Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ...

Originally posted by Raider of Truth
Please don't depress us with this..it's good for a large portion of the world population to believe in something worthwhile...rather this than the teachings of a jewish magician and invisible God.

I highly believe the stories of todays false religions are based off Aliens seen in the skies.

Also how do we actually know if it is quiet...we haven't heard space or been there the only ones who would know the answers are astronauts and groups that monitor that sort of thing.

I've had my own disclosure with my own close encounters multiple times

Lol. Really? Really? You name isn't Bill is it? lol

So what your saying is that an invisible God is completely ignorant when physics today is working of theories of invisible dimensions? Lol. People like you crack me up. Although I think your sense of humor and somewhat confused way of thinking could get you a show on HBO, I believe your sense of direction is left to coincidence or chance.

reply to post by Hung Lo

Maybe an advanced alien race can live on a different plain of existence.

That would possibly be called a different realm or maybe even a "spirit world" yes no?

It is hard to really say what the chances are of there being other life in the universe, simply because we dont even know for sure what the chances of us ending up here are. I mean, we are here, so obviously there was a chance, but how small of a chance? It could have been one in a billion, or a trillion. In which case there is a possibility that life would exist on one of some other group of billion or trillion planets, other than the billion or trillion that we are in.

It has to be taken into acount not only the small chance of life existing but also how small of a chance that it would build up to where life on earth is today. It is still debated on how exactly events transpired and I don't beieve anyone can say for sure. The unlikeliness and fragility of the events that lead to our dominion of the earth were extreme, to say the least. I would even venture to say that there really may simply be no other intelligent life out there.

However, on the other side of the coin, it is also possible that the existence of life actually is not as unlikely as i am assuming. In which case it would also have to be taken into account that our technological advancements wouldnt necessarily make it true that an alien civilization would also have such advancements. There are still places on earth that are very primitive, and if things had gone differently in the past the entire world may be a very different place.

In short, the fact that we cannot find any other life in our galaxy only says to me how incredibly lucky we are, in the grand scheme of things, to have been given an opportunity to glimpse the splendor of the universe.

Thanks for your hard work on this excellent thread.

Please forgive me for picking bones, but why is this a paradox?

Fermi posits the idea that if the earth were not a freak and there were other inteligent life in the universe, then we'd see the evidence. A valid argument, but a straight forward one - not a paradox...!

The only possible paradox is that if 'the galactic silence' is evidence of there not being life in the universe, then how are we here?

Perhaps we are not here! Perhaps the fundermantal [Shiva-esque) state of universal consiousnes is madness and we are it's fantasy....

I digress - did Fermi see us as the proof of paradox, or is his theory paradox free?

Originally posted by McGinty
Thanks for your hard work on this excellent thread.

Please forgive me for picking bones, but why is this a paradox?

Fermi posits the idea that if the earth were not a freak and there were other inteligent life in the universe, then we'd see the evidence. A valid argument, but a straight forward one - not a paradox...!

The only possible paradox is that if 'the galactic silence' is evidence of there not being life in the universe, then how are we here?

Perhaps we are not here! Perhaps the fundermantal [Shiva-esque) state of universal consiousnes is madness and we are it's fantasy....

I digress - did Fermi see us as the proof of paradox, or is his theory paradox free?

Nice point.

Since it's called a paradox I would say he saw it as proof of a paradox.

Maybe there are advanced civilisations out there. That far advanced that they are no longer physical but exist only as energy.

Maybe they are here, existing on a different frequency?

reply to post by Conclusion

Since it's called a paradox I would say he saw it as proof of a paradox.

I would go a little farther with what you have said here Conc. To say
that academicaly it's a paradox. Theologicaly it's a perfect fit.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


That is very true RV. If science cannot find advanced life it could turn into total theory revision on.....well a lot of theories.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by demonseed

 

Even if we are late-comers, our high level of fascination regarding the concept of time travel may eventually lead to us developing real time travel to go with our inter-stellar flight capabilities.

Think 'self-replicating probes of death' as opposed to the self-replicating probes of exploration/colonization we are familiar with. The probes would go to their targets at an earlier time, kill them off, and then replicate and repeat until there are no more planets with lifeforms meeting the requirements for extermination.

This would ensure our total dominion of the galaxy and makes alot of sense. If we don't develop time travel and kill everything else out there, one of them will eventually kill us - maybe even using time travel.

(That this has not happened to us practically proves how totally badass the future humans are. )

*For all we know, some UFOs could even be sent by future humans 'just in case' some freak accident occurs and an alien race manages to send an extermination probe to earth. Then the future humans can use the UFOs to trace the probe back to the civilization that sent it and send an extermination probe to their homeworld before they've even had the chance to evolve into anything remotely intelligent.





[edit on 12-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

As with any time travel theory, there are so many things we do not know about time travel yet. I still find the idea fascinating, so i will participate in this debate

Ok... so....

Your saying:
We (in the future) developed time travel capabilities.
We went back in time to kill off other species before they had the capability to attack us.
Some of these species caught on and sent their own killers back in time to kill us off, but the humans sent their own(UFOs?) to help stop these alien time travelers from killing them.

This sounds alot like terminator... no offense. However, in terminator Skynet did activate and the "future" that they thought would happen ended up being a completely different future.

In which case, it begs the question..
Does changing the past affect the future? Or does it create a whole new timeline?

I personally dont believe that changing the past would change in the future. If it did, our entire world would be completely different everyday.

Also, what i meant by late comers is, that other civilizations would have the power to kill us off much more quickly than we would. This is theoretically thinking, but it makes sense. The galaxy is so old that another civilization would have to have thought like this before we did.

There are tribes in Amazon that have never ever seen other human beings, except our airplanes, even though their or "our" planet is filled with humans on every corner. They probably think there's nothing else but few nearby villages surrounded by endless forests on the entire planet.

Even today there are pockets of our planet that civilized man has not invaded yet. Our galaxy could just as well be that pocket. Do those people in Amazon even want to be civilized? If they had witnessed our "magic" would they think we are happier than them? Could they ever be assimilated into our society? Those questions have already been answered by invading European colonies... I think very similar answer applies to us when it comes to aliens.

Many people already think that our interference and meddling with other civilisations only brings upon corruption, evil and suffering. Many think that only in most dire situations should civilized man intervene to save other races or settlements. Still though, we love to visit "mystical" places in good intent, untouched by hands of corruption in hope that we learn something ourselves, as opposed to teaching them something from us. I think that visits such as these have been conducted by aliens before and they did leave some artefacts, but sadly there's no known conclusive evidence.

That said, the Fermi paradox still applies. But IMO we're not fully aware of alien societies because we are still in a relatively uncolonised part of the galaxy and alien forces don't feel like giving us their "pandora's box" yet. We have too many troubles with our own box - apple from the tree of knowledge. We can barely handle nuclear energy, and now it seems antimatter is coming as well... we're too irresponsible bunch of monkeys.

Were extremely lucky we evolved into the intelligent species we are. The stars were aligned and the conditions were right for us.
One thing is there being intelligent enough life out there but the other thing is how the hell are they going to find us? There are countles stellar bodies in the universe. They need to be yber advanced to be able to pinpoint our location. This reduces the odds of a contact even more.
But I hope that some day we'll be able to ansver the question.

reply to post by demonseed


Hmmm. Our problem with time travel is that it can only be physically experienced one dimension less than the one you inhabit. We can only experience 2d time in the 3rd dimension. 4th dimension would experience 3d time and so on and so forth.

Originally posted by DGFenrir
Were extremely lucky we evolved into the intelligent species we are. The stars were aligned and the conditions were right for us.
One thing is there being intelligent enough life out there but the other thing is how the hell are they going to find us? There are countles stellar bodies in the universe. They need to be yber advanced to be able to pinpoint our location. This reduces the odds of a contact even more.
But I hope that some day we'll be able to ansver the question.

Lol. Luck?! Lets say you where playing dice. (Don't laugh RV). Lets say you where playing with 100 trillion dice. Now lets say when you rolled them they landed in a straight line and arranged in order from 1 to 100 trillion. That would take a little more than luck. That would also happen before life just began from luck.

Originally posted by Holist1c
Maybe there are advanced civilisations out there. That far advanced that they are no longer physical but exist only as energy.

Maybe they are here, existing on a different frequency?

Fermi's point, i think, is that there may well be civilizations so far advanced of us that they are invisible, but the vastness of the universe means that there should also be everything else in-between -- many civilizations more advanced, but not yet invisible to us - not just us and the invisibles.

reply to post by demonseed


I already covered that - we probably won't be changing our own past.

We would probably be changing the past of humanity of a parallel universe and our past would in turn be changed by humans from another parallel universe.

It would be teamwork on a quantum level.

Do you understand?

(Please don't expect me simplify this down into a back scratching analogy - I won't lower myself to that. Not again.)


*By 'changed' I mean 'cleansed of potential alien threats/competition'...

The galaxy is so old that another civilization would have to have thought like this before we did.

Well apparently they didn't....

...Perhaps a future humanity has already destroyed them in our past for us.



[edit on 12-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by McGinty


Yeah that is true. There should be some in between.

But then again we haven't even found our own missing link.

Another paradox?

If one begins with the assumption that life can just "create" itself spontaneously, then with that sort of flawed premise, it actually would be logical to assume that life could exist elsewhere. Problem is, life cannot create itself, and there is no evidence to the contrary. The size/age of the universe is irrelevant. Nothing creates nothing. Call it closed minded if you like. Observation: many of you defend the existance of aliens (with no physical evidence*) with as much zeal as a Christian who defends the existance of God, anyone else notice the irony?

* others have stated there are hundreds of thousands of "spacecraft" sightings etc. Actually all of these "spacecraft" are observed in our atmosphere, NOT space, and if they are unidentified, how do you know: what they are and who (if anyone) is on them?

[edit on 12-5-2010 by kingofmd]

Originally posted by McGinty
Thanks for your hard work on this excellent thread.

Please forgive me for picking bones, but why is this a paradox?

Fermi posits the idea that if the earth were not a freak and there were other inteligent life in the universe, then we'd see the evidence. A valid argument, but a straight forward one - not a paradox...!

Not picking bones at all but a valid question

Fermi was considering the probability of other technological civilizations developing within our galaxy over its 13 billion year existence as extremely high based on reasonable assumptions. The inescapable conclusion reached was that during the period of the galaxy's existence, thousands if not millions of technological civilizations would have had the time and opportunity to come into existence and eventually travel throughout and potentially colonize every suitable star system ... Fermi thought that evidence of the existence of these technological civilizations should have been every where you looked ... but in reality, there was no sign whatsoever that there had ever been any other civilizations in our galaxy besides ourselves.
To Fermi, this was a monumental paradox.

reply to post by Exuberant1


The only thing about time that I know for sure is that we are always moving through time to our future. It seems to be of a natural nature. All of the physical technology that we have is built based on linear time. How fast can something get from point A to point B. 2d time.

reply to post by McGinty


Yeah , you would think that there would be some inbetween.

Having said that maybe life in other parts of the universe hasn't developed the same way as it has done on earth.

If it has developed in a similiar way to earth, a far more advanced civilisation may still be too far from earth to physically reach us.