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Gravity, Quantum Perception...(Mybe)

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posted on May, 10 2010 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


For the life of me I can't figure out why you are on my foes list. It is definitely not justified nor probably was it ever. I have been seeing a lot of your posts and threads and I always seem to be in agreement.

On to THE OP. Your title really has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread, which I believe was to explain consciousness and quantum understanding.

I'm in 100% agreement with your premise and understanding. I just don't see why more people can't come to this same reasoning.

Math is a lie, science is a lie. Observable phenomena is constrained to the defenition of the observer. As soon as you place those constraints its like taking a trickle from this ocean and saying it is the only reality. People get camped in their little box and become high and mighty.

Unfourtunately things aren't so simple. Trying to master conscious reality using your brain and defined concepts can never be done, it is placing limits on the infinite from a sensory perspective.

What do you think of the ever expanding universes and a lack of entropy?




posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


Your comment about math being a lie is interesting. As I understand it, you believe reality is based on our perceptions and how this "physical" universe affects it and us. My basic view is whats real is information, not the physical manifistation that alows us to percieve it.

Math is just one way of expressing an idea. There is language, art, customs, self identity, etc. Its just one more way to let your self and others know how you feel. But math is the most flexible and adaptable way to communicate an idea. It can also be mind numbing, a pain, and make you do things that have them take you away and give you injections every four hours. Just as we gain new words as our technology changes, and our culture adapts to deal with that, a mathamatical formula may change as our perceptions change. But the scope of what can be expressed with math is infanite (even if were not). Nothing else that we can do with our words, art, machines, or delusions of grandure can do that. The "rules" that restrict everything else don't apply to math. Only our imagination restricts us if we let it. I won't. Having an ego on Viagra helps.

It helps to think of math not as a goal to reach a conclusion, (it is that), but also as a process. Solving a complex math problem can be clunky or elegant. Same answer, different way of getting it. One way gives pain. The other gives pleasure. I will omit the details.
One way to look at it: When you look at a beautiful painting, or hear a piece of music that puts you in heaven, you don't ask yourself (I don't think") what the paints made out of, or the intruments used for the music. What you experience are not it's componants, but it's meaning. Emotional, logical, usually both. But always very, very emotional. It hasen't happened often for me (mabey twice) in my life. But when the information of a formula flows in a way I had never before understood, and I have that Ah Ha! moment and it's like the bliders I had on are (to a point) gone, the universe has just changed forever, and I wondered how I was so blind for so long. Thats when I realized once I "got it" it was all so very simple. It was like a machine with an infanite number of parts, working in infanite ways, to do infanite things, all perfectly. It seemed the most natural, logical, and beautiful thing I ever experienced. For a very short period of time however. The emotional impact faded, but the wonder never did.

But what I really regret is I don't have the verbal or poetic skills to get you or anyone else to really understand that. Mabey thats why we like different music or art, its so individualistic. Or mabey our language is just to primitive. Somethings it just can't express what we experience, as each of us experience it.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by ISHAMAGI
 


Thank you for the support. You may have foed me during a rant, or one of my polarized moments! haha. It is ok though i understand.

I don't think we could have an expanding universe if it exist within an infinite perspective. The universe could only be measureable if it is finite. At least from my current understanding.

As far as entropy is concerned. I would first have to believe in an atom and a unit of measurement to believe that it could exist. I have the belief that as we create the awareness of the atom we choose to look at, we create that atom. Let me make it clear that i do not fully understand or know of this entropy theory. I am going to familiarize myself with this more now though, thanks.

I was trying to draw attention for the sake of argument. I am not sure what my point was, i just wanted to open up a discussion about this. lol

[edit on 10-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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onequestion you are putting in to words a lot of what I feel and think. thank you.
when I was very young. I use’t to think that as far as you can see is all that exists. that beyond your site nothing exists. it is very child like. but from your world you dont need more. why so many lies? do we make them? or all the others? most people have there view of reality. is some one challenges it, they get scared and angered. I just have fun playing with new ideas. some times I feel I have the power to do any thing. but I am scared that I will lose control. so I dont use it. I get angrier some times and what I think is bad. every one feels hate, hurt to some one.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by arbiture
 


I see information as a tool for the mind to create perspective or understanding. Did i say that correctly?
My real problem with math is my perspective based on the projection of reality. From the infinite perspective it is hard to place limitations/measurements and weight/volume to something that has no boundaries. By adding value to it you create it into a finite perspective and give it boundaries.

I do believe in individual perspective, although i believe it exist within the whole/infinite perspective. We do get to express our individuality through the creation of ourselves expressed in material/matter. This expression still exist within the infinite or whole though as well.

I hope i understood you correctly.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by buddha
 


Thanks, i appreciate the support.

The lies from this view are created by you, or self. It is extremely hard to put into words how the interaction of paradigms happens from this perspective. How can i word this..

I create you into my universe/paradigm by acknowledging you and allowing you to exist within my projection of self. In turn you do the same. So in essence we are lying to each other about ourselves and each other, to ourselves and each other. If i allow you to reside within my projection of self, i would then have to stop me from projecting my lie onto you, and so uplift you from projecting a lie onto me. You would also have to do the same. We kind of work collectively. I hope i said that properly as i understand it.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


the lie is your god and his christ, your god that know as creator of lies how everything is fake and forced to serve lies wills creations

and no when truth is there is no lie, you cannot say that gravity is a lie or bigbang, in truth everything is at a place right and absolutely other wise it cannot be existing as even a word, even under the poweful god of lies life creations your god and his son

otherwise truth would not be existing and if there is no truth then you cant say that lie exist

the point that you mean to get a justification for to your god, is the point that god admit killing him

whatever are your means it is always a pretense of existing so it cant be existing real, and it turns up to be the energy identity you deployed for as the only fact existing negatively

like god and nature first you are, when they see truth they see creations opportunities to realize from, like you see that opportunity to sell an image of on the net or maybe elsewhere a business to enjoy by talking about anythign

instead of taking truth seriously as it is for itself serious fact, and sense the result in truth from your postion sense of and start from there as true in truth reality living realisations where you are true for yourself stand positive life freedom from by for, which is smart when truth do for itself so there is no for practically but the mean is correct

the difference between nature and god in that, is what nature realized how she couldnt get her means absolute life she wanted and all is saying her energy in insisting on what everything deny, so nature kept insisting and getting mad but only her madness allowed her to force what resist her willing to pretend being more
while god used intelligence to mean forcing all to his absolute realisation will and enjoy what he could reach to do, that is why the image of god is a rock that mean business till accomplishment of the whole lie like it was planed

it says how knowledge dont do anything since you are not moving true, and how anything is exclusively of truth concept of nothing forever as freedom positive life infinitly more

staying out of that movements cannot mean to say the lies out since it is you when anything out of truth is exclusively a lie then



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by imans
 


Ok, my god. How are you defining my god/christ? How can they be a lie with truth, they exist with words or definition as you put it.

Truth is undefinable. You are using truth to build boundaries for itself. I can never really understand what you are saying.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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hmmm....

The idea, is an amazing one, however, in my opinion the theory is flawed.

Your response to my previous post insinuated that either, my parents conciuosness was transferred to me in utero, or my past life reality is affecting my current conciousness.

Okay, but I am the master of my universe, what i believe becomes my reality, and nothing exists, unless I allow it to exist.

Nobody can afect me unless I allow them to.

I had a belief that all of this life was no more than a construct of my own mind, which is essentially what you are telling me/us that it is. Should that be true, then with my mind(consciousness) I can create the reality that I want.

I have been able to do some amazing things that defy normality, however, I have not (up to this point anyways) been able to alter the reality that I exist in.

Trust me, if I could there are millions of cases of suffering that would end abruptly.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Shade O. Danzer
 


No. I mean your view of your birth was created by yourself. Being born is a finite example of how we came to be. Once you are into the infinite perspective you would be viewing yourself as always having been. Being born = Measure of existence, a measure of existence is an illusion of the finite reality.

We coexist within an infinite spectrum of reality. So we have to collectively make the choice into an infinite perspective within your own projection of reality. If you choose to view the infinite projection of reality, at this time we all be choosing to do so within your infinite understanding.

At the same time within my paradigm. I may not choose to. The perspective change comes with experience and a true projection of this infinite understanding. When you move into this it will be a world event for your projection of self.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by onequestion]



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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and saying that maths is a lie proove exclusively the liar you are sorry

because all is exclusively of maths from its sources till its life ends

but from truth of course ways concepts facts livings realities of

you have a void and you want to maintain it that way this is the principal fact of truth source ends, and so of course you must deal with void nature taht is absolute concept source since it is nothing so you must invent the math adequation to that fact conception

and what is it other then maths then? ha pi that is also a math equation

that element in any perspective meaning objective reflection including else as positive certainty present, that is actually the source of energy moves positively for more, surely from what the sense of positive else force you to admit truth existence of you being true, so you cannot ignore or die

so that is why what is beautiful in a painting or anything you perceive objectively is the element you dont know said from what you know being to confirm positive absolute life always from that known and unknown agreement absolutely on

but the objective realisation is because of known math
and the unknown element is that maths abstraction confirming the known existing
and the result is positive of absolute maths for positive infinite certainty life and the most objectively away as maths always is



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by imans
 


Math is finite, describing boundaries. If you are not of the infinite perspective then you wouldn't understand.

Your choice to see death as the only possible way of rebirth into the infinite is your choice.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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it is easy to guess how the unknown element is experienced from any relative true for what it is not the truth realisator, so its perspective is relative to its positive freedom as true, and can sense from objective existence the sense of truth from being else true

but i guess how that unknown element is of absolute truth from what truth experienced it with outside void as present of what it mean too
and the fact that truth know how void is living as moving alone while truth cannot perceive it from out

those are facts because of maths being always the objective tool to mean all points known and left to know



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by arbiture
 


I see information as a tool for the mind to create perspective or understanding. Did i say that correctly?
My real problem with math is my perspective based on the projection of reality. From the infinite perspective it is hard to place limitations/measurements and weight/volume to something that has no boundaries. By adding value to it you create it into a finite perspective and give it boundaries.

I do believe in individual perspective, although i believe it exist within the whole/infinite perspective. We do get to express our individuality through the creation of ourselves expressed in material/matter. This expression still exist within the infinite or whole though as well.

I hope i understood you correctly.


Thanks for your reply, I don't wander into this area often. I look at the information as the reality. The physical manifistations may be the consequences of a learning process. Considering math, or any way we look at things, it all has a goal. Accomplish a task, achieve insight, or convince someone your right. It all boils down to manipulating information to achive something. Math can be usefull in cross cultural communication, or perhaps interspecies chat. I find it can be sterile, but that depends on my mood. In a larger reality, I think this information processing has always existed in some way, somewhere. In nature as in math as in how machines operate, they all do one thing. When they manifest what ever they are or do there purpose has an objective. Speaking in an esoteric way, what they seek is more orderd, less entropic then before. At an intelligent level, it's where something creates or manipulates it's own environment for it's own reasons. Or if their really smart, creates it's own universe. Meaning it controls laws of physics with thought or even instinct. I think thats what Arthur C Clark meant when he said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology would appear to us to be magic." But it's still information. But their ability to manipulate it would be like comparing the Mona Lisa to a mud puddle. And we can't even control where the puddles will show up.

I do see a problem using the word infanite. And I know I use it all the time. It's just another way of saying "I don't know" Saying infanite makes me sound like I know what I'm talking about. In truth? I don't believe in infinity or eternity. I do believe in REALLY BIG AND LONG space and time. Even though I have no reference points to measure something beyond a certain point, I do not think it is intrinsicly unknowable. This level of awareness would be an example of an entity that has reached a point where they use technology to affect there environment. Were at the bottom of the tech scale. With virtual reality, we can change how we percieve things. I think our reality is a kind of virtual reality, but a reality thats the product of the interaction of certain points on a membrane bubble, that is part of our and every other universe. But the information in our reality interacts at a physical level many ways. Each controls, adjusts the other. Perhaps this interaction is why our reality seems so "solid" to us. It's information in motion. It's easier to detect something thats moving. That may not be the brightest comment, but to me it's commen sense. I hope my rant is somewhat helpfull. I do rant a lot.

I guess how you look at math or anything else is of course a matter of perspective. One way or the other, you can find a process, or tool, or vantage point that works for you. I can't describe what that will feel like. But you'll know it when you get there.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by arbiture
 


I use the word infinite to describe everything/anything and something, whatever it is we can encompass within our realm of perspective. I look at the infinite as the infinite creator. Anything that exist without boundaries = infinite.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by arbiture
 


I use the word infinite to describe everything/anything and something, whatever it is we can encompass within our realm of perspective. I look at the infinite as the infinite creator. Anything that exist without boundaries = infinite.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


Thanks, I see your perspective.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


Just to clear up confusion, i do believe in the Christ, Jesus, and a singular god. But for the sake of argument i use terms objectively. My idea of a singular god is not some old man with a white beard. Also i believe that Christ conscious manifest itself into human for us to understand, not so much to save our sins.

The message of peace, love, and compassion can never be misunderstood.



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