Raising Taxes On The Rich (Or Well Off). A Matter Of Necessity.

Alright,

I'm so tired of people complaining about taxes being raised on those making more than 250 thousand a year.

Are you all crazy?

Even in the US, an expensive country, you can live QUITE comfortably on that ammount. Like ridiculously comfy.

If you can't, well that's your problem as you obviously live beyond your means.

It should be demanded and expected that people who make more, pay more taxes. It's really quite the simple concept. If done properly, you could have MASSIVE ammounts of money coming in to pay for programs and bring down the overall debt.

Giving a tax cut to the rich should be punishable by death. It simply doesn't make any sense at all. Is there at least one good reason that can be provided for doing such a thing?

I can't think of one.

Don't get me wrong, I make more than 250K a year, so I'm one of those people who should pay more taxes, yet I pay less than the guy making 60K a year.

It makes me sick to my stomach.

What are your thoughts ATS? Why is there this huge problem with understanding such a simple concept?

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Or you could go live in 60's Soviet Russia. Get out of here!



If someone is able to make a lot of money, they should be able to do whatever they want with it. In fact, if it's not taxed, it'll more than likely go right back into the private MUCH faster, and MUCH more pure than being squeezed at by every politician in Washington.

Paul / Ventura 2012

The really sickening thing is this. If it weren't for all the financial banditry of the last ten years, there would be a massive, thriving middle class in the US, and a fair tax rate would provide enough revenue for all the necessary government services and then some. However, now the super-rich are in charge and their boot is on out throats, so all the talk in the world about raising their taxes is pointless, because it will never happen.

The only thing we can do at this point is ride out the crash and try to build a better system next time.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Don't get me wrong, I make more than 250K a year, so I'm one of those people who should pay more taxes, yet I pay less than the guy making 60K a year.

It makes me sick to my stomach.

AHA. Here-in lies the problem. It's your choice to give back to the community. Is should NOT be the law.

Why should I have to pay taxes (I'm the guy who makes ~60k/yr)? Why should you have to pay taxes? Neither of us should have to, and the majority of our incomes would go right back into the private sector, helping out those with less wages (tips, charity, etc.).

It should not be a law to steal from other people's mouths. That should be left up to those who believe in it. If it was a law to shoot your mother at 60yrs of age for 'her/society's benefit' so she doesn't have to deal with old age, and take up resources, would you do it? I should hope not, and it's the same with our taxes. Screw society as a whole. Keep your money in your local economy. If one economy goes down, it should be under their own control, not the government's.

The nanny state mentality make me sick.

[edit on 5/10/2010 by Arcane Demesne]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I think the morally fair thing would be even taxation on all people. A flat tax.. like every person pays 5k, 10k, whatever it takes to balance the budget. I dont understand why you would punish someone just because they made more money.

Originally posted by CowPatty
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I think the morally fair thing would be even taxation on all people. A flat tax.. like every person pays 5k, 10k, whatever it takes to balance the budget. I dont understand why you would punish someone just because they made more money.

It's not a matter of punishment, it's a matter of common sense.

Look the fact of the matter is that in order to run a country, you NEED taxes.

I don't care what people say, you can cry about socialists and communists, but who's gonna pay for the new interstate? Whose going to pay for the new school? Or the new Hospital?

Taxes.

They are a requirement of society.

~Keeper

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Or you could go live in 60's Soviet Russia. Get out of here!

If someone is able to make a lot of money, they should be able to do whatever they want with it. In fact, if it's not taxed, it'll more than likely go right back into the private MUCH faster, and MUCH more pure than being squeezed at by every politician in Washington.

Paul / Ventura 2012

Sure, it's communism all of the sudden eh?

Your wrong about people injecting their cash into the private sector. Rich people hoard their money. I know that, cause I'm rich.

The more you have the more you want. You can't expect people to do the morally correct thing on their own.

You have a responsibility as a citizen to pay your taxes and lift your weight, as stated above, what's going to pay for all the things that you take for granted without taxes?

~Keeper

Originally posted by CowPatty
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I think the morally fair thing would be even taxation on all people. A flat tax.. like every person pays 5k, 10k, whatever it takes to balance the budget. I dont understand why you would punish someone just because they made more money.

Flat taxes don't work either unfortunetly.

It's not fait that the guy making 25K a year, has to pay the same ammount as the guy making 250K a year.

It creates a HUGE wealth gap and the only people who suffer is the middle class.

In order to have a strong economy you NEED a strong middle class. They drive the economy, not the rich or the poor.

~Keeper

I'm no fan of the rich, but I'd like to be rich oneday. However, I never worked for a poor person, only rich people that own the company I work for. Over-taxing the rich will bite us and is biting us in the butt.

Case in point, upper mid-class and rich folks buy big boats...nice fishing and cruising boats. The kind they make in eastern NC in Greenville. Well, the rich have quit buying the big boats for fishing and cruising..fear of excessive taxes, fear of punitive fees from Mr. Obama.

Now, the middle class folks that made the big boats for fishing and cruising are laid off and have had their hours cut back... no boats sold means no boats built... means no more paycheck.

This in turn has impacted the grill and diner across the street... one has closed, the other is up for sale. Now their staff is unemployed. The little convenience down on the corner that served 3 shifts is now closed at night...no 3rd shift, no sales at the store...now a 3rd of their staff is unemployed.

It is a food chain like effect that ripples across the community. Now multiply this in every town, in every state.

Tax the rich means a reduction in revenue for the US Govt. because the tax base declines. In fact, the ones that used to pay taxes are now drawing unemployment, welfare, food stamps, medicare from the govt.

Now you have more money going out than going in... which in liberal theory means we need to raise taxes again... stiffling economic growth and taxable revenue even more.

Happy Taxing.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


A fair example, but like I said, the rich hoard their money.

They aren't going to stop buying things just because of the fear of taxation.

If you have 4 million dollars and have to pay 40K in a taxes a year, that's chump change to you, or at least it should be.

I know I dont' complaing about paying taxes for my boat or my car or anything thing else I buy.

Why?

Cause I can afford that tax, a hundred times over.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Yeah I agree. We must pay taxes for certain things as a minimum, but the taxation should be fair. Each person pays the same amount because they are entitled to/benefit from the same government services.

So we should just take the federal budget, have corps pay their taxes, and then divide the rest equally among every adult in the country. There is nothing more fair than that. Everybody will have the same amount of skin in the game.

If we would roll back the tax cuts for the rich to pre- Bush Jr. levels we could get back on even ground. He cut taxes for the rich and did not pay for the wars and that is why we're in the mess we're in...for the most part. I think we would have been in the black all along if we'd rolled back tax cuts for the rich to pre-Reagan we would have no debt.

"Pay as you go" for your wars, idiots!!!

I don't mind a flat tax as long as there are no loopholes for anyone or any corporations. Corporations should have to pay for 100% of their negative environmental impact.

reply to post by CowPatty


I agree that a fair tax would be ideal, but realistically it just won't work.

Corporate tax however should be VERY high.

There should be NO corporate tax breaks, we should not encourage monopolous enterprises from taking over sectors of the economy.

I'm a bit of a socialist at heart so anybody who wants to call me out on that won't have much a response, I own that.

~Keeper

reply to post by ChrisCrikey


I agree, the Bush era tax cuts severely affected your ability to govern and pay for programs, as well as the wars.

It's sad that nobody made a fuss about it either. I would have figured people would be foaming at the mouth just hearing the words "tax cut" followed by rich people.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Your wrong about people injecting their cash into the private sector. Rich people hoard their money. I know that, cause I'm rich.

The more you have the more you want. You can't expect people to do the morally correct thing on their own.

So you admit to not wanting to help of your own accord? WTF? I just proved my point. If you had the choice of sitting on your cash, or burning it all up...that should be your f***ing choice.

Just because you can't find the courage to give to charity, doesn't mean I can't.

AlreadyGone pretty much hit the nail on the head. It all goes back to the private sector. Whether by the rich buying costly goods that the middle class and poor create, or the invest in other (possibly smaller) companies, or (worst case scenario) they put in a bank. If they put it in a bank, that then allows that bank to give out more loans to us poor and middle class that want to start up a new business, etc. (but you'd like to tax the s**t out of the small business too eh? small businesses EASILY make 250k/yr, but they have to buy equipment, and pay salaries, and pay insurance, etc.).

The whole reason we split from the English crown, was because of taxes. Also, I'm not saying I want complete anarchy, but the fed govt DOES NOT need 5% of everyone's taxes, let alone 50%. I'm all for local taxes (like I said previously, keep it in the local economy).

Hmmm, I guess facts do not matter to the postulation?


There is a class I took in college. It was Business Calculus.

There is a thing called the slope of the line of a curve. It is the basis for calculus.

Now, when you sell a product at a given price, you get so much money. The gross income. Now, this with all the costs you get a net income.

With me to this point?

If you raise the price, you get more money per unit. BUT, your sales will decline. The same goes if you lower the price, your sales will go up, but you make less per unit.

This is used to determine the MAX profit from price.

The same goes for taxation. EXACTLY the same thing.

Hell, if not, why not just raise the taxes to 100%? HELL, you will make all kinds of money for the government.

The government in the US does NOT get one dime from income tax. NOT ONE DIME. It all goes to the federal reserve and ALWAYS has.

Income tax on individuals has nothing to do with providing services. It has to do with CONTROL.

And sorry, I think taxation forced onto the States by the federal government because the fed mandates the States to do something, is an indicator YOUR premise is wrong. PERIOD.

The almighty 250k speech. Obama has even gotten to foreigners. He must be one sweet propagandist.

Well, it seems the 250k level has now been lowered further. Next up VAT and the Carbon Tax and the ever wonderful Health Care Tax that gets instituted now and no benefits for 4 years.

Please oh please, raise the taxes. Hire more people into government. C'mon, we can continue the MADNESS for another 10-20 years if we only tax everyone another 25-35%.

Frelling ignorance.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Your wrong about people injecting their cash into the private sector. Rich people hoard their money. I know that, cause I'm rich.

The more you have the more you want. You can't expect people to do the morally correct thing on their own.

So you admit to not wanting to help of your own accord? WTF? I just proved my point. If you had the choice of sitting on your cash, or burning it all up...that should be your f***ing choice.

Just because you can't find the courage to give to charity, doesn't mean I can't.

AlreadyGone pretty much hit the nail on the head. It all goes back to the private sector. Whether by the rich buying costly goods that the middle class and poor create, or the invest in other (possibly smaller) companies, or (worst case scenario) they put in a bank. If they put it in a bank, that then allows that bank to give out more loans to us poor and middle class that want to start up a new business, etc. (but you'd like to tax the s**t out of the small business too eh? small businesses EASILY make 250k/yr, but they have to buy equipment, and pay salaries, and pay insurance, etc.).

The whole reason we split from the English crown, was because of taxes. Also, I'm not saying I want complete anarchy, but the fed govt DOES NOT need 5% of everyone's taxes, let alone 50%. I'm all for local taxes (like I said previously, keep it in the local economy).

I think your misunderstand, or perhaps I haven't made myself clear.

As it stands right now, in the way taxes are done, my idea is completely ridiculous.

You need to do a complete revamp of the taxation system. I agree that local taxes are far more important that Federal ones.

No I don't agree with taxing small businesses, I was speaking of personal income.

As for charity, I give about 20% of my income to charity, cause me and my family just don't need it.

I was stating on the grander scale, I understand why the rich don't give, cause money is addicting, and for a long time I horded money and was against taxation of the rich, until I realized how ridiculous it was that people who make less than I do pay more taxes.

Do you think it's ok that YOU pay more taxes than I do?

I probably do far less work that you do as well.

~Keeper

reply to post by endisnighe


As stated, the system needs a revamp. Obviously the fed needs to be removed and these taxes need to go to the people, or services for the people run by the government etc..

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


this is common sense, and people get so mad about it. middle class is america, not the rich. the rich should pay more, BECAUSE they can!

its depressing how there is an entire party trying to protect the rich, while pooping on the poor.

taxes are necessary.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I disagree. I believe ideally corporate taxes would be 0%. Now before you freak out let me explain. Corp taxes just get passed on to the consumer. Corps create jobs. Corps create wealth. Corps stockholders get taxed on their dividends.

If you want a robust economy the best thing you could do is to not tax business. Businesses from other countries wth higher tax rates would move here.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by CowPatty]