Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ...

star and flag for you taur..

Could it be that the reason is the lack of communication that we understand is that its not radio waves , frequency etc.. , is their communication

the search of intelligent life in our own Galaxy is the first focus

or could it be WE are in a total different Physical dimension than the rest of our galaxy as to be protected by the ones that are called our god or gods and what you seen or read from our Ancient past history from literature and paintings and drawings around the world of craft from Heavenly Beings, Ufos ,Orbs ,Foo Fighters that they them selves are from different dimension and can move from one to the other dimension with their high technology that we can not understand at this time .. so from the tales of Myths to possible facts of entering dimension from our Understanding

Could there be a link to dimension travel from our own past experience legends of discovery

1) the Philadelphia Experiment = that was seen in 2 locations at the same time and bodies being fused in parts of the ship


2) Nazi UFO Vril Machines = was accidental as it basically was to be used for time warping to dimension travel but discovered it can be used for a anti gravity flying craft instead

3) Hutchinson Effect = found anti gravity , molecule separation , gravity field effects plus many others

3) the Shiva Star = www.kirtland.af.mil...

This here (below PDF ) Taur or other Mathematical Wizards ... ... might interest you for our own earthen space travel as you a Math man in which in not sure what is plausible for it to work very interesting to say the least !

Propagating Magnetic wave accelerator with the use of a Shiva Star!!!?
for Manned Deep Space Missions Travel!! the ( PMWAC )
www.niac.usra.edu...


sorry im not able to give the exact detail but ill be on this thread more than i need to so please do some searches



[edit on 12-5-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by tauristercus


Flawed for one minor reason:

We consider ourselves advanced, yet we cannot get there...

How should we expect an equally advanced civilization to reach us, assuming our own situation is not unique, but more common?

It's because of a super advanced race that long ago cast away their biological identities yet still remain their instinctual disposition to wipe out any intelligent race they comes across before it can ever become a threat. Darwinian survivalists through strength, they have been cleansing our galaxy of intelligent life every time a new species emerges from the ashes, before they get a chance to evolve. We are mere infants and infants leave no foot prints, but one day we will and the Xul will come!


That is the answer to the Fermi Paradox... according to Ian Douglas the Science
Fiction writer. 9 books but very entertaining, among my favorite.

Very thought provoking, thanks Op.
For us to find and recognize another intelligent life form we would need to find beings that are of similar form and in the same light spectrum to us.
That would mean they would have to come from a planet of similar composition and have evolved at the same speed as ourselves.
If we as a species are evolving into a lighter density and we are a younger planet in the universe then maybe these beings have already evolved into a higher octave and we are yet to reach a level which we can communicate with them.
It seems strange that we have so many different forms of life on this planet yet its the only planet that is inhabited.
I look up at the universe at night and see all those stars and think Id be very ignorant to believe we are the only lifeform in the universe.

Originally posted by tauristercus

I'm not sure but I think some of you may be missing the crux of the Fermi Paradox. It's NOT about whether extraterrestrials have noticed us yet OR whether they've already visited Earth ... it's actually asking the question that if the galaxy has been around for approximately 13 billion years and life on Earth only started about 4 billion years ago AND as many scientists are now beginning to suspect that life WILL evolve given even the slightest encouragement ... then whats happened to all those potential thousands and millions of alien species that could have evolved technological civilizations billions of years ago ? Why do we not see the galaxy absolutely teeming with life ?

Actually I do understand fully. Perhaps I could have written what I said clearer.

The Galaxy is such a large place, we as occupants of this tiny speck of dust called Earth have trouble comprehending it.

The Galaxy may well be "teaming with life". How would we know that now let alone when the Fermi Paradox was suggested? With the nearest location that may have intelligent life anywhere from tens to millions of light years distant, we can not say one way or the other what exists in this Galaxy let alone the Universe. It is only our conceit that would make us believe that we could.

Did Fermi actually believe that any intelligent life would even use communications technology we are familiar with? Did he assume that we would be able to detect the technology they do use? That is what I mean by conceit.

Even if their are thousands of intelligent forms of life throughout the Galaxy, how would you assume they would automatically detect us, or we them, among the nearly incalculable number of planetary bodies in just this Galaxy? They could easily exist and still not be aware of our presence. The Galaxy could be a hotbed of intelligent life and we would never know it and they would never happen upon us.

Any intelligent life would also face the vast distances between us and the natural laws we barely understand, if we understand them at all. Even if they could travel fast enough to even think of exploring the Galaxy, that still leaves a vast area to explore and without advance knowledge of our presence?

This "Paradox" seems poorly thought out to me and it fails to factor in too many variables. I'm surprised anyone pays it any mind, it is so flawed.

If one of these theoretical advanced races were out searching, what exactly would lead them to us? What signpost in the Heavens would tell them Earth and Humans this way? If we can't detect their communications because we have not even thought of the methods they use yet, how would we be aware of them, even if they rivaled the number of stars?

You simply can not ask what's happened to them, if you have no way to even detect them. Science always acts as if they have all the answers when in fact science is in its infancy and may be so for centuries to come. This from Fermi suggest to me the typical inability by arrogant scientists to say, "I don't know". Add to this the fact he made such a statement 60 years ago and you may find some religious overtones to his clearly flawed "Paradox".



[edit on 5/12/2010 by Blaine91555]

After reading your post S+F btw, I'm of and have always been of the mind that its a case of 4 and 5 with a hint of 3.
They are far more advanced than the human species and the signals we've been sending out are hardly encouraging....WWI,WWII, Cold War, Vietnam, Cuban Missile Crisis, Falklands War, Gulf Wars and WTC to name but a few. Although it may seem to many people that we have had no contact, the countless UFO footage and abduction tales says otherwise.
Protecting Us From Ourselves
IMO I think we are being protected from our own stupidity.
Lets take cattle mutilation....some say experiments, others say harvesting. There is another option I feel has not been addressed......you abduct a female and a male of the species, make a hybrid but realise you need to feed it?????? You go down to the planet and take out the working end of the primary food source, cattle..... find out how it works then you have food for your abducties etc etc.
To summarise I think its a case of 4/5/3 but with enough responsibility to help the poor backward planet from killing each other or save them from a planetary disaster. As for previous extinction events are they merely clearing the way for our species that was seeded by ET's.
It has been proposed that if we were around in the mesezoic/Triasic then humans would have been lizard bait. So Permian extinction event was to make way for the ET's personal project Human Beings and can explain alot of the reported contacts through the centuries....Sumarian's, Mayan's and Kiev to name but a few. To make sure their experiment develops the way they have planned. For all we know we could be the best parts of every being in the universe on a petri dish called Earth.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by DreamerOracle]

Maybe they have visit, but as an apparently "advanced species" we are. Maybe the intelligent thing was to split the species by having elite and then workers. We being here are the sheep / workers. While the elite do there contact with the higher civilizations and trade technology and travel through stargates. If we knew what was happening, we wouldn't work, they wouldn't get resources??
Something like that.

Our attempt at civilization is a joke. Art is a waste, money is a waste, culture is a waste. We should only continuously studying new technology and living in a resource based society. Money is enslavement at this stage we have the technology to go the next step.

reply to post by tauristercus


Dear tauristercus

If their method of communication is using a method that we have yet to discover we are not ever going to know what they are doing until we discover it.

Their starships could be zipping between different solar systems and galaxies and we just would not know.

Anyway back in about 1977 we did receive a signal it was called at the time the WOW signal.

As for picking up their engineering projects just how could we possibly do that at this time, the only planets we have found with our telescopes so far have been Jupiter size. So if we can’t find the planet how can we find the engineering project.

This will come.

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Intelligent life is abundant and all around you but with your primitive physics and constipated scientific approach; you are still to stupid to recognize it.

You have only been out of the trees for a short time in the grand scheme of things.

One of your very perceptive authors, a Mr. Clark said something to the effect that
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Look there!

So I take it your "In Like Flint". Why not just give us all a tour of the magic show and reveal the tricks instead of giving us the circle jerk?

You can make a case out of nothing and even have mathematical results telling us what is supposed to be out there.

But the experience of those who have seen them already tells us their way of travel is not possible to understand by means of distance or speed.

One example is the observations made by well trained jet pilots.Their stories tells us that these unknown can go from one point to antoher without moving.

I have my experiences telling me there are different crafts already. From those who seem to make patterns in the sky by moving from point to point, the invisible lights appearing out of nowhere just to dissolve again.

One question i ask myself is what reality do they have. Does it have to be like us?

reply to post by tauristercus


Let me ask you this. Do you give a kid a gun? Do you let mentally-handicapped people operate machinary? We are children in the grand scheme of existence, so assuming that your an advanced alien race are you going to want to give stuff to entities that can't handle it? or understand how it works? I think that aliens want us to figure it out for ourselves, evolve at the speed we need to evolve at; while I'm sure some may be mettling around on earth somewhere, for the most part though that we simply are just too violent and arrogant to be around right now...and we don't understand the spiritual side of life which is key(and the first thing we must do) to understand the universe and operate in it, imo.

reply to post by tauristercus


double post sowwy

[edit on 12-5-2010 by agentofchaos]

To think we are the only ones in the universe is to see an ant hill and say there is nothing else out there, no birds, bugs, humans, fish, or anything just an ant hill full of ants.

How do you know they are not sending us signals?

Maybe we have not found a way to see or read the signals yet!

To think we know everything is ignorant.

I believe that there are space aliens out there. (I used the word space because we already know that there are plenty of illegal aliens here in America).

Using illegal aliens makes me want every American to know that you and I should and must support AZ illegal alien law.

Perhaps the very definition of "advanced" changes as a race elevates.
If a race mastered Time and Space, would they stop there, and stagnate? Even humans, in our infancy, are semi-aware of the possibility of other realms.

We murmur about multiverses, other dimensions, Heavens and Hells etc. Now, think about the possibility that, as we advance and learn, we will probably discover other possibilities of existence.
For now, I think the term "Possibilities of Existence" is fairly apt, because I would not want to anchor these possibilities to any specific type. For instance, right now, we work with the Physical and Metaphysical. Who knows what other doors will appear to a truly ancient race.

The reason I delved into this direction, is to touch upon the possibilities that maybe there are simply other places to go!

Did that make sense?

To the OP-- Great thread, you got me to log in and post on here for the first time in ages.

Haven't paged through all the replies, so I apologize if any of my thoughts have already been posted.

You may have alluded to this earlier, but my understanding is the location of our solar system is much like a backwater section of the galaxy, we may be so far off the beaten track that no one has thought to look out here yet.

As far as communication at faster then light speed, there are already plenty of hints from the edges of quantum mechanics--particle/wave theory-- that show that photons may communicate instantly over vast distances--that would be my guess for the direction to investigate for the eventual "next step" in long distance communications.

The worrying possibility in favor of the "We are Alone" faction is the lack of machine colonization. But perhaps we don't want to be found by any type of Von Neumann devices, just like in so many great SF stories, these devices may have "evolved" beyond their original maker's intent, perhaps like "the Borg", they could mean the end of our own civilization. And perhaps that is what has occurred in our own galaxy, all life wiped out by machine life--like Fred Saberhagens' The Bezerkers...

I tend towards the "Singularity" idea you posted, lots of great SF points to this idea as well, they may know about us, but the policy is big time hands off, until we figure out a few things for ourselves.

Without doubt, we must start with colonizing our own solar system, not just with terraforming Mars and the moon, but technology like huge Dyson Globes in L5 orbit and other space based habitats, we need this just to ensure our species can survive catastrophic events like asteroid impacts on Earth.

I also think we may not understand the full implications of interstellar travel, in fact I have a feeling we will need to understand dark matter and dark energy to be able to achieve true interstellar space flight.

I truly believe, our species, numerous faults and all, WILL eventually achieve interstellar travel. Will we find a Singularity? Perhaps, but its likely we can't even really imagine what a real super advanced alien civilization must be like...

:

[edit on 5/12/2010 by NeonKnight]

No.12. has been completely ignored.

No.12 is that we are all alone because we are created beings in a created and expanding universe which explains it all although no one would like to consider it because if there were a creator then we have a responsibility that means we can't serve ourselves....and who wants to lose control of ones own destiny?

Of course, it's too late, as if you don't believe the above and it's true, then you already have lost control of the destiny you'd prefer if the truth were siddenly revealed.

Now we have another paradox!

Sorry if someone already gave this explanation, but I am not going to read that many posts right now.

Sri Yuktewar, the Hindu Astrologer who wrote the book, "The Holy Science," explained that civilization evolves cyclically, not linearly, as western thought presupposes.

He proposed that every approximate 24,000 years (perhaps this is the 26,000 year precession of the equinox), our solar system moves closer to, and then farther away from, the great central sun: the center of our galaxy.
The closeness to the powerful vibrations given of by this "central sun" has profound influence on the human brain/psyche.

During these thousands of years, Earth passes through four distinct ages or "Yugas":

1. The dark Kali Yuga , in which humankind is rather dimwitted and unenlightened which was most recently from about 500 AD until about 1700 AD (1200 years total);

2. The technological Dwapara Yuga, in which humankind learns about electricity, and other scientific advances, and learns to control space; we are currently in this age, and it will last 2400 years from about 1700 to 4100 AD;

3. The power of the mind Treta Yuga, in which humankind vastly expands its mind power and learns to control time; things such as telepathy become commonplace; this age will last about 3600 years from about 4100 AD to 7700 AD;

4. The spiritual Satya Yuga, in which humankind will be able to commune with God. This last age will last about 4800 years on the upswing.

But then there will be a descending Satya Yuga in which the next 4800 years will creep backwards toward Treta Yuga; then the next 3600 years will creep backward toward Dwapara, and so on the cycle repeats itself until humankind is in the dark ages of the Kali Yuga again!

In the higher Dwapara Yuga, and the Treta Yuga, I would assume humankind easily has amazing UFO technology. If the aliens that visit us now are also subject to similar evolutionary cycles, we might be the ones in our UFOs visiting them while they are less advanced!

SO THE BIG POINT THAT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT, YES, CIVILIZATIONS ARE NOT LONG-LIVED, ACCORDING TO SRI YUKTESWAR. CIVILIZATIONS CYCLICALLY GO UP AND DOWN. AND WE TOO HAVE BEEN HIGHLY ADVANCED HERE ON EARTH IN THE PAST (Atlantis, Lemuria, Vimanas, etc.), AND WE SHALL BE ADVANCED AGAIN IN THE FUTURE.

(And, as a side note concerning lack of evidence of alien races, I like the analogy of a boy teasing a few ants with a piece of straw at an ant pile. The near sighted ants only see the straw, not the whole boy. The few ants get all excited over the straw. The boy--who is good-natured and does not hurt the ants--gets bored and walks away, tossing the straw a few feet off. The few ants get the others stirred up, but there is no evidence left of the straw, nor the boy. The ants are humans. The boy is an advanced alien race. Gee, why is there no (or hardly any) evidence of aliens?)

Where are they?

They are just observing us. Waiting for our collective consciousness to rise up. As more people "wake up", the more our collective consciousness rise up. In no time, first contact with them will commence.

reply to post by tauristercus


5. Why are they so well advanced. This is the worse assumption ( which I was taught to be logical, too ) that I have ever heard in my life. Did anyone ever think that maybe space travel is really easy? Maybe there's a common element which naturally propels crafts in motion at exponential rate, meaning faster and faster, of course.

And maybe we are kept here in secret because no one " takes kindly to our kind round hya!" Like maybe ET's are a bunch of space hill billy's who are intolerant to other species/races, and so it's our leaders ( not obama, think man behind the curtain types ) job to make sure we don't leak out into the galaxy. Sort of like we're the original aussies of te solar system.

Nothing points to the fact that our civilzation, as a whole, wishes to find out if we're living on the back of a giant, we being the fleas. So little interests is shown in space that I have given up speaking to people about it bacuse most people think space is a waste of time and resources when we could be spending more on defense and failed social programs. This disinterest in space was created by Nasa, intentional or not, and we are all slaves.

So, just because we have not discovered something, doesn't mean that it takes a lot of skill to make it. For example, the mayan's supposedly didn't have the wheel, yet were masters of tracking the heavens. Someone with the invention of the wheel could have touted artillery to the Mayan's and annaliate them. Yet, perhaps if the Mayans had more time, they could have discovered more about time, then time clocks, then blah blah and so on.

My point is that we shouldn't assume that aliens are "way far advanced" just because they fly around in fancy craft, supposedly of course.

We could do it too if the general population sparked an interest in it. Bet me,

My opinion is that the only civilizations who ever get to the point of being able to exponentially increase their populations across the stars are the ones who don't. As in they are highly transcendent (since they would have obtained the knowledge of the secrets of the universe (that we gained and lost, somewhat) after existing so long). Just my opinion, though.

Edit: (5) Except that I don't think they ignore us, I think they just don't contact us much if they ever did at all.

[edit on 5/12/10 by MoothyKnight]