Now, if you can provide for the people by NOT taxing them, fine. Tax the corporations and NOT the individual.

If I wanted to open a business as a sole proprietor. Do I get taxed like a corporation? WELL?

If acting as a sole proprietor, do I have to try and compete by facing all the regulations of the corporations? WELL?

If acting as a sole proprietor, do I have to pay taxes on my frelling labor? WELL?



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


And the lies just keep coming from you. Here is 2.6 as written in its entirety:


2.6 Monopolies and Corporations

We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals. We oppose government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest. Industries should be governed by free markets.


So, when you say:




Your claim that Libertarians do not support corporate charters is pure nonsense.


You had to necessarily omit the majority of 2.6 in order to make your statement appear as if it were true. To divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals means to do away with state granted charters in terms of corporations. A Libertarian, being one who believes in the Liberty of all, is not interested in telling another person how they should run their business, but they are by no stretch of the imagination in support of state granted charters. Of course, you know this, and that is why you purposely omitted the majority of 2.6



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


The purpose of the state is to defend the liberties of the individual.

Once again, read what John Locke wrote.

If you start your own business, you still have to follow all the laws like everyone else. If you do not incorporate, then setting up your own business is much less complicated.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


I noticed you sidestepped my questions.

You going to tax my labor? Well?

Keep lying and sidestepping and obfuscating. 5 pages now of your deflection and rhetoric.

Going to accuse the Independant party next of being Maoist.

I give up.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


No it doesn't, as per your usual nonsense, you don't understand what you are reading.

Private entities do not write the laws, thank God, and therefore it is a legitimate function of the state to recognize a corporate charter, so that it can exist as a legal entity.

I was hoping you would bring the rest up, as I have more to say about that, but too busy right now.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





Private entities do not write the laws, thank God, and therefore it is a legitimate function of the state to recognize a corporate charter, so that it can exist as a legal entity.


And it is you and your ilk who are in support of corporatism not Libertarians, and you continue to prove it time and time again. You desperately lie as often as you can in a lame attempt to make it appear as if Libertarians are just like you, but where Libertarians actually do believe in individual rights, you merely pay lip service to it while vehemently defending the tyranny of the state.




I was hoping you would bring the rest up, as I have more to say about that, but too busy right now.


Yes, of course you were, that is why you omitted it, it was a clever ruse to get me to bring it in so you could then address, and of course, you don't have the time to do so now because it will take you time to try and figure out a way to wiggle out of the trap you set for yourself. Just let go of the banana, Poet!



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Dream on.

I have a long history of post here on the site speaking out against the evils of corporations.

A is a big swing and a wiff for you. No, I just have a life.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





I have a long history of post here on the site speaking out against the evils of corporations.


Uh-huh. Then I suppose I should re post this assertion you made:




Private entities do not write the laws, thank God, and therefore it is a legitimate function of the state to recognize a corporate charter, so that it can exist as a legal entity.


The very same corporations you claim to have a long history of speaking out against are chartered by government. You're a poser, Poet, and it is plain to see.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 




What kind of nonsense is that?

My stating the fact that corporate charters must be identified by the state as a fact does not prove that I support corporations.

What this statement proves is that your claims that libertarians do not support corporations is pure nonsense, as their own website clearly states that they do support corporations.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


So big guy, what is YOUR solution to the corporations?

Have the government take them over? What is that called? Is that called Communism? Fascism? Socialism?

I have a solution, like I stated earlier. Let government regulate corporations and leave sole proprietorships alone. Treat them as individuals, which they are.

Tax and regulate the corporations all they want. BUT, do not even try to bail them out. Including the banks. Hell, what do we need banks for? Oh, that is right, to steal our money to finance the government.

Hmmmmm, sounds like a plan.

Do no harm, do not infringe on other's Rights to Life, Liberty or Property.

Too easy? Or is that too free?



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 




What kind of nonsense is that?

My stating the fact that corporate charters must be identified by the state as a fact does not prove that I support corporations.

What this statement proves is that your claims that libertarians do not support corporations is pure nonsense, as their own website clearly states that they do support corporations.


You have not proved that Libertarians support state granted charters, and you first lied through omission and are now lying as you claimed you would address that which you omitted. You are supporting state granted charters, in fact you are insisting this is the way a corporation can exist. Without such license, a corporation is just a business, and would have no "legal" separation of liability, Poet. Your willingness to lie as you are shows you indeed have something to sell.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


Sorry, I thought I had already agreed with you on these ideas.

That, and reinstating a life span for a corporate entity.

It won't be easy, and our freedoms will still not be what they should, but it would be a start to push for.





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