It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Cop-watchers look for racial profiling on the streets of Phoenix

page: 1
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 07:49 PM
link   

Cop-watchers look for racial profiling on the streets of Phoenix


www.cnn.com

Phoenix, Arizona (CNN) -- Margarito Blanco trains his camcorder on the officer approaching a Chevy pickup, while his friend Andrew Sanchez furiously scribbles notes on a pad.

They are not working for the police. They're watching them.

It's about 8:10 p.m. on a recent Thursday and the turquoise S-10 is pulled over at a Circle K gas station in Phoenix.
(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Arizona immigration law could drive Latinos out of state
Arizona immigration bill signed into law
The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?
Man pulls cop over for speeding!! ( Warning- Language )!!!




posted on May, 11 2010 @ 07:49 PM
link   
First of all, as much of a person I am who praises law enforcement and hates on police-haters, I got no problem with what these gentlemen are doing provided they do what they are doing the right way and are operating within the confines of the law. However I think these guys are kinda stupid for letting their cop-watching-project get coverage on CNN. I feel that they're drawing undesired attention to themselves by doing so.

Again I don't have a problem with it. But another thing I find funny is how they keep calling all this 'racial-profiling'. They should call it 'ethnic-profiling' because being Hispanic/Latino/Mexican, etc is NOT a race. It's an ethnicity. Yet people keep making the mistake of calling it a race.

It'd be like me saying Taco Bell is authentic Mexican Food...

(I wanna say more stuff here. But I'm in a hurry to go somewhere. I'll come back later and add more of my own commentary once people start giving their own input... Cya'll.)

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 07:54 PM
link   
I see no problem with people watching the police as long as they do not impede an investigation or arrest. I do worry that some may overreact however. If every traffic citation is being filmed and labeled as racial profiling it is going to eat up a TON of resources. As long as the guys doing the cop chasing read up on SOP and the laws, I think this may be a good idea.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:07 PM
link   
Problem is that officers know exactly how to maneuver to elicit the response they require from folks to gain the desired outcome. So if these guys are policing the police, and are found out as to what they are doing, the officer will push them until they do something that the officer can arrest them for. On the other hand, these guys may be similarly pushing the cops to elicit a response as an excuse to end the new law. Something like this only works well with oversight.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:13 PM
link   
reply to post by defcon5
 


Good points and I have to agree. Not too hard for a LE officer to follow a car until it makes a mistake.

It sucks how there are never enough people to oversee the overseers.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:28 PM
link   
What if it's an officer of Hispanic heritage? Is that still racial profiling?

And, out of curiousity, what "race" are Mexicans, other Latin Americans and run-of-the-mill white people?

Just wondering....


If law enforcement issued a BOLO for a "caucasian male, 5'8" to 6' tall, average build, brown hair, hazel eyes, no obvious tattoos or other markings", would stopping a person of "Hispanic" origin with light skin pigmentation be racial profiling?

[edit on 5/11/2010 by abecedarian]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by abecedarian

If law enforcement issued a BOLO for a "caucasian male, 5'8" to 6' tall, average build, brown hair, hazel eyes, no obvious tattoos or other markings", would stopping a person of "Hispanic" origin with light skin pigmentation be racial profiling?

[edit on 5/11/2010 by abecedarian]


Darn good point. I didn't really think of that, per se.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:49 PM
link   
I have no real issue with people watching us EXCEPT for the people who usually do the most watching DON'T HAVE A CLUE what is going on and instead of getting FACTS, they assume and simply spew biased BS to fit their agenda.

Case in point. We have a few down here around Atlanta who follow us all over and record, and also record all the traffic stops they are involved in. Again, not an issue.....UNTIL we have a BOLO come out about an aggravated rapist who we have VIDEO of and he is as follows:

6'1 / 200lbs / Black Male / with a CFL (crips for life) tattoo on his right bicep / and was last seen in west Atlanta headed towards Marietta.

Well we stopped about 30 guys fitting that description within an hour of this call coming out...and the idiots who found this out sued our department for racial profiling....stating that we were ONLY STOPPING BLACK MEN.....again there are some geniuses among us, but know whats going on before claiming something.

As I said, I personally have no problem with people watching me do my job...JUST UNDERSTAND MY JOB and WHATS ACTUALLY HAPPENING before you go off on some dumba@@ tangent.

[edit on 5/11/2010 by rcwj1975]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by Marked One

Originally posted by abecedarian

If law enforcement issued a BOLO for a "caucasian male, 5'8" to 6' tall, average build, brown hair, hazel eyes, no obvious tattoos or other markings", would stopping a person of "Hispanic" origin with light skin pigmentation be racial profiling?

[edit on 5/11/2010 by abecedarian]


Darn good point. I didn't really think of that, per se.


I must admit that I, of mixed Irish, German and Native American heritage look pretty darn European if I haven't been in the sun for a while, right down to blindingly white skin... but a week or two in the sun and I'm as dark, if not darker than a lot of the Mexican people I know. I have brown hair, black eyebrows and moustache, and hazel-green eyes. And a few times when I've opened my mouth, I've been mistaken for Mexican, as I can speak the language, somewhat. But my father was a red-haired, blue-eyed Irishman (from Oklahoma) and my mother brought the German, and Native American genes.

So, my only proof that I am "legal" are my driver's license, birth certificate and SS# (which has been stolen and used elsewhere BTW); skin color has little bearing nor influence on my status, as it won't on most others.

I'm fully prepared to prove who I am so why the fuss over others proving who they are?



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by rcwj1975
I have no real issue with people watching us EXCEPT for the people who usually do the most watching DON'T HAVE A CLUE what is going on and instead of getting FACTS, they assume and simply spew biased BS to fit their agenda.

[edit on 5/11/2010 by rcwj1975]


That's another thing I have an issue with.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:37 PM
link   
Expect to see a flood of "conviently edited" videos entitled "RACIST AZ COPS RACIALLY PROFILING MEXICAN DRIVERS OMG!!!!" Mark my words. I have no problem with them observing and/or taping, however let's be realistic that is not all they are doing. They are gathering footage which will later be edited and shown on a sympathetic outlet to "prove" that all the Arizona cops are discriminating against mexicans. If what they were doing was so benign, why did they just now start doing this when rumors of racism have floated around about cops on the border states for decades?Not fooling anyone.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by djvexd]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by rcwj1975
I have no real issue with people watching us EXCEPT for the people who usually do the most watching DON'T HAVE A CLUE what is going on and instead of getting FACTS, they assume and simply spew biased BS to fit their agenda.

Case in point. We have a few down here around Atlanta who follow us all over and record, and also record all the traffic stops they are involved in. Again, not an issue.....UNTIL we have a BOLO come out about an aggravated rapist who we have VIDEO of and he is as follows:

6'1 / 200lbs / Black Male / with a CFL (crips for life) tattoo on his right bicep / and was last seen in west Atlanta headed towards Marietta.

Well we stopped about 30 guys fitting that description within an hour of this call coming out...and the idiots who found this out sued our department for racial profiling....stating that we were ONLY STOPPING BLACK MEN.....again there are some geniuses among us, but know whats going on before claiming something.

As I said, I personally have no problem with people watching me do my job...JUST UNDERSTAND MY JOB and WHATS ACTUALLY HAPPENING before you go off on some dumba@@ tangent.

[edit on 5/11/2010 by rcwj1975]



I do not see where you tie in a problem with being video'ed with the facts you relate. Who sued for profiling? Was it a videographer or one of the thirty ( 30) innocent men you guys threw on the street, searched, questioned, shirtsleeves pulled up to see if THAT black man was the one you were looking for...or was it number 26?...or maybe human being #9.

Did the videographer do something that you see as illegal? If not illegal but just aggravating, why? You left too many details outm but the main issue is this:

Of COURSE you would be looking for a black man under those circumstancesm since that is an integral part of the description. But as to how many men were tossed, that seems an outrage. As soon as the BOLO went out any black man unfortunate enough to be 6 ft tall and 200 lbs. was jumped and had to show any tattoos, meaning that the cops searched 30 times without cause. just being black does not give reasonable grounds to believe that that EXACT person was likley involved. it was a fishing trip, with the ones found lacking thrown back.

A Terry search requires at least some justification, unless there were exact clothing matches or furtive movements similarity is not enough alone to warrant more than a pat down, if that. To roll up sleeves to inspect biceps is a search for evidence ( of identity ) and beyond the scope of Terry.

So thirty innocent black men went home that day to tell their families about how the cops accused and searched him, finally cutting him loose without so much as a ' sorry pal'...too brazen to apologize..30 more men who will see the cops as enemies and also":


How man men fitting that tattoo description could posibly be in a limited area? The cops have photo's of the perp from a video and they still have to detain and harrass 30 innocent men? I am willing to bet you that not ONE other of those men had that same tattoo in that spot. No way. Anytime a crime happens they can just line all the black folks up ( or white, you know they are equal opportunity arresters,right?) and funnel them thru a set of barricades and at the end of each line a cop could have the citizen step up and bare whatever area of their bodies that they deemed necessary to their investigation.

Just think how handy that would be !!! Heck, how could they complain? Having to submit to a detailed body and tattoo inspection would only take a minute..and just think of how many people they could clear in a day of any involvement?! That is the kind of world cops would love, but for those of us who value liberty, it is a sickening thought. Cops would have ALL of us detained, submitting to any questioning without complaint or refusal, searched at any time by any cop and for any or NO reason...at the whim of anyone with a badge.

What you no doubt see as a net that sweeps up the trash, with some slipping away...those affected see as a bludgeon smashing their rights into dust as they lay prostrate on the pavement while you look for that tattoo and scream at him that he is the guilty one and to confess...they see the net you cast as the kind a hunter uses to snare prey for the kill..and he resents you deeply for GUESSING that he MIGHT be the guy you wanted....30 guys before the right one...If you ever got him at all..what a record of efficiency and protecting our rights...NOT.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 11:38 PM
link   
reply to post by richierich
 


Well richie the suit came from ONE of the men who happened to know the camera guys who like to film us doing our job, and who OF COURSE, was related to an NAACP member. See THEY made it racial, while ALL the other men had ZERO issue with us taking less then ONE MINUTE to ID them and check for a tattoo. ALL those OTHER men did what EVERY man should do...they considered the victim in a tragic case and said hey...if this helps weed us out and help you find the real rapist...go for it...and YES we did find him and he was convicted.

My point is in the eyes of an idiot we were racially profiling....in the eyes of ANYONE with common sence we were looking for someone and something specific because we had the evidence and REASON to do so.

We had ARS to stop every one of them in that area...and ARS has been upheld in SCOTUS many many years now. Every one of them was asked to consent to a look at their bicep, unless they didn't have sleeves, and ALL complied....thankfully...its just that one decided he would sue for easy cash (finding out later he was swayed by the NAACP and the camera guys). His case was thrown out as ALL procedure and civil rights were upheld. As I said, luckily for that girl (17 at the time, needed stitches in places I can't say, counseling, and aid to help with the BURN MARKS on her body from this scumbag) these men we stopped saw the BIG PICTURE and were willing to help us. Unlike you they decided the future of a teenage girl meant more then them being stopped by pigs who should all die and serve no purpose and be denied the help we needed to get justice.


By the way, he is now spending 75 years in prison...which when he got his sentence means he will be 111 when he is released, and I'll be the first to say those first group of men did more for that case then they will ever know.....



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 11:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by djvexd
Expect to see a flood of "conviently edited" videos entitled "RACIST AZ COPS RACIALLY PROFILING MEXICAN DRIVERS OMG!!!!" Mark my words. I have no problem with them observing and/or taping, however let's be realistic that is not all they are doing. They are gathering footage which will later be edited and shown on a sympathetic outlet to "prove" that all the Arizona cops are discriminating against mexicans. If what they were doing was so benign, why did they just now start doing this when rumors of racism have floated around about cops on the border states for decades?Not fooling anyone.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by djvexd]


That's another thing I was thinking of.

And I've had people try to film us at work. We took their camera from them, handcuffed them, called police. Police got rid of them and their camera. And that was it.

[edit on 5/11/10 by Marked One]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 01:50 PM
link   
reply to post by Marked One
 

BULL!!!!This is not there job there looking for a reason!!
I live in Arizona and I wish that antone "NOT" living in AZ hush!!We have a serious problem here and a majority of the peeps are not racist!! they just want the government to take action!!



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:30 PM
link   
reply to post by rcwj1975
 


Glad to hear the perp was caught and got big time. But you now say that ' real men' will expose any parts of their bodies that a cop says is of interest, right? You equate being a ' real man' whatever that means to you, with UNQUESTIONED obedience to an UNWARRANTED search.

While you may stretch the meaning of resonable grounds, surely even YOu admit that you HAD to have consent to move or remove clothing to ' inspect' the cattle...er, people. NO DOUBT the people gave consent: Surrounded by six cops and a snarling dog, with them demanding that you comply, no doubt they all did. Scared to death.

If a cop ever tried to get me or mine to prove our innocence, instead of having a cop prove our guilt, he would get a laugh in his face. NO WAY would I ever submit to any unwarranted examination by cops. I have ZERO trust for cops and know that even the innocent can get caught up and charged wrongly, and all because they were ' real men' and gave in to the cops and gave consent.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER. give consent to a warrantless search, NO MATTER WHAT!! Ask ANY lawyer is I am wrong....the only people who would advise different is a COP..and their advice will get you screwed every time.

And if the men had NOT rolled up their sleeves, what would you have done? Let him walk away? Hell no, you would have grabbed him and rolled his sleeve up whether or not he liked it, or consented...and you know you would...and that means you and the rest of the cops are violators of rights...shame on you.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:42 PM
link   
Hello hello ! Did anyone see about this "Arizona bans ethnic studies"?I just saw it on the news.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by madhadder545
reply to post by Marked One
 

BULL!!!!This is not there job there looking for a reason!!
I live in Arizona and I wish that antone "NOT" living in AZ hush!!We have a serious problem here and a majority of the peeps are not racist!! they just want the government to take action!!



I agree with you. And they should do the same thing here in Texas. Again; what I can't get over is how they keep calling it "Racial-Profiling". Being Hispanic/Latino is NOT a race. It's an ethnicity.

And if these two cop-chasers want their project to be successful? They shouldn't have let themselves end up on CNN. Because I think they're going to end up getting their asses kicked by Cops.

Kinda like this dude.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:49 PM
link   
reply to post by Marked One
 


If they are profiling now, then it is not related to the law that was just passed here (if that is why they are doing this)...that does not go into effect for almost 90 days. So, if they are trying to prove that the new law will lead to racial profiling then they are wasting their time and will only prove that racial profiling already existed.

In turn, this will justify all of the people that believe the law will not lead to profiling, by way of it already happening



posted on May, 13 2010 @ 12:47 AM
link   

In turn, this will justify all of the people that believe the law will not lead to profiling, by way of it already happening



So... umm....
Let's just assume you are a member of the police force and pull a car over for excessive speed (and in Arizona that could mean in excess of 80 MPH) and ask politely, in English as any officer of the law should do, for driver's license, registration and proof of insurance... and the driver responds with "Que'?", "Como?" or "No hablo Ingles." Now what?

At this point we've reached one of those points within the issue: catering to people who do not "want" to become part of the culture of the United States of America and instead are more than happy remaining tied to where they come from because they have no incentive to become "American" since we provide applications for driver's licenses, and well most everything else for that matter, in many different languages while expecting law enforcement to be able to do their job in one language.

So as an officer of the peace, what would you do? Would your apprehensions be raised because the driver you just pulled over doesn't speak, or at least have a rudimentary understanding with relation to operating a motorized vehicle within the USA, of the English language?

[edit on 5/13/2010 by abecedarian]



new topics

top topics



 
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join