Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ...

there is one simple explanation which tends to be ignored.

We are looking at light, which travels at a finite speed.

What we see in the sky happened in the past, the further away the longer ago it happened.

It takes time for life to form and develop, especially intergalactic life.

So, unless life is either very close or developed eons ago, we will never see it. By the time the evidence of their existence reaches us, earth will be no more.

I know where they are. They are behind the cloaking device someone suggested is responsible for the hole in space. See oter article. Ha ha ha

Congrats to the OP, excellent thread. S+F for you.
Great effort, and very well put together, very provoking and inviting.
Some of the posters have made very good points and what has happened to me is that I´ve reached the conclusion that we should go into hiding.
Humanity should not seek to make contact with other advanced civilizations out there.
I think it was Stephen Hawking that at some time made the point that we should take a look at humanity´s history in how some civilizations have dealt with encounters with other civilizations in our own past. Not a pretty picture at all.
We can see from this records that our behavior hasn´t been very positive when getting to interact with others.
But here´s an idea I´d like to run by you:
Imagine a humanoid society with similar development than us only with these few variables.
Religion was done away with altogether. No beliefs of gods. Very practical efficient, and driven only to colonize other planets. They are convinced that they are the chosen ones, the superior race and that they must spread throughout the universe.
They find us and find our planet very appealing. Then they see us as very undeveloped and making a mess of this very appealing planet.
What would they do?? Probably wipe out humanity of this planet, and establish a colony.
So, I say, let´s try to solve out problems to try to get along and keep quiet.
When we develop the tools and technology to go to other stars, then should be the time to deal with the possibility of making contact with other advanced civilizations.

THEY ARE HERE. Hello? The evidence of ETs surrounds us.

If you've watched Star Trek, you might be familiar with the Prime Directive. I've copied the definition below as my attempts to summarize it fell short of this..

no Star Fleet personnel may interfere with the healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes the introduction of superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Star Fleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral

I wouldn't be surpised if the Alien cultures that observe our planet have a similar code.

I think that the uniervise is far far older than we think it is. Every one else came to the game a long time ago. The game is now over and we showed up just before they turn out the lights. I have felt this way since I was a little kid. I have always felt that we humans just showed up late and missed all the fun and the best we can hope for is to find a empty soda cup or popcorn box to even know there were ever any one there before us.

I believe that the physical universe is kind of a school for our souls, spirits, beings, whatever you want to call them. It's a small part of the much wider range of life. (the nonphysical realms) It operates in cycles, both small and large, with each new cycle offering the potential for ascension or descension, depending on the choices made and actions taken.

So...what if the other hypothetical planets with intelligent life operate in a similar way to Earth -- in cycles -- with each cycle ending in a mass extinction, or something of that sort. Most civilizations would be wiped out and started anew before interstellar space travel could be accomplished, with the inhabitants of each new civilization getting a little further in technological advancements than the last cycle's inhabitants. This would continue until the inhabitants/humans/other random 'alien' intelligent species (from here on referred to as INHABS) fully awoke to the reality of life and the universe (that we are multi-dimensional beings having a physical experience), in which case they would 'ascend'. (i don't mean to heaven or something with religious connotations, just ascend to a higher frequency out of the 3D universe) So in this theory, that would normally happen before getting to the point of reaching a level of technology capable of ISST. (which would, in theory, take an extremely long time comprised of many many cycles)

But, what if a certain planet's inhabs took exceptionally long to get to that point of spiritual advancement, for whatever reason (focusing on technology too much, versus a spiritual understanding of themselves and life?), and kept cycling over and over, with each cycle's inhabs becoming more and more technologically advanced? Perhaps THEY would then be able to achieve interstellar travel at some point in some cycle, since they're obviously not focusing on advancement in a spiritual way, but rather in a technological way.

This theory would require a very high percentage of 'alien' civilizations to reach a level of spiritual advancement, hence the "where are they" phenomenon -- they just aren't there. They didn't choose to stick around in physical existence long enough to worry about interstellar space travel. Why would one do so once you've realized that you don't need a ship to go to other energy systems -- all you need is your mind, or awareness, or 'soul', whatever you want to call it -- train it to be able to do so, and go where ever you want.

So if this is how it is -- which who knows, it's just my theory -- then I guess it would be a great sign -- that such a small percentage of alien civilizations take the technological advancement route instead of the spiritual advancement route. Because if it was the other way around, then we'd obviously be seeing some of them.

Who knows...fun thread; I didn't get to read all the pages of replies, but just wanted to get my opinion out there. This is my second post, thanks for reading it whoever got this far.

I just wanted to add that I do think it is somewhat obvious that there ARE 'aliens' that have/do visit Earth, and while these may be aliens who have achieved interstellar travel and are from other solar systems, who says they have to be? Perhaps they are from our own solar system, and it's just one more piece of information that's been being kept from us.

Or, perhaps they are from elsewhere, which would (in the fun of assuming my theory in my previous reply is correct) mean that there is a fair amount of civilizations that focus more on technological achievements vs. spiritual advancement in the long run. And it makes me wonder...if there ARE 2 main routes of inhab advancement on opposite ends of the 'growth' spectrum , with the spiritual route being the positive one and tech being the negative one (you'd assume by focusing too much on technology a civilization could lose touch with it's natural self), would we even WANT to meet them? Possibly not...

great thread and very well put together OP, i have never heard of the Fermi paradox before either so thank you for that. I enjoyed reading all of the different theories!

I didn't read everyone elses responses, but what i was thinking is maybe the reason for the great silence can be because, well if you believe in parallel universes and/or string theory maybe they are there.

Also, what if they are in a different dimension than us?

I def believe that we are being visited but maybe they are so advanced they have figured out how to jump dimensions, or they are coming from a parallel universe.

Hope that made sense!

SnF for you OP!

reply to post by tauristercus


This is an interesting proposal that you have put forth. It seems to make sense. It seems to have considered all possibilities. Save one.

The point that I am trying to make is that intelligence is RARE. When I say rare, I mean infinitesimally so. For example, look at our planet, Earth. Many Scientific communities measure the effects of things like chemicals in the PPM or, Parts Per Million, scenario. I am unsure as to how many unique species are inhabiting Earth. I do know that the number is over a million. Let's say that there are 65 million unique species on Earth(for example). Homo Sapiens are the only creatures on earth that know what the Internet is. Mathematically, on Earth, that would mean that intelligence exists in 1 per 65 million(based on my example).

Intelligence, frankly, is absurdly rare. Your eleven points are interesting. However, I do not think that intelligent alien life can be so easily classified into eleven distinct groups. I firmly believe, to the core of my existence, that human beings are freaks of nature. We are the only species on Earth that can comprehend such things as Morality, Ethics, Law, etcerra.

I firmly believe that life exists in other parts of the universe. I do not, however, believe that it is Intelligent Life. Judging intelligent alien civilizations in the context of human history, the only rational conclusion to me is that Intelligent Life is a blight on the Homeostasis of the planet that it supports. Humans rape and pillage the Earth. I find it extremely easy to believe that an exo-planet intelligence would do the very same thing to the planet they are inhabiting.

Considering the destructive nature of intelligence, the chaotic destructive phenomena that a planet experiences, such as Gamma Ray Bursts, Meteor Impacts, ETC. Intelligent life would be extinguished long before that life could travel into their solar system, let alone their galaxy.

It is interesting to speculate about. However, I will not personally believe in Alien Intelligence until the intelligent lifeform exposes their presence globally to humanity.

Intelligence on a world with life is absurdly rare.

Originally posted by CUBD1
THEY ARE HERE. Hello? The evidence of ETs surrounds us.

Exactly!

I support these statements.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a4e8337d9eb7.jpg[/atsimg]

Adolf is experiencing thought transference in the above photo.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by lowki]

reply to post by tauristercus


Great thread, very well put together S&F.

One thing I'd like to say/mention though is - maybe other intelligent beings out there are the ones who are unique, maybe they are on a different plane of existence and we will not be able to make true contact until we rise to this higher plane or dimension.

We think we are very open minded, but in reality, there are things out there in the vastness of space that are incomprehensible to us. Words would not suffice to be more clear about what I'm trying to say.

We really are a young species just developing some decent technology - what may seem to us as very advanced compared to what we grew up too and with, may very well be not much at all in the large scheme of things.

I do however believe we had some sort of a 'breakthrough' and are on the right path now and we will be developing technology must faster. In our lifetimes I believe we will see things we only dreamed about as children, and our children will get a much greater view of things as well (and so on).

When I read the OP I thought to myself "Could we really be the only intelligent life, or the only life at all?" - it made me sort of shutter. There is just no possible way that we are the only form of life. We are just realizing how big our own galaxy is, not long ago (looking at the time line of human existence that is) people thought you'd fall off the edge of the world if you ventured off too far. Now look where we are at.

We have much to learn, and until people open their minds to the incredible possibilities that are right in front of us, we will not further our technology, or advance our species as a whole.

Planets out there might be missing a crucial element to grow life beyond a certain stage of development. Something the Earth has but isn't very likely to occur a lot. Like say... having an extremely large moon that stabilizes the wobble of the planet, preventing large climate swings to spin out of control, giving life a change to outgrow the struggle for survival and step out towards becoming a space-dwelling species.

Such a large moon is a variable that won't be a common companion for a rocky planet.

The moon seems to be an important element to habitability and a stable environment on our planet. So in order to answer the question: "how likely are other Earths?", you really have to know the answer to the question: "how likely are other moons?"

With this theory in mind the odds of a universe teeming with intelligent life are downed severely.

On the other hand, the internet as we know it, could be a natural technologically evolution and all those millions of alien civilisations are typing away on their little home-world-bound-networks, asking this same question to each other on their ATS-like chat-boards. Without feeling the need to get out a lot.

Both theories are equally plausible.

The fact that we don't see any evidence of ANY kind of colonization, radio signals, nothing whatsoever ... is the central heart of the Paradox

But that hasn't happened ... WHY NOT ??

It has happened. It's done. They are here right before our eye's, but man has became to blind to see. They have and are still communicating and soon on a wider and louder scale. Disclosure is the great lie that is about to come. THe aliens aren't out there. They aren't even aliens or E.T's. They have been here before we came here. Hawking is right, they are dangerous, but he too is looking in the wrong direction.

The reason they haven't communicated is simple, they have and a few poor souls have paid the price for listening.

The paradox is bunk. There here, they are waiting to be released.

reply to post by Conclusion


I believe You are on the right track. All these theories about "the sound of silence" have a decidedly human-centric philosophy at their basis. What if the way the aliens "think" is ,indeed, completely "alien" to us . It throws the whole Fermi-paradox upside-down. We, as predators, are constantly looking for food. If the need for food falls away, either by being able to "eat" from the energies in the universe. or by beings that are of a completely different matter. Spiritual beings ,if You like., the whole ball-game would be up-ended.

I firmly believe it is our own limited understanding of "life" that's hampering our tries to discover life, let alone intelligent(by OUR defenitions!)life. Fermi unwittingly dumbefied the definition of life. It does not mean that it is a wrong thing to ask, but our own minds hinder us tremendously in thinking about "life" , being bound by the limits of our own brain-functions .

Many science-fiction writers have attempted to write about totally different philosophies , ways of looking at things, yet always failed, because they were bound by their own -human- intelligence.

I do believe that we are doing ourselves a disservice by getting blinded by some statements. "Paradoxes" are only the proof of our, limited, intelligence. A different way of thinking may wipe paradoxes out on the spot.

Just think of this: Before the Persians, there was no zero in calculus. So ,it was limiting for the thinkers of yore. Yet, someone conceived the "zero" and "hey, Presto!" a whole new world opened for math&calculus.

Think about that when posing the question "Where are they"


And ponder this: We are already capable of stealth-craft, hard to detect, sometimes even impossible. If the more advanced civilizations do not want to be detected, they will not be detected. Where are they?-->Where we cannot detect them. Only one hiccup in a hundred years, the "WOW" signal...They are fallible it seems

[edit on 5/14/2010 by diakrite]

Originally posted by D.Wolf
Planets out there might be missing a crucial element to grow life beyond a certain stage of development. Something the Earth has but isn't very likely to occur a lot.

The moon seems to be an important element to habitability and a stable environment on our planet. So in order to answer the question: "how likely are other Earths?", you really have to know the answer to the question: "how likely are other moons?"

With this theory in mind the odds of a universe teeming with intelligent life are downed severely.

How about some evidence?
Andrew D Basiago has breathed martian air,
talked to hominds there,
and seen animals on the surface.

reply to post by lowki

From the vid: I'm here interviewing Andrew D. Basiago who has physically teleported to Mars and also to the past and the future (2013)...

Not long after that ...colorful introduction (I got all the way to: "when I was six years old.") I decided to take a shortcut to the evidence.

The discovery of life on mars (pdf)


Very potent stuff!


(That Martian air.)

The thing is (responding to the OP here, not subsequent posts)...this assumes that interstellar travel is common. I think the jump to interstellar travel would be as monumental as our jump to using electricity... For hundreds and hundreds of years, we used oil lamps for light, and horses for travel...it was this one discovery that made possible everything we take for granted now...

I think Interstellar travel is the same kind of elusive development...and even in a galaxy teeming with life, without this advancement, each would still feel VERY alone... I think Fermi's Paradox requires an awfully large amount of assumptions...

Originally posted by Gazrok
The thing is (responding to the OP here, not subsequent posts)...this assumes that interstellar travel is common. I think the jump to interstellar travel would be as monumental as our jump to using electricity... For hundreds and hundreds of years, we used oil lamps for light, and horses for travel...it was this one discovery that made possible everything we take for granted now...

I think Interstellar travel is the same kind of elusive development...and even in a galaxy teeming with life, without this advancement, each would still feel VERY alone... I think Fermi's Paradox requires an awfully large amount of assumptions...

I'm not all that certain that it makes all that much difference as to whether interstellar travel is or is not readily available. I would tend to think that the crux of the problem is whether or not at some point in the galaxy's 13 billion year lifetime, that at least one civilization managed to develop interstellar capable technology AND furthermore, had the drive to venture out and attempt colonization. The initial reason behind the colonization attempt is unimportant but once a successful colony had been established, then the odds of that civilization avoiding extinction had improved dramatically as would the odds that further attempts at additional colonization would be made.

The way that I look at the Fermi Paradox is that irrespective of whether 1, 10, 1000 or 1 million additional civilizations developed in the 9 billion year gap between the birth of the galaxy and life arising on Earth, all it takes is just ONE civilization to 'go forth and multiply' and overrun the galaxy.
You can bet that if we humans ever get to the stage that we have such technology, then I doubt that there'd be much to stop us from venturing out and grabbing every suitable planet we could lay our hands on ... history alone shows us quite demonstrably that we are an expanionist species and the only thing that's keeping us from doing just that is our lack of suitable technology to support our next big expansionist wave.

Originally posted by Larryman
I read some communication concept that uses modulation of zero-point field, to achieve FTL communications. If ET aliens use that technique, then we would not hear them with SETI. And if their ships use hyperspace for FTL travel, then we would not see them in their voyages.

Spot on, spot on. I didn't bring up the communication issue but here's a scenario. You know that radio waves degrade over time and distance and that our radio waves we have going out into space is essentially noise. So if your a species that has faster than light or have sub light starships, you know that trying to communicate with a ship or another colony that is 15 or 20 light years away is a waste of time and energy. But if you have some form of FTL communication like quantum entanglement or something, we wouldn't be able to register any communication from this society because we wouldn't have the technology to talk to them or even know what they have for communication other than what we use.