Pope Benedict to deliver 'intense' message during Fatima visit

reply to post by Silver Shadow



I don't think this will be the case.

You should have a look at Tolstoy's 'The Kingdom of God is within You'.

Originally posted by LestatG
Could be an intersting few days. For me I am interested in whether the Pope decides to release the third secret of Fatima. This would be a huge distraction to some people.
edit - s&f to see what happens!

[edit on 11/5/2010 by LestatG]

Thats exactly what im talking about to say the least. Noticed how also, the UK elections have been dragged out? Also theres scheduled British Airways strikes? Nothing like keeping everyone grounded, also the SA world cup round the corner?
Could be something major, could be nothing guess we`ll see?

Well he is speaking now so lets see, the BBC have mentioned the secrets of Fatima but they are focusing on the peadophile and economic problems.

I dont think the message is going to be all that it's cracked up to be... Just media hype. He will just spew what people need to hear.

Start of his commentary:


The pope today declared the sex abuse scandal shaking Catholicism was "the greatest persecution of the church," but said it was born from sins inside the church, not outside. The pope today declared the sex abuse scandal shaking Catholicism was "the greatest persecution of the church," but said it was born from sins inside the church, not outside.

He called for profound purification and penance within the church as well as pardon and justice.

In some of his strongest comments to date, he said the Roman Catholic Church had always suffered from attacks from within but that "today we see it in a truly terrifying way."

He made the comments on his plane on the way to his Portuguese visit.

Existing thread on this issue here:

Pope to Deliver an 'Intense Message' at Fatima


It got dumped in BTS because some jerk-off derailed the thread and turned it into a discussion about Papal Infallibility.

[edit on 5/11/10 by FortAnthem]

Compare these two comments of June 2000 and May 2010:

Past Tense: In Cardinal Ratzinger's commentary of the third secret of June 26, 2000:
www.vatican.va...
"...And so we come to the final question: What is the meaning of the “secret” of Fatima as a whole? What does it say to us? First of all we must affirm with Cardinal Sodano: '... the events to which the third part of the ‘secret' of Fatima refers now seem part of the past'. Insofar as individual events are described, they belong to the past."


NOT Past Tense!!: May 11th 2010 remark from Pope BXVI about the third Secret on his flight to Portugal:
www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org...
"...Only in the passage of time is the true depth, that was clothed in this vision, revealed to us, only then is it possible for concrete people. Here too, beyond this great vision of the suffering Pope, which we can initially circumscribe to John Paul II, other realities are indicated which over time will develop and become clear."

He's going to dance a ragtime jig and piss off even more people.

Otherwise, I just see more covering up of the church's crimes.

The choice of venue itself is intriguing, as for the third message already being released, I have never thought the real message was delivered, not if the stories of the reaction of the Pope at the time are true.

IMO the message they released was used to quell something which would hurt the Vatican, they can deny it all they want, many people believe the true message is still a secret, whether or not he is going to admit it or not and offer up the real deal, world that be to scare those moving away from the church right back into the hands of the Vatican?

I have total respect for all faiths meaning people have the right to Worship as they want, it's all the same God, the Vatican is full of History that has done more to start wars than any Government that ever existed, in fact for Centuries Royalty in many Countries couldn't do anything without the blessing of the Pope because of fear of the consequences.

The Vatican has never been in as much danger of being destroyed as it is right now disagree if you want to but it's the truth.

Back to his choice of Venue, wouldn't it be ironic if all of a sudden a Miracle of some kind just happened to come about? the Pope should have never tried to cover up the abuses being carried out by it's messengers of God, and every day more and more information is coming out with people coming forward.

To survive IMO the Vatican need to Modernise, to allow Priest to marry, to allow Contraception, to finally come clean on the atrocities carried out in their name, they are now in the sights of every journalist who can see the cash signs in their eyes, anything short of a complete clean of house is just going to get worse for them, its already ripping the hearts out of the devout Catholics, I had a neighbour several weeks ago, A little old lady trying to convince me all the people who had been abused had made it all up, even though the church themselves have admitted it was true, next it will be Nuns coming forward with similar stories, its only their devotion to God that is keeping them quiet, think about who they are married to in the eyes of the Vatican.

I am not trying to spread anything but an opinion, I have the greatest respect for all faiths (DC10 delivery ships not included) but for any faith to truly deliver a message of Love and Devotion, it has to tell the truth, otherwise it is not worth the message delivered, they allowed the abuse of Children and tried to cover it up, the abusers aside, who is responsible for that? an apology for all those who died under their orders would be a start, if the Vatican was not a Nation in itself, the place would be invaded by investigators looking for evidence.

reply to post by Phantomfire707



I have read the entire passage regarding the response to the Fatima question. All they are saying now is , that on reflection we probably could relate the current mess the church is in to the third secret. And that the church has suffered and will suffer until the end of time. Basically the good old catholic belief that we are on this planet to suffer.

People who are still awaiting some mind-blowing , jaw-dropping true third secret still to be revealed are living in a fantasy world. This is not a movie. They don't have anything more.

The catholic church is limping around on its last leg. God only knows what crap they will come out with to try and hold onto some power. They have deceived us for long enough and are about to fall. They are no better than snake-oil merchants. The pope is a prime candidate for the anti-christ. He is over an organistaion that preached to the people how to behave and behind closed abused young boys. And I have a right to say this becuase I was a member of their cult for a very long time. Not anymore.

Regarding the 3rd Secret of Fatima, I always remember a particular episode of Art Bell when he had Malachi Martin on. Bell was trying to get out of him what the 3rd Secret was, which Martin claimed to have been privy to (along with numerous other scholars in the church). Martin wouldn't budge, but said it was "the most horrible thing you could imagine."

At one point, a caller called in and said a friend of his was a Jesuit priest who also claimed to have seen the 3rd Secret and said it was that the Anti-Christ would be the last Pope. Though he didn't outright say the guy was right, they way he worded his response did essentially confirm the caller's words in my mind.

Anyway, as an agnostic I don't much believe in prophecies, but I still did find all of that terribly interesting.

If the Pope says anything substantial about the 3rd secret tomorrow, a big "IF"...it should be compared and studied in light of other major previous remarks pertaining to the 3rd Secret. Especially these key comments:

A) 1995, Pope John Paul II:
"And thus we come to May 13, 1981, when I was wounded by gunshots fired in St. Peter's Square. At first I did not pay attention to the fact that the assassination attempt had occurred on the exact anniversary of the day Mary appeared to the three children at Fatima in Portugal and spoke to them the WORDS((!Secret revealed in 2000 was wordless!)) that now, at the END OF THIS ((20th)) CENTURY, SEEM TO BE CLOSE TO THEIR FULFILLMENT" (source: Pope's JPII's own Book "Crossing the Threshold of Hope", pg 221)

B) November 1980, Pope John Paul II. Comments made during a trip to Fulda Germany:
He was asked, "What about the Third Secret of Fatima? Should it not have already been published by 1960?"
Pope John Paul II replied: "Given the seriousness of the contents, my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves.((!Pope here is using the broader term "Communism" as a euphemism for "RUSSIA"!))
The Pope continues: "On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this: if there is a message in which it is written that the oceans will flood whole areas of the earth, and that from one moment to the next millions of people will perish, truly the publication of such a message is no longer something to be so much desired...We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ...With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed."
(source: Many. Verification: A few months ago when reading Cardinal Bertone's 2007 book "the Last Secret of Fatima" I discovered that Cardinal Bertone(another member of the Fatima team of 2000) had confirmed the Pope's comments as having indeed been spoken. Bertone did so by making the unbelievable claim that the Pope made those severe comments on such a sensitive topic about the Third Secret without having yet bothered to even read the Secret:
--pg 48 of Bertones book: "(question)=> And yet John Paul II, in an address he gave in November 1980 in Fulda, Germany,...These words are enough to make you shrudder...?
(Bertone's answer)=> There's no reason to suppose that Cardinal Ratzinger thought John Paul II's words in Fulda indicate any knowledge of the Third Secret on the pontiff's part. There's no difficulty in assuming that John Paul II delivered the lines you cited without having read Lucia's text. He was simply taking stock of the general situation of the Church and reviewing the problems existing at that particular point in time."

-It's simply implausible to think that Pope John Paul II was interested and informed enough to speak such sensational and grave comments about the Third Secret but would not have been interested enough to have already sought to read the biggest religious Secret of the 20th century, which was approximately down the hall from where he slept. Also, Bertone denial is not really a denial. Bertone is MERELY DENYING that Ratzinger's "thoughts" *indicate* that the Pope knew the Secret prior to Fulda. The Question posed to Bertone did not mention anything about Ratzinger's thoughts. Whatever "Ratzinger's thoughts indicate" have never been an issue of the Fulda Germany Comments! Bertone is incredible.
Bertone is also telling us about non-difficult assumptions rather than about facts. It's a carefully constructed non-denial by Cardinal B.

continues...:


[edit on 12-5-2010 by Phantomfire707]

continued:

C) June 2000, Cardinal Ratzinger:
The future Pope writes: "Here it would be appropriate to mention a phrase from the letter which Sister Lucia wrote to the Holy Father on 12 May 1982: “The third part of the ‘secret' refers to Our Lady's words: ‘If not, [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated'”(source: Theological commentary released by the Vatican with the Third Secret)



D) 1985, Interview of Cardinal Ratzinger:
-"I ask: "Cardinal Ratzinger, have you read the so-called 'third secret of Fatima'...?"
-The reply is immediate and dry: "Yes, I have read it."
-Undenied versions are circulating in the world I continue, which describe the contents of the "secret" as disquieting, apocalyptic, as warning of terrible sufferings. John Paul II himself, in his personal visit to Germany, seemed to confirm the undeniable disconcerting contents of the text....Why was it never decided to make it public, if only to counter rash speculation?
-"If this decision has not yet been made", he answers, "it is not because the Popes want to hide something terrible."
-Then there is "something terrible" in Sister Lucia's manuscript, I insist?
-"If that were so", he replies, avoiding going further, "that after all would only confirm the part of the message of Fatima already known. A stern warning has been launched from that place that is directed against the prevailing frivolity, a summons to the seriousness of life, of history, to the perils that threaten humanity. It is that which Jesus himself recalls very frequently: '...Unless you repent you will all perish...'(Lk 13:3)...to publish the 'third secret' would mean exposing the Church to the danger of sensationalism, exploitation of the content."
-Perhaps also political implications, I venture, since it seems that here, also, as in the two other "secrets," Russia is mentioned? At this point however, the Cardinal declares that he is not in a position to go further into the matter and firmly refuses to discuss particulars."" (source: "The Ratzinger Report"(Ratzinger and Vittorio Messori are the authors), pg 109-110)



E) 1970's, Father Alonso, the official archivist of the Fatima documents for 16 years. He has never read the secret but he has seen all the other key documents pertaining to Fatima. Father Alonso writes: "In the period preceding the great triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, terrible things are to happen. These form the content of the third part of the Secret. What are they? If “in Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved”...it can be clearly deduced from this that in other parts of the Church these dogmas are going to become obscure or even lost altogether. Thus it is quite possible that, in this intermediate period which is in question (after 1960 and before the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary), the text makes concrete references to the crisis of the Faith of the Church and to the negligence of the pastors themselves."(source: Many. www.fatima.org... )

continues...:


[edit on 12-5-2010 by Phantomfire707]

continued:

F) 1992, Malachi Martin claims to have read the Secret. In the 1960's Fr. Malachi Martin was in a position to view the Third Secret through his connection(as private secretary) to Cardinal Augustin Bea(confessor of Pope Pius XII, and "highly influential" Vatican official in the 1960s). Malachi Martin writes:
"The actual contents of that "Third Secret" remained by and large a secret until the pontificate of John Paul II. By that time, the contents had been revealed to a sufficient number of people on a private basis, and both John Paul himself and Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger had spoken with sufficient frankness about the contents so that at least the essentials could be reliably outlined. Lucia's single-page written formulation of the "Third Secret" covers three main topics. A Physical chastisement of the nations, involving catastrophes, man-made(war) or natural, on land, on water and in the atmosphere of the globe. A spiritual chastisement(religious persecution), far more frightening and distressing--especially for Roman Catholics--than physical hardship, since it would consist of the disappearance of religious belief, (and) a period of widespread unfaith in many countries. A central function of Russia in the two preceding series of events. In fact, the physical and spiritual chastisements, according to Lucia's letter, are to be gridded on a fateful timetable in which Russia is the ratchet."(source: "The Keys of this Blood," 1992, pg630-631 )


[edit on 12-5-2010 by Phantomfire707]

Well, whatever it is, God in his infinite wisdom has decided to send a secret message to the Catholic heirachy, but not to all of mankind, at least not yet.

If God wanted everyone to know this, it would all be public knowledge by now.

To me that suggests it is either a very stern warning or rebuke to the Church itself, or something else external to the Church that the Church still has power to change or do something about.

Anyhow, God is still in the drivers seat, and all we can do is wait and see what happens next.

FROM TODAYS HOMILY:

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete. Here there takes on new life the plan of God which asks humanity from the beginning: “Where is your brother Abel […] Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground!” (Gen 4:9). Mankind has succeeded in unleashing a cycle of death and terror, but failed in bringing it to an end… In sacred Scripture we often find that God seeks righteous men and women in order to save the city of man and he does the same here, in Fatima, when Our Lady asks: “Do you want to offer yourselves to God, to endure all the sufferings which he will send you, in an act of reparation for the sins by which he is offended and of supplication for the conversion of sinners?” (Memoirs of Sister Lúcia, I, 162)."


I have never been shocked by anything the Vatican has announced. However reading this homily today it looks like he is building to something fairly big maybe? This is getting interesting.

He ends the homily with :

May the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfilment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, to the glory of the Most Holy Trinity.

Cant quite get my head around this. There is a lot of ways to interpret this. I expect some interesting statements to follow.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
Well, whatever it is, God in his infinite wisdom has decided to send a secret message to the Catholic heirachy, but not to all of mankind, at least not yet.

If God wanted everyone to know this, it would all be public knowledge by now.

I cannot agree with you. God does not play games with us, neither the Mother of God "Theotokos". The immediate weeks will prove how far the world has reached to the abyss - when it falls inside.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by Gliese581]

Wheres all the news coverage of this? Whats going on?
www.dailymail.co.uk...
Thats all i could find.

reply to post by jazz10


OK, how can the pope even be there? What about all those paedophile priests?

reply to post by jazz10



There is no big news yet. Still waiting on his 'intense message'.