Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ...

I think personally the theory of:

Few, if any, other civilizations currently exist.

Maybe there is alien civilizations out there....but only like a dozen or so across the galaxy. Is that so hard to believe?

Either way....the fermi paradox remains supreme. Until we see aliens(god lets hope they are good....or off to war we go)we should just assume we are alone.

Another thing we should be doing is keeping quiet.

There just might be alien life out there teeming...many civilizations. If so...why keep quiet?

Maybe the aliens are hiding from something for someone?

Maybe the aliens assumed that since everyone else is quiet they should too...i mean if its got aliens scared or prudent enough to keep quiet dont you think we should?

Maybe aliens have gotten our signals...and they are thinking "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!! YOUR GONNA BRING THEM DOWN ON OUR HEADS!!"

or something of the effect of "stupid humans...they are dooming there species to extinction".

Our boundless curiosity is going to get us killed one day.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
Here is my own poorly formed
andwer to the Fermi paradox and aliens.

(12) Due to the limitations of light speed the only
way aliens can visit us is to beam energy signatures
to our planet. Which they have done for thousands of
years, even millions. They are called plants. In the future
when we can do it, we will be able to experience other planets
as plants ourselves. The problem is that we don't treat our
visitors very well and the word has gotten out about us.
So even our very close cousins won't come visit us
in person. "All they do is eat or burn us."

Seriously. What?


(I know, 2 lines, but I honestly have nothing else to say.)



Cheers?
Strype

I find it humorous that men capable of using math to solve lifes questions are also so close minded as to assume that what they conclude HAS to be right.

Logic tells us that in most cases this man Fermi would be correct. The usual argument of "well if its not this, than it has to be this" is a good one to use when proving a point, but IMO life is too complex for us to limit ourselves to a FINITE amount of possibilities.

Its always possible that everything happens not just for a reason, but a myriad of reasons, maybe some we cant possibly conceive of yet.

Personally, I subscribe to the idea that there are most likely an infinite amount of other forms of life out there, our universe is vast beyond our comprehension, plus you can get into the theory of parallel dimensions...

I assume that beings intelligent enough to find us, are either not interested in communicating with us, similar to how we go to a zoo only to observe, not to try and explain quantum physics, or they HAVE been working with us since the beginning, and they are the Gods and prophets of old...

I also assume that there are forms of life that are millions of years older than us, but advance in different ways, and are relatively primitive technologically, like the movie Avatar.

Its definitely one of those topics where the more you think about it, the more your brain starts to hurt with all the possibilities... Good thread OP!





[edit on 12-5-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

Hahah it's prettyfunny that some dude did a math problem to try n understand why no one was meeting with our planet.
First, we can hear them but We are not suppose to talk to them. We are a prison planet. There were very few started with our version of life. We are not suppose to talk to others if you understand that.
We are alone because we are an experiment.
Yes, some people have seen,heard,recorded "their" presence but "they" get in trouble with other entity governments

you guys really have no idea what's going on

I have found the solution for femis paradox.....we are the smartest species.

Maybe alien civilizations have been around for millions and millions possibly billions of yrs.....but we just expand so much faster then everyone else. Maybe it took them 1000 times longer to get to where we are now then we did.

Maybe they were stuck in the medieval ages for thousands of yrs...and subsequently it took just as long or longer to advance in a 'age'.

Especially if they are extremly long lived. Why rush when each and every person could live 100 times longer then we can?

Maybe what makes us unique is that since we have such short life spans (compared to others) we rush through things and thus acheive things 10,000s of times faster then other species.

Or they are taking much longer in there evolution then we did.

OR they did not have societal pressures pushing them to invent new things.

Maybe they dont have the drive or will humanity does. mabe they are a staid species and we just rush into things with energy and enthusiasm that they dont have?

In conclusion...maybe we are just unique compared to other species. Maybe we just achieved in 5,000 yrs what it would take others millions or billions.....you never know.


[edit on 12-5-2010 by tauempire]

reply to post by Onasty


I love it when people like you come in and tell everybody else that they dont know anything about whats going on... because obviously you do right?

Why, because you have read something on the internet that you believe?

So what? We all have our beliefs. There is nothing special about you that makes your opinion more valuable than someone elses. If you think this is a prison planet, perhaps you are here to learn some humility?



[edit on 12-5-2010 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by tauristercus
1 - We are the first on the scene or at least we are so early that there is nobody around to visit us or to try to communicate with us
Even though possible, one has to regard this particular scnario as being statistically highly unlikely. Scientific evidence indicates that life arose on this planet as early as conditions would permit, most likely within a 1.2 billion years of condensation out of the solar nebula and within 200 million years of the cessation of major bombardment of Earth by planetoids. Our star system is a Population I stellar system, i.e. it is made up elements heavier than Lithium. Population I stars are necessary for the existence of life as we know it. Without these heavier elements, it would be impossible for terrestrial type planets to form, let alone the complex organic molecules that life is constructed of. Population I stars are formed from the remnants of nova and more importantly supernova. They are necessary processes to create and disperse the heavier elements that we are made up of. It's been estimated that the amount of time required for a star to form out of an interstellar nebula is less than a million years. Given that the age of our galaxy is estimated to be 12 to 15 billion years, it is unreasonable to assume that terrestrial type planets capable of supporting life would not have formed within first several billion years of the birth of the galaxy. This would give a span of time of 10 to 13 BILLION years that no intelligent life capable of sustaining an advanced civilization occurred in our galaxy. As already mentioned, this seems a highly unlikely scenario.

Not quite (emphasis mine):

www.physics.sfsu.edu...

The age of the Universe, unlike the aforementioned fundamental forces, does not at first glance seem to have much bearing on whether intelligence can exist in it. However, it is more closely linked than it might appear. As has been said, heavier elements are necessary for life, and elements like carbon, the basis of life as we know it, take a long time to form. In fact, supernovae are the only way that heavy elements can get distributed to places that they can be of use, but supernovae are rare. If we backtracked through the Universe’s life, we would soon (soon being a relative term, in comparison to the age of the Universe) come to a time where there are far fewer of the heavier elements than there are now, and then to a time when there are none. It seems, in fact, that it has taken this long (about 15 billion years) for supernovae to distribute enough of the various heavy elements for life to be possible. So we are really living at the earliest point that it would be possible for us to live at. The vast age of the Universe is also necessary for our existence.

On that note also see:

The Anthropic Principle


The Anthropic Principal is based upon the idea that the universe is based upon several fundamental constants of physics; these physical constants describe the way the Universe works. But what has recently been recognized is that any minor variation in these constants would make life impossible. The fact that these constants seem to finely tuned to permit life provides a strong indication that there was design behind them; they did not just fall into place out of chance. John Wheeler, who first made this idea popular, stated, “A life-giving factor lies at the centre of the whole machinery and design of the world.”

The idea that the universe was created for mankind has been a central point of philosophy in many cultures up until the recent past. The notion that the natural world, including the cosmos, was created for man is the very bedrock of many world religions and world-views, including the Judaic, Greek, and Christian philosophies. Teleology is the study of the evidence for overall design and purpose in nature. It proposes the Universe was created for a purpose and did not randomly leap into existence. Teleology has attracted the attention of many prominent philosophers and theologians such as Augustine, Maimonides, Aquinas, Newton, and Paley, all of whom devoted much of their life to this philosophical notion.

It has only been comparatively recently, however, that there has been recognition that design may also apply to gross features of the universe. In 1937, Paul Dirac noted that the number of baryons (protons plus neutrons) in the universe is almost exactly equal to the inverse square of the gravitational constant, and to the square of the age of the universe. Dirac, later in 1961, noted that these relationships would imply a narrow age range of the universe during which time life could come forth. Stars of the right type for sustaining planets capable of supporting life can only occur during a certain narrow age range for the universe. Similarly, stars of the right type can only form within a narrow range of values for the gravitational constant. It was this latter interesting fact that led for the search and documentation of other “coincidences” that must occur simultaneously for life to exist on earth.




[...]



g. The Age of the Universe. The age of the universe determines what kind of stars exist. It took about 2 billion years for the first stars to form, and then another 10 billion years for supernovae to disperse enough heavy metals for our planets to form. Another few billion years were then necessary for solar-type stars to form and then stabilize in order to support advanced life. Therefore, if the universe were only a few billion years old, then there would not be enough heavy medals formed to produce planets such as the earth. On the other hand, if the universe were much older, then there would no longer be solar-type stars in order to support life either.




[...]



Many other potential similar relationships are currently being actively researched. However, the twenty planetary characteristics listed above would be fulfilled in much fewer than a trillionth of a trillionth of a percent of all stars. Considering that the universe only has about a trillion galaxies each of which averages one hundred billion stars, statistics argue that not even one planet would be expected by natural processes alone to harbor life. Many astronomers such as Robert Rood and James Trefil, among others, are now deciding that given the above statistical probability, it is unlikely that life, especially intelligent life, exists anywhere else in the universe.

Given these facts and observations the universe is, in my opinion, still too young to be teaming with life and/or life, and the conditions necessary for it, are extremely rare and we are all there is... for all practical purposes. We are either (on of the) first or we are the only intelligent life around.

In other words, Fermi was correct and Drake was wrong. In my humble opinion, of course. *shrug*

(edit)if anyone is interested, I wrote a thread a few years back on the Anthropic Principle and the rarity of life [here]

[edit on Wed May 12 2010 by Rren]

Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ...

We are technologically and in other ways exceedingly primitive in comparison to other galactic civilizations that have mastered space travel.

We are considered a "nature preserve" for study, but not interference.

Think Yellowstone wolf packs. Studied from afar, not interfered with and occassionallyy we will swoop down in a helicopter, shoot one with a tranquilizer gun and collect blood, dna samples, check the teeth etc..

Really to a civilization that has mastered space travel...what they must think about us regularly bombing and murdering eachothers "tribes" in masse because petty disputes, or what god a "tribe" worships.

We aren't any more morally advanced than cave-men hitting eachother over the head with rocks, except we use guns and bombs...

any alien observer would have to view us as extraordinarily primitive and indisputably hostile. Killing our own kind over petty things like ethnicity, religion and geography....

UFO's have been regularly seen and reported by military around nuclear installations...What do you think an alien race, perhaps unfamiliar with the concept of war, would think of nuclear weapons?

They are just observing...and ocassionally they "dart" one of us and collect samples.

Somewhere out at the edge of our solar system is an alien beacon that says "Nature Preserve, Study in Progress, Beware of wildlife, No Trespassing! "

Just my fanciful opinion on the matter.

On the question of IF as opposed to WHERE..

God doesn't waste space...we are just a microscopic speck in a universe that is chocked full of other planets.

I think we have discovered something like 400 exo-planets in the past 10 years...and astronomers admit we are only able to find the most obvious ones and have no doubt that there are likely 10 times or more planets just in our observational range. So maybe 4000 planets within "sight"...god doesn't waste space. Of course there is sophisticated life out there.

Originally posted by Xeven
I do believe there is other life out there. If you look at all the life that has existed on earth. Only one has become intelligent enough to begin to fathom the idea of talking to other intelligent beings.

That does not play well for there being lots of intelligent life out there.

Life may indeed be abundant in the universe but intelligent life may be an aberration.

If we are the only intelligent life, then we sure are a waste of space. If you don't agree just open your eyes to the world and see how we really work.

I am not going to lie and I didn't read the whole thing. I hate long posts my attention span is bad. But there are signs of alien life and the ancients tell us they do exists.The problem is I believe they don't show themselves is because they are not allowed to unless in an extreme event that will kill most of our species. they probably have some prime directive like the vulcans had in star trek.

OR .... Maybe; the evidence is right in front of us and we are too blind to see and too arrogant to admit it.

Originally posted by ratqueen
OR .... Maybe; the evidence is right in front of us and we are too blind to see and too arrogant to admit it.

OR maybe you are wrong and we are alone.

Sorry to burst your bubble OP but your whole theory makes no sense. There is a TON of proof we have been visited since the beginning. All sorts of government witnesses have come out and stated what they have seen/done in relation to ET. These are not unreliable sources but very intelligent scientists, engineers and military personel. How can you say this is not proof?? In court it is. Are you waiting for the guy on the 6 oclock news to tell you aliens are real? You'll be waiting a long long time then.

How can you refute the witnesses at Bentwaters, Roswell, Phoenix in 97', as stated above all the gov't witnesses? The 3000+ ground landing evidence where the ground was physically altered and material left behind? How about the implants taken out of people with chemical isotopes that prove they weren't made of material from earth? To go out on the fringe the huge crop circles made in 15 minutes. Radar proof, all COMETA report from the French, all the ancient carvings from all over the world showing UFOs, the WWII foo fighter accounts, it goes on and on and on...

The fact is the aliens don't just land because the first thing that would happen would be someone would shoot at them. We are still a barbaric society, all we do is fight wars with each other, would you come here?

Well they don't want to come here out in the open just yet, yet they are here. Maybe this is what 2012 is all about. We sure could use their help witih this oil spill!

Anyway I think this original post is terrible, just a regurgitation of information that all of us at ATS already know. And from a skewed non-realistic viewpoint that doesn't take all the evidence into account

reply to post by aardvark888


I was reading through the comments section to see if someone else thought the same as me before I posted. I agree with you, and the guy with the Futurama Avatar. Could it be that we are alone in the universe? Maybe it's our playground, or our wilderness, to discover? Or maybe it's like the Psalmist in Psalm 19
" The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world."

I think that it was just made for us to wonder at, and to show His awesomeness. But I won't be disappointed if there are other beings out there either.

This is an extremely comprehensive and well written post, and I'm really glad someone wrote it so that we can ponder this. I often come to the same conclusions and end up with the same questions. Every time I consider the very real possibility (and it is possible, in lieu of any irrefutable proof to the contrary) that we are indeed alone in this vast universe - or at least in any practical sense - I always end up left scratching my head and wondering the following (many of these were touched upon already - I'm jut making my own list that always goes through my head):

What if they exist but don't share the same expansionist and diplomatic tendencies we have?

What if they are literally so alien and inconceivable to us in their nature, wants, and motivations, that we are literally incapable of understanding their existence? That is to say, what if there is nothing about them that would automatically result in them having been detected by us by now, regardless of how advanced they might be?

What if being technologically or intellectually advanced doesn't automatically have to result in interstellar travel, or interstellar communication? What if they are far, far more advanced than us technologically, but for whatever reason that we are incapable of conceiving of, simply do not develop those particular modalities?

What if intelligent life exists but is rare, and simply hasn't found us yet or vice-versa?

What if all intelligent life evolves, at least initially, at a similar rate as we have. That is to say, what if they aren't capable of contacting us yet, but will in the future? (i.e. what if their technological singularity, if such a thing actually does occur eventually, is faster, more enabling, etc. etc. etc. than ours will be when and if it happens?)

What if they are so advanced they have literally transcended four dimensional space-time (if such a thing is even possible) and now exist primarily in another dimension or series of dimensions?

What if they are so advanced, they have the means of hiding their existence from those they view as unready to know about them?

All of these might seem outlandish at first glance, but how do we know our natures, ways, and very existence might not seem highly improbable or bizarre to other advanced intelligences?

Great topic, and one worthy of deep consideration in my opinion.

There is one more area of explanation you didn't cover. Try this:

Every civilization that attempts to develop technology for interstellar travel happens upon a fundamental discovery. That discovery allows said civilization to essentially leave this universe and go to a place much more desirable than this one.

In-other-words, this universe is like a testing ground for intelligence. If you can figure a way out of it, then you have graduated to the next level and joined "the club".

That would explain why we don't see any visitors: They have left the room.

Originally posted by one_man24
I think that it was just made for us to wonder at, and to show His awesomeness. But I won't be disappointed if there are other beings out there either.

So God has a ego and wants humans to be impressed by his creations to feel good about himself?

Could be, but sounds more like the ideas of humans to me...


[edit on 12-5-2010 by Copernicus]

Thanks Op for all your work an almost hynotising read, which I find quite common on ATS.
Where are they. They are very much here and humans cannot recognise them, nor can they reconise their signatures in space. You have not included hyper dimensions in your post, where there are no limits unlike this reality. But even in this reality mental telepathy is instantaneous.

Cheers

as a race we are like a mould. we grow and consume every thing. we are not looking after are home planet. we are still on the edge of a world war. the oil in the gulf and many other pollutants are poisoning the world. I would be absolutely amazed if we live to conalize space. So maybe all life is like us. they kill them self’s off. they never live very long. even if we do get to another world we will still do it there. we are like cancer. we kill are self’s off. and look at are sciences toys! any one of them can kill us all off. so there was life in space before us. it just kill’d its self.