Hispanic student knocks down american flag

Originally posted by mark_price
We know the school situation before the rally. The students in the truck followed the students in the school that were thrown out for wearing American flags. That’s the whole story. You seem to believe they were randomly driving by waving flags. If you still believe they were innocent patriots then you are still clueless.

You'd think that ATSers would know what an agent provocateur is.

But considering how many think it's fine to require citizens (since non-citizens could be detained for not having proof of citizenship) to prove their citizenship while decrying a national ID requirement, I'd say cognitive dissonance is now a required trait on these forums.

reply to post by mothershipzeta


OK OK maybe im stupid im still not getting it. These protestors were mexican americans. THEY were AMERICANS. ok ok soo they wanted people to respect their heritage thus waving the mexican flag ok... but they are also americans now!!! so why is a American flag instigating them??

mexican AMERICAN
mexican AMERICAN

racial sports with team flags?? The american flag doesnt represent a certain race it represents Americans. African Americans, White Americans, Irish Americans, and yes MEXICAN Americans.

This makes zeros sense.





[edit on 13-5-2010 by ker2010]

reply to post by mark_price


Yeah, try that one again.
I can't even respond to this mess.

You've got my quotes as non-quoted text. It looks like you are saying my words.


reply to post by mothershipzeta


The motives of the people in the truck, are irrelevant. Their actions are the only relevant thing. And their actions were in-line with Freedom of Speech/Expression. In fact their right to express themselves, was violated by the marcher/attacker.

As far as the new AZ law goes....
Firstly, the cops cannot just walk up to anyone and demand ID. That is a recently created myth, and it is dead wrong.

The person in question, must be doing something illegal or generating probable cause. Before the cops can ask for ID or anything else. Just like it is now.

Secondly, anyone here legally should be able to easily produce a state ID, Greencard, Visa, or something similar. This is pretty much, the very reason they get issued. I carry my driver's license everywhere I go.

The only people who have to worry, are people committing illegal acts, and have no ID on them. Again, just like it is now.

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by mark_price

 

Yeah, try that one again.
I can't even respond to this mess.

You've got my quotes as non-quoted text. It looks like you are saying my words.


reply to post by mothershipzeta

 

The motives of the people in the truck, are irrelevant. Their actions are the only relevant thing. And their actions were in-line with Freedom of Speech/Expression. In fact their right to express themselves, was violated by the marcher/attacker.

You can still tell what's up with that post if you take your time when you read it. Anyway, your answer is in this post: "motivation is irrelevant."
If "actions are the only relevant thing" then intent is also irrelevant. Actions intended to provoke would also be "irrelevant". Wow, I just learned some new things here. So if they had been waving rifles that would be fine as long as they didn't fire. Gun rights, which I support, were being expressed freely.

But it was an American flag! So why were they provoked, is the question? That's the game they were playing. Why would they throw kids out of school for wearing American flags? You have to learn to see things in context before you can judge.

You people that saying that this isn't a big deal, you guys are the type that would let someone walk up and slap your mother in the face and you would just say "well, she should have blocked it". You guys have no loyalty to anything, this "citizen of the world" crap is so ridiculous. Stand up for something.

The American flag is more than just an object, it is a symbol for everything our soldiers have fought and died for, for our entire history and our freedom.

The guy in that video knocked down the very thing that gives him the right to go to school and get an education in this country, he knocked the symbol of freedom that his parents or grandparents came here for, it is a shame that he isn't more respectful of something that has given him all the opportunities he has.

This is what happens when you stand by and let corporations buy your politicians, by not fighting for campaign finance reform.

Corporations are trying to destroy the sovereignty of our nation. And not just our nation, of all nations. They pit us against one another in petty little battles over ethnicity, religion, taxes, health care, but this is done to distract us from the main attack, which is on the dividing lines between our nations themselves.

If they can tear down the lines between countries, not only do they have free trade, but they have a body of people that are highly unlikely to ever be able to organize against them due to our differences.

We need to prevent this, at all costs.

It makes me sick to see people invading our country openly, and declaring it "theirs." This is very different from immigrating and becoming an American. But while this makes me sick, these are stupid children. If you listen to them speak you realize they have no real idea what the heck they are saying.

Invaders or no, these children are not the enemy. Our enemies are the ones who are buying our politicians, and breaking down our borders for their "trade" and their profit. And the politicians who stand by and do nothing while our borders are being flooded with those obviously intent on takeover, not integration into. Those politicians and corporate interests who are crashing our economy, and saving themselves with our money while we lose homes, jobs, etc. The real enemy is the corporate takeover of the democracies of the world, and we the people need to wake the hell up and take our democracies back before it is to late.

We need to end the flow of corporate money into political hands, and we need to punish the politicians that act in ways that harm our sovereignty and our Constitution, and we need to force open the media so that alternate candidates can be heard as well as the corporate talking heads.

Just my two cents.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by ker2010

OK OK maybe im stupid im still not getting it. These protestors were mexican americans. THEY were AMERICANS. ok ok soo they wanted people to respect their heritage thus waving the mexican flag ok... but they are also americans now!!! so why is a American flag instigating them??

Well, you are assuming because they are SAYING they are Mexican American that they actually are. There is a good possibility that they arent. It is quite possible that they were not born here, and have never been naturalized.

Most of the Mexican "Americans" who are complaining about this bill, I would be willing to bet, are not citizens, or have family here illegally, or they were here illegally and got amnesty the last time.

In the 1950's the next headline would have been.... "American Kid Knocks down Hispanic Student"........

it's sad what america is. It makes me embarrased to call myself American..

reply to post by Miss_Chievous666


That's the great part....if it saddens you, you are free to leave. You can go anywhere in the world.....I hope it's as nice as here and you enjoy the same freedoms as here.

"Our true nationality is mankind"-H.G Wells

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Most of the Mexican "Americans" who are complaining about this bill, I would be willing to bet, are not citizens, or have family here illegally, or they were here illegally and got amnesty the last time.

That is inaccurate on so many levels.

this is going nowhere..

Why are Americans so paranoid about their flag? Over in the UK we are not so insecure and do not put a flag on everything. Contrast to understand. The British are the roots of the English world and have no insecurity in themselves, the Americans are a new bunch of immigrant colonists who must assert their potpurie identity.

reply to post by lpowell0627


Or just get rid of flags all together. They are so shrouded in lore and myth and emotion that they are not treated as the simple piece of cloth they are.

Yes, yes, I know, the American Flag symbolizes this, that, and the other. Great. But, aren't actions superior to symbolism?

This whole nation thing...I gotta say, i don't really see a problem with a new world order ushering in the end of nation-states. However, I view it more from the opposite end, where there is no hierarchical pyramid that leads to an absolute ruler, but rather locally based living.

Kumbaya, it will never happen...let's just keep up the less than stellar work we've all been doing at making this world just a little bit more full of hate everyday.

I'm gonna go burn an American flag on a busy street corner near my house and see how long it takes me to get shot. Have a good day!

reply to post by skyblueseas


I disagree. We always try to "deny" our potpourri identity.

reply to post by Illmatic67


Too bad it would be racial profiling to ask for the paperwork needed to see whether you, or I, were right.

Originally posted by FantasmaTaans

Originally posted by ker2010
reply to post by pablos

 

Mexican americans? Why cant they just call themselfs americans? Why not just wave the american flag. If they like mexico so much why dont they go back there.

Once you are a american you are suppose to assimilate. You learn english, wave the american flag etc etc

[edit on 10-5-2010 by ker2010]

Way to go buddy, become the Borg.
Pride, respect, and history, and family are huge to the hispanic culture. They have the right to be able to speak both languages, to be able to celebrate where they are from. Simply because white Americans (northern) do not is because of a huge cultural difference.

Yes that's true, you won't find these rednecks protesting when Italian-americans celebrate whatever italian stuff they do in little Italy. The only difference here between italian-americans and mexican-americans is that one group can assimilate easier on the basis of the color of their skin, and not have to face the same level of discrimination that mexican-americans routinely undergoe in the U.S.

The white protesters do not realize that celebrating ancestral roots, doesn't make them any less american than any other immigrants.

Originally posted by redrezo
Way to go buddy, become the Borg.
Yes that's true, you won't find these rednecks protesting when Italian-americans celebrate whatever italian stuff they do in little Italy. The only difference here between italian-americans and mexican-americans is that one group can assimilate easier on the basis of the color of their skin, and not have to face the same level of discrimination that mexican-americans routinely undergoe in the U.S.

The white protesters do not realize that celebrating ancestral roots, doesn't make them any less american than any other immigrants.

With all due respect, who do you believe should have the burden of fitting in? Tolerance and understanding is one thing, but asking for changes that inconvenience and discriminate against people already living there is a recipe for disaster. People just refuse to the see it from the point of view of the host country. How do you think illegal immigration affects people living there? Why should legal citizens have to sacrifice their happiness and welfare so that illegal persons can get by? Would you defend illegal Americans in Mexico? Would you be open and receptive to White Americans who have no desire to integrate into the country's culture and identity?

[edit on 17/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

We're moving closer to being ashamed of our own flag.