La Raza Unida - insight from one of 'la raza'

there are a lot of misconceptions of what La Raza Unida is (let's make no doubt, people are using the grammar of Spanish to make 'la raza' sound like 'Mexicans first'. This is a patent untruth, and comes from viewing the intricate politics of race in Mexican and Mexican-American society through a western European lens. This is supposed to be a thumbnail explanation of something very complicated - mainly because this is not rooted in a US-centric worldview, but a Native worldview.

First, let's start with the name 'la raza'. It refers to the Mestizo aspects of being Mexican. As a Mestizo, in the southwestern US states there two cultural problems. First, we (I am included in this, as I am mestizo) are too American for our cousins to the south , and too Mexican for the folks north of the border, so we occupy a displaced position in both Mexican and American societies - neither fish, nor fowl.
In America, we are poor workers that look different, have funny accents and bring down neighborhoods with large families and cars we are too poor to have a mechanic service. Thus, we are excluded from American society. In Mexico, we are regarded as rich and spoiled, derogatorily called 'pochos' for being north of the border. "Pocho" means to be a wanna-be, to only look like Mexican without having the 'real thing.' The word itself describes something rotten, like fruit gone bad on the inside.
Thus, we have developed our own sense of belonging - we are 'the people' - not 'the race' although that would be a scholastic translation - and the term is specfic to the mestizo Spaniard/Native blend that characterizes the stereotypical Mexican here - dark hair, dark eyes, some Native characteristics.

Second - lets start with the rumors to what La Raza Unida is about - El Partido de La Raza Unida (The Party of the United People) is a political party that was started with the intent to address inherent inequalities in Texas, specifically in the towns of Lubbock and Cotulla, Texas. Other, similar groups started up, some with more racist overtones in stride with The Black Panther Party and other minority-centric parties. These groups all met in 1972 and united under the common cause of Chicano advancement. In this, we are no more racist than the NAACP or United Negro College Fund. We simply are moving to represent ourselves and our interests in the political arena. Some extreme elements of La Raza Unida are interested in seceding from the US and establishing their own homeland in the Southwest, but they are treated about as seriously as the Texas secessionists are - held at arms length but not completely disavowed because that, too, is part of the heritage of being Mestizo in the US.

Third - open borders. The position of La Raza Unida is that because of the disenfranchised nature of the Mestizo in both American and Mexican society, that migrant workers should be able to come and go freely in their homelands that we lived in historically, regardless of the arbitrary border. This is an outgrowth of feeling lost in the nations that we are citizens of - how many have been under the knee of a cop for having a new car that the cop was *sure* you stole - because everyone knows Mexicans clean floors and houses and can't afford new stuff? (Not fake, really happened to me - the excuse was I was 'a suspect fitting the description') For us, whose roots are in both Mexico and America, we feel torn between the two.

This is just a part of an extremely complex viewpoint. I am Mestizo, part of 'la raza'. Rather thn watch a bunch of people who think they understand what 'la raza unida' is about, I'd rather talk about what La Raza Unida is about - a fight for fairer wages, better housing , fair housing acts, and the right to be who we are without being regarded as second-class.

Discussion opens eyes - I look forward to the good and inflammatory stuff that makes ATS so fun.

Ok. I believe everything you just said.
I really do.

here is what I do not get.

Why are the Mexicans that are not a part of La Raza(you know, the ones who make fun of you"Pochos") using La Raza as a political tool to achieve their own means?
Now I know you said La raza wants "Open Borders", but I do not hear any good case that they have shown us to prove WHY they should be able to get free access to a country that is not theirs, and WHY we(the US) have to jeopardize OUR border security because our neighbors to the south dont have their sh!t together?
Did I just answer my own question? Maybe I did. You tell me.

And please dont take this as an attack. You wanted to debate, Im here to do just that.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by MagoSA
there are a lot of misconceptions of what La Raza Unida is

I don't misconceive.

You're a race based, national socialist movement opposed to imperialism and capitalism and you want a global revolution of workers.

The only one misconceiving here is you. Get a swastika out, start flying a hammer and sickle and quit lying to yourself about what you are.

I tend to knee-jerk at mention of La Raza after 17 years in California. Motto: "Por la raza todo, por no la raza nada". For the race all, for those not of the race nothing.

La Raza in CA has consistently been linked to MeCHa which advocates the idea of reconquista and Atzlan. With the unmitigated illegal immigration, high birth rates and lack of verifying citizenship at the polls, I think they'll eventually achieve reconquista. Which is one of the many reasons I got the heck of that state.

Edit to mention: If I started an organization called "The Race", limited membership to western European descent and demanded politicians pander to us, I'd probably end up being called a lot of names and it wouldn't be allowed to stand.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by Mountainmeg]

i read that entire post, but i still dont really understand what your trying to achieve?

secession? what do you mean? are you speaking of the states or just "la raza" members? does that imply all of "La raza" are legal citizens? because to secede from a union you have to first be part of that union. if all of "la raza" are citizens why are they supporting something illegal? if they wanted to help might it be better to focus efforts on doing things the right way?

better housing? build yourself a better house, or higher a better contractor. you could throw any american in that boat.

better wages? alot of americans dont even have a job. join the club.

Fair housing acts? oh so your liberals, shoulda just said that from the get go.

open borders? first, im not sure what the cop/stolen car analogy has to do with open borders. but in any case, nobody in "La raza" was even close to being alive during the time when Mestizos occupied and held the states in question under mexican rule. when mexico held it, these "Mestizos" were as much part of the nation of mexico as any other, and when the land was purchased, they were expected to keep their end of the deal. now that time has passed and generations have been born, all the sudden the deal is off? and your entitled to it? YOU ARE ENTITLED TO IT! but on Americas terms. America holds the receipt and Mexico holds the $$$$. so with all due respect, apply for citizenship and go live there. i dont see what the problem is?that or try to buy it back.

if i sell my house i cant just go walk up in it 7 years later because i feel like it. so i would think even supporting a notion like that is ridiculous and discredits them.

maybe i am just confused, if i am forgive me. But from your description this "political party" sounds more like a Racially exclusive Democratic party...?

reply to post by MagoSA


Sorry to burst you bubble my friend but do you know who is financing La Raza? and why is call a political tool.

The same fat rats that are keeping immigrant workers slave workers are the ones that finance la Raza movement.

Your group name is been used by big corporate money to keep illegals victimized, and divided because it fills their purposes. . .

Wake up and see what big corporate greed is doing to your movement.

Quote from MagoSA:

"Third - open borders. The position of La Raza Unida is that because of the disenfranchised nature of the Mestizo in both American and Mexican society, that migrant workers should be able to come and go freely in their homelands that we lived in historically, regardless of the arbitrary border."


Response:
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That is the Aztlan plan, and its concepts violate the rights of American citizens in the states who would be effected.
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From a site: What is Aztlan, Raza and Mecha?

www.mayorno.com...

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And posting videos on the aztlan.net site under the title:

"What Gringos Fear Most"

www.aztlan.net...
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does not help your cause with reference to the illegal immigration issue. That aztlan.net site is designed to raise emotions and anger vs. peace and harmony which you claim (or imply) you are seeking for your people.










[edit on 11-5-2010 by manta78]

reply to post by MagoSA


First error: La Raza translates as "the race", not "the people".

second line

After reading your piece and going to look at the websites, I can say that on the surface your organization has very nobel goals, however, here is the problems I have.
I am all for civil rights and equal justice for all citizens of the United States. I too know of the sting of discrimination on the part of the state and the public. But I do not carry or admire mass murders or the violation of any law of the country. I still believe in this country and will never support an open boarder that is just one sided. I have seen first hand what happens to citizens of the United States of America when they go down to Mexico to live and it was not pretty, in short they were kicked out of their homes, and sent back to the United States of America with no compensation on the part of the Mexican government, then they changed the laws to prevent such from happening again. When I see that in a protest something being thrown at law enforcement officers or violence, or flags of Che, or the words of Castro being used as justification, or the flag of another nation, it does not garner my support or any who I know, rather it fills us with disgust and contempt. It states that you are not here for the country, have no loyalty and thus why should we even consider giving you any support on any level? If the protests were peaceful, the American Flags were flown, and the ideas that you espoused were support for the country and want to follow the laws, then I would be more inclined to give support as would others, cause then it is a matter of equal justice. Your group, as nobel as it may seem, is only seeking social justice, and have too close ties to those who would endanger other people who are not hispanic. It may seem peaceful on the surface, but it reeks of racism and violence on the underside. The boarders exist to protect both countries, and to prevent social faux pas from occuring, it marks where the laws of one country starts and another ends. Tell me, as you are for open boarders, would it matter if one of your immediate realitives, mother, father, brother, sisiter, spouse, child, got sick from catching something commicable like tb, or the flu? Would it be alright if they got killed cause the surprised someone who came in the middle of the night, or raped, or kidnapped? Would it matter if your idenity and credit were destroyed cause someone who violated the laws of the country stole it to get a better job while you are working for minimum wage or you were out of work and could not get a job? The issues and problems that face ilegale immigration are great, but what the group La Raza Unida and their affiliates are something the country can not afford at this time, nor should it be considered. Tell me if you get your way, what is to stop every other nationality in the world from demanding the exact same thing?

reply to post by Common Good


why do non-mestizos use 'la raza' for their own ends? Probably the same as why the tea party gets consistently linked to the worst of the extremists - after all, sane voices are not as sexy as upset and borderline psycho voices.

La Raza Unida posits open borders so all the people whose homeland are divided by the border between mexico and the US can use their homeland freely. Personally, I think that this is a pipe dream at best.

I respect your questions. You are right, though, that open borders does jeopardize US interests... often time national interests don't intersect with a group's interest. Native Americans can probably empathize with that.

Thanks for asking.

reply to post by belial259


We are a groups that represents a minority who has been marginalized in two cultures. we are anti-imperialist and anti-colonialist. We were founded by marxist ideals but have expanded beyond that to a more inclusive ideology.

we do not support the conquering of any people for the temporary gain of another group - aggression doesn't equal superiority. A pit bull can kill a person, but it doesn't make the dog any more than a dog.

[edit on 11/5/10 by MagoSA]

reply to post by Mountainmeg


regrettably, "por la raza todo..." has been the motto of a group who have become tired of trying to work within American culture to change it.

Every revolution demands a war cry - i don't buy into this concept, as do others of La Raza Unida.

And, please refer to us by our correct name - its La Raza Unida - the people united.

reply to post by indianajoe77


You refer to proper Spanish. Most of us here in the South understand Tex-Mex and Calo, in both dialects "la raza" refers specifically to the Mestizo.

thank you for contributing anyway. By clearing up misunderstandings, we understand more.

This brings up a second point - Tex-Mex, Calo, and the other versions of spanish spoken in the border lands are NOT proper Spanish - many words have shifted meaning, and there are words that are introduced from Nahuatl and other indigenous cultures. this is what we understand and speak, and I restate my premise - 'la raza' in this context refers to 'the people'.

Well, that's odd.
You claim to defend Mexican heritage, although you carry a Brazilian cultural theme on your sig.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
After reading your piece and going to look at the websites, I can say that on the surface your organization has very nobel goals, however, here is the problems I have.
I am all for civil rights and equal justice for all citizens of the United States. I too know of the sting of discrimination on the part of the state and the public. But I do not carry or admire mass murders or the violation of any law of the country. I still believe in this country and will never support an open boarder that is just one sided. I have seen first hand what happens to citizens of the United States of America when they go down to Mexico to live and it was not pretty, in short they were kicked out of their homes, and sent back to the United States of America with no compensation on the part of the Mexican government, then they changed the laws to prevent such from happening again.

No doubt. I spend many a summer working in Mexico as part of my church outreach, and we have seen many things the Mexican natives do to Americans. Its a combination of resentment and sheer spite. I do agree that there is abuse and suffering for the most part. I can only say is that is shameful, and there is no excuse.

When I see that in a protest something being thrown at law enforcement officers or violence, or flags of Che, or the words of Castro being used as justification, or the flag of another nation, it does not garner my support or any who I know, rather it fills us with disgust and contempt. It states that you are not here for the country, have no loyalty and thus why should we even consider giving you any support on any level?

I understand this - do you feel the same about bagpipes on police parades - its a readily identifiable emblem of another nation, embedded in your police force. I submit to you that those philosophies of Che Guevara, Castro, and Chavez do what others who have tried to speak for the Chicano communities hasn't done - champion our interests.

If the protests were peaceful, the American Flags were flown, and the ideas that you espoused were support for the country and want to follow the laws, then I would be more inclined to give support as would others, cause then it is a matter of equal justice. Your group, as nobel as it may seem, is only seeking social justice, and have too close ties to those who would endanger other people who are not hispanic. It may seem peaceful on the surface, but it reeks of racism and violence on the underside.

some of those radicals think that establishing Aztlan makes them kings already. We do not all subscribe to this idea. Very few, do. Unfortunately, those idiots make great TV.

The boarders exist to protect both countries, and to prevent social faux pas from occuring, it marks where the laws of one country starts and another ends. Tell me, as you are for open boarders, would it matter if one of your immediate realitives, mother, father, brother, sisiter, spouse, child, got sick from catching something commicable like tb, or the flu? Would it be alright if they got killed cause the surprised someone who came in the middle of the night, or raped, or kidnapped? Would it matter if your idenity and credit were destroyed cause someone who violated the laws of the country stole it to get a better job while you are working for minimum wage or you were out of work and could not get a job?

This dangers exist for me already. I am Chicano with a master's degree living in the barrio still. I teach, and work every day to teach others to reach for stars.

The issues and problems that face ilegale immigration are great, but what the group La Raza Unida and their affiliates are something the country can not afford at this time, nor should it be considered. Tell me if you get your way, what is to stop every other nationality

Our people's ancestors - many of us have N.A. roots.

reply to post by Headpool


I like to play capoeira - its not that far of a reach, since capoeira was a way of subverting the cultural hold of Europeans on the Afro-Brazilian population.

Everyone also needs a pasttime.


Edit:
Tell me - do you just enjoy your regional cuisine, or do you like Chinese, Indian, German, or Italian? I have a wide palette of flavors I like.

Don't you find that some identities restrict a person? I find it interesting - my wife's friend is a tea party member, and we can have some really interesting discussions without fighting.

[edit on 11/5/10 by MagoSA]

Haha, I didn't actually ask out of restriction, but out of curiosity.

I'm very familiar with capoeira and was surprised to see your interest in the subject.

I recommend you watch a brazilian movie called "Besouro".

Anyway, while I don't agree with changing any laws or borders, etc., I do think there should be a mutual respect for people's heritage, which some people here doesn't seem to get.

And I'll leave it at that, since I got fed up with trying to change the Hispanic-aimed racism around ATS and won't bother with those guys anymore.

There may be some Hispanic-aimed racism at ats, but I think you are mis-interpreting a large amount of angst over illigal-immigration (which has absolutely nothing to do with racism) as racism.

All the topics lately you are referring to have been mostly about illegal-immigration. The leftist-media and types like you will spin it as racism however.

my only question is.
are all these thoughts only a one way street for latinos.
for instance, open borders, will i be able to head south, get a job, say running heavy equipment, or is this whole idea only for the benefit of yourselves?