Do you think the UK should leave the EU?

reply to post by Ibex08


Yes I do, because the UK is a few little islands - there is a reason for that I think.

Just as here in NZ we are a few little islands.


Why are we separated? Because we stand on our own.

Originally posted by Chris McGee
Another yes vote. Get us out and follow the Norwegian model.

Complete with tiny population and loads of the best type of resources like Norway has oil, gas, ore, wood??? The UK would have to rely on currency trading and wool if we left and don't be thinking the Commonwealth , white or otherwise, would help, they're playing their own geographic locality game now, all we are to the US is a strategic point on the globe, Airstrip One.

For me everything surrounds the lack of democracy that exists in the EU, the spider web of issues roll back to that one central issue.. Until that changes I am not for the EU..

AND.. it is not just me being a Little Englander.. look at the issues between the Flemish and Francophones in and around Brussels (Brussles is in Flemish territory)

And the closer we pushed into Union, the more we will end up looking like a Belgium made up of multiple states..

www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by andy1033
Like many of you know i cannot stand england, so i would say who cares what the uk government does. Also if uk did not want to be part of eu why did they get a high profile second place job for that english woman?

You rattle on about this all the time, so the simple question remains, if England is so bad why don't you just leave, nothing stopping you?

Either you haven't got the balls to do so or maybe. just maybe, deep down you know the grass just might not been greener the other side.

Andy you seem like an allright guy when you leave the anti-english bollocks alone, when you go on about it you just radge my tits off and I just want to tell you to pack your bags and beat it as you'd be no loss to this country, especially in the difficult days ahead.

Your choice mate.

I hope you cut all the nonsense out because like say, I think your ok, but at the end of the day it's up to you.

In 1973 Ted Heath and his Conservative governement took the UK into the European Economic Community, or EEC, also known as The Common Market.

Part of the Labour Party manifesto during the two General Elections of 1974 was the promise of a referendum of the UK's continued membership of the EEC.

Labour, who had concerns over certain policies within the EEC, the Common Agricultural Policy etc, won an overall majority in October 1974 and subsequently held a referendum in June 1975.

With a turnout of nearly 65% approximately 67% voted for continued membership.

It is necessary to look at the aims of the EEC to understand exactly what the British public voted for.

The EEC was a Free Trade Organisation aimed at developing;
1. Customs Union and common external tariff.
2. Common agriculture, trade and transport policies.
3. Enlargement of EEC throughout Europe.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 1986 The Single European Act was agreed.
This changed the very nature of the EEC.
It's aims were the establishment of The Single Market and European Political Cooperation, the start of the move towards full European Union and transferal of power from Westminster to Strasbourg and Brussels.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Maastricht Treaty followed in 1991 and with it came about The European Union with much broader powers.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

It was then followed by The Lisbon Treaty which gave even more power to the central European Union even allowing it to dictate national policy at en.wikipedia.org...

During all this there had been a growing movement for the introduction of a single European currency to help support and assist trade between member states.
This came into useage in 2002 has become more and more influential in world economics.
Only the UK and Denmark negotiated exemption from the Euro and still use their own currencies and Sweden opted out in 2003 as the result of a national referendum.
en.wikipedia.org...

Gradually since the UK's entry into the EEC the centralised European organisation has systematically tried to gain more and more control away from the soveriegn states and impose it's own rules, regualtions and now laws upon it's member states.
It has neither the mandate or the legal authority to do so in the UK.

First of all, let's have a look at the definition of the term 'Sovereignty'.
en.wikipedia.org...

' Sovereignty is the quality of having supreme, independent authority over a territory. It can be found in a power to rule and make law that rests on a political fact for which no purely legal explanation can be provided.'

By signing The Lisbon Treaty, (contrary to the policy as stated in the Labour Party Manifesto), Gordon Brown sacrificed Britain's right to veto in EU policy making in 40 areas.

If that is not a surrendering of Sovereignty then I don't know what is.

We are now in the position where the EU can overrule UK laws.

Back in 1975 the British people voted to enter a trade agreement, nothing more, nothing less.

Every single Prime Minister since, and possibly our monarch, has been guilty of gradually but continually surrendering sovereignty to a foreign power.
The EU is in the process of completely usurping our sovereignty and control over our own country with powers to dictate over every aspect of our every day lives.

I am not even going to go into the Fourth Reich / NWO theories and aspects of the EU.

I am not even going into how corrupt and overly beaurocratic an organisation it is.

The very fact that this has happened, quite openly, without the Britsh people having anysay in it is tantamount to Treason.

I personally wish to withdraw from the EU.
But it is the peoples right to self-determination that is at question.
If the majority wish to stay in the EU, so be it.
But we should demand the right to vote on it.

Cameron and Clegg both said it is time to listen to the people.
Let's force their hand and see how committed they are to this and demand our right to have OUR say on just who is to govern us!

reply to post by Freeborn




You know Andy can't leave....


He's being monitored constantly by the government and MI5 and so on.... they watch his every move and he can't even think without them listening in to his thoughts....

But any time you ask him about it, he just leaves the thread and then pops up in the next thread spouting the same rubbish.

He doesn't hate England because it's England, he hates it, because in his mind anyway, He's being surveilled and controlled both physically and mentally.

Or in other words.....

Na, you get the point.

I might be wrong but was the purpose of the EU in the first place only to create good, peaceful relations between a set of countries that have been going to war with eachother for centurys?
The EU started to fail when they decided that countries should give up their soverignty and obey the laws that so few impose.
Democracy is impossible if it is only a few thousand people making decisions that effect millions.
I would love it if we exited the EU.

Russia would love England to leave.

Well this makes me happy, but why on earth didnt more people vote UKIP in the general election, they want us out because they see what is going wrong with the EU!

Because in our "democratic" system you get 3.55 times more MP's if you vote Conservative or Labour (on average) than you do if you vote for any other party. A million voted for UKIP, there's 600 Westminster seats, and not one UKIP MP.

For Pete's Sake YES!!!!

The UK is still a great country to live in (right now). My cousin moved there 12 years ago to go to school, and never came back. He loves it. He's now a full citizen. I hope to whatever deity that you worship that the UK decides to pull out, it would be in their best economic interests to do so.




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

Edit:

Oops my bad.
Deleted all of post as completely irrelevant and offers nothing positive to thread whatsoever.


[edit on 23/5/10 by Freeborn]

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Actually Socialism, as written by Marx only works on a global basis hence the perpetual problems of the Soviet bloc and the need to export revolution. The British left was always against the EU and wrote about it at the height of the EU fervour.

Anyway It may cost us more to get out of the EU and retool the economy. We should remain part of the trading bloc. Britain gets a lot of funding from the EU.

I believe that the expansion of the EU to include economically weaker countries like Greece was the problem. Interestingly the Germans have been very Eurosceptical.

reply to post by Tiger5


The problem I, and the majority of people I know, dislike the EU has little to do with the Trade Agreememnts, allthough the UK has been screwed over on these in the past, but more to do with the illegal move towards political union and the loss of British sovereignty.

Unfortunately all the major political parties seem intent on ignoring the will of the people and denying us our right to self-determination in the form of a referendum.

reply to post by Freeborn



Well political sovereignity is important but some of the laws that came out of Europe are excellent - such as corporate manslaughter. Some of the duff ones were the Jaffa cake arguments which was stupid and costly.




[edit on 23-5-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by Tiger5

Well political sovereignity is important but some of the laws that came out of Europe are excellent - such as corporate manslaughter.

There have been a fair few changes-proposals I've agreed with the EU on too. After all there have been so many regulations to come out of the EU that I'm sure almost everyone (with any political view) can find something they'll agree with the EU about. Even if it really does, turn out, that: the popular EU moves recieve far more British, dictatorial, media attention than some of the others!!

My problem with the EU (even when its polycies happens to supports my own ideas) is it's rather like my own views gaining the personal endorsement of Adolf Hitler. It means NOTHING to me, because at the end of the day (at least, ever since they forced Ireland to have second referedum on the Lisbon Treaty) (whilst denying everybody else, espicially all those who voted against the EU Constitution one) I view Brussels as "lacking democracy" (to put it Very politely, and Very mildly!).

So dictators can agree with me (if they want). But I will always oppose them any place in Europe. And so I oppose the EU until (such day) it at least gains the majority support, of all the residents, being any of it's member states. Till that time I regard it as an "insult" to both democracy, freedom, and therefore all of 21st Century, civilisation!!!

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
It's the propaganda of the Global Socialists that persuaded so many to vote in favor of the EU

It was the Conservatives - hardly Global Socialists - who did most to take the UK into the EU.

Loook at all of the socialist "success stories" that Global Socialists present to validate their campaign — virtually all of the socialist nations that seem to be making a success of it are tiny nations with tiny populations, compared to, say, the United States of America.

.

Unless it over-reaches itself, China is on course to become a bigger economic power than the US within 10-15 years (maybe a lot less). Last time I checked it was a market economy controlled by Communists.

Even Japan, with its population of 128 million, is starting to see that their experiment in socialism is going to bankrupt the country within 10 years.

This is, perhaps the daftest part of all. Japan has been in thrall to an industrial money-making machine for seventy years. It has never really embraced socialism with any enthusiasm.

I'm beginning to wonder how you define socialism? Centralised health-care? An economy and democracy not so dependent upon or so easily undermined by mega-corporations with an agenda to pursue? What, exactly, is your definition? Or do you just choose to see monsters where only shadows fall?

In a word?
Yes.
The EU might have looked nice on paper, but in reality is a total mess. Get out now and the UK has a chance of retaining it's fiscal health (as poor as it is, currently).

In the current form of the agreement we are expected to live by within in the EU, yes we should leave but we still need to have a relationship with Europe, and it should be in the spirit of a free trade and travel association across Europe and not one that enables some form of European super state to dictate how each part of Europe should live.

Europe is a vast land, with many difference peoples, cultures and language, yet under the current arrangements, my views that I express to my Government during an election, mean nothing if some pan European body has the right to tell my Government, and then me, how I want my country run.

A classic example - The death penalty. Under our current agreement with the EU, there is no way that a UK government would listen to any part of the UK electorate and seriously consider allowing the British people to vote on the return of the death penalty or even for that matter on what kind of relationship the UK should have with Europe.
Just remember, the Irish people were not listened to the first time, and the European elite, gave the Irish Government the change to educate the Irish people to the right answer.

Freeborn’s second post on this thread is an excellent summary of how we got here, and freeborn is quite right that there was a vote in 1975 but what was voted for then and what we have today are two very difference animals.

At the very least, there should be an open discussion and the British people given the opportunity to decide on how we continue to operate with the EU, but the European elite do not want to give anyone the opportunity to vote on being part of the EU, because they can not control the result.