Hispanic student knocks down american flag

reply to post by adifferentbreed


There is no double standard at all.

You show me a march/celebration of white heritage that doesn't advocate for a white only land, or claim that whites are superior. And that doesn't discriminate against someone because of their race or ethnic heritage.

And I'm positive everyone, including non-whites would clearly state they have no issue with it.

Should I be more clear. Avoid the semi-intellectual replies and make it easier.

Don't be aholes and no one will have a problem.

reply to post by mryanbrown


But preaching hispanic/black, you pick the race superiority isn't racist? C'mon you can't have it both ways. And since when does standing up for the laws of your country make you a racist?

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by mryanbrown

 

But preaching hispanic/black, you pick the race superiority isn't racist? C'mon you can't have it both ways. And since when does standing up for the laws of your country make you a racist?

One thing at a time...

"But preaching hispanic/black, you pick the race superiority isn't racist?"
- Preaching... what?
(if by some off-chance you meant that hispanics/blacks preach for a hispanic/black only land or claim ethnic superiority, which I have yet to see protests or marches for... then I am grown enough and comfortable enough to admit that's no better than neo-nazi scum) [Would you be able to admit the same after all this denial?]

"C'mon you can't have it both ways"
- Have what? You haven't identified what it is you're referring to, or quoted what it was that I said that you're referring to.

" And since when does standing up for the laws of your country make you a racist?"
- Are you seriously going to try and play this? WHERE DID LAWS COME INTO PLAY IN THE CONVERSATION!? We were arguing about how it isn't a double standard that people don't want to see racist protests. I completely fail to see how laws relate to this.

Oh no wait, I had to put my illegal immigration reality distortion field nazi helmet on to put it into perspective.

You mean people wanting illegals out of the country. Standing up for those laws right? I agree.

The reason I and others like me say it's racist.

IS BECAUSE IT IS.

Because you label non-whites as being ILLEGAL... Before you even discover their citizenship status.

ie. You're equating non-whites as being non-citizens...

How does no one understand that's racist yet?

It is a piece of cloth, and only a piece of cloth. You jingoist idiots need to get your head around that. National pride is the most foolish pride ever. You did nothing to deserve it other than your mother just happened to be in the USA when you were born.

By the way, this is the same US flag that symbolizes imperial interference around the world, along with the deaths of MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS.

People disgrace the flag hundreds of times EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Is it just a coincidence that you cherry picked one with someone of Hispanic descent and then gave it a misleading title to garner stars and flags? You sir, should be ashamed.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by MahNameABorat]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by MahNameABorat]

reply to post by ker2010


First off, Thank You for your service. I do not know enough about the AZ laws to comment one way or another. I was put in a situation a number of years ago. I was working for a property management company in Hawaii. A number of co workers were illegal aliens. I was recently out of the Army and getting on my feet so to speak. Hawaii has a great public bus system which was my mode of transport. I did not have a drivers license.

Someone tipped off immigration about the number of illegals. A raid ensued and because I could not produce a valid DL, I too was detained. It was embarrassing for sure. I understood that they were doing their job though. The illegals were Canadian and I am of Irish/ English descent. Hawaii is a state made up of Pacific rim immigrants, Native Hawaiians, as well as a large Portuguese population. I didn't cry racism, although it happens there. "Haoles" (people of European descent) are targets of Hate crimes and racism. But that had nothing to do with the agents doing their job. They were upholding the Law.

But looking at it from the point of view that the problem in many border states, both north and south, have trouble with Illegal Aliens. To apprehend South American, Central American or Mexican illegals is indeed the duty of law enforcement. If someone is put out by it, like I was, it is merely a byproduct of the problem. Collateral Damage so to speak. I understood that.

We don't live in a perfect world. Our countrymen are getting to the point that think they have more Rights than the Constitution affords them. People think they have the right not to be offended. Well, that comes with free speech. Being offended by people speaking their native language is not covered by the constitution. Speaking ones native language is. Free Speech. Long before this current issue there were the same fears and concerns. Ever see Gangs of New York?

"Native" Americans banded together against the foreigners. Mainly Irish. But throughout our history groups of immigrants felt the pressure from "Native" Americans to speak the language, assimilate into the American culture. Italian, Irish, Sweeds, Norweigians, Chinese, etc. etc. But we have little Italys, China Towns. The Hot button issue today is Latin Americans. This too will pass. It always does. The only difference is immigration is not as open as it once was....and doing it Legally is the issue.

It is a shame you feel offended by the steps Az has taken to stem the flow of illegals. They must feel it is a significant problem. But comparing them to Nazis? Really? So every Border Patrol and Customs agent are out there preparing the Hispanics for internment in camps? Racial Cleansing? Even the large number of them being of Hispanic? And those police officers checking IDs, those that are Hispanic....are they the modern day Uncle Toms? I don't think so. I think they are the product of Legal immigration and believe that if you break the law you break the law. It isn't a racial issue. It is an Illegal Alien issue. A criminal issue.

Some Mexicans feel persecuted. Some Middle Eastern Nationals feel persecuted. Years ago the Irish felt persecuted. The Italians felt persecuted. The Chinese felt persecuted. Now they are just Americans. This too will pass. It isn't a racial issue. It is a Law and Order issue.

If you are stationed in Az, I am assuming you may be Air Force. People feel put out all the time by aircraft flying or the noise from exercises. Even people who KNEW the base was there when the purchased their homes! So should the Air Force, or the military as a whole move all their operations to extremely secluded areas so as not to upset or offend anyone? NO, that isn't the way it works. We all have to make sacrifices.

Originally posted by bgood1968
We don't live in a perfect world. Our countrymen are getting to the point that think they have more Rights than the Constitution affords them.

You were in the military. And your rights were interfered with when you were detained in the raid for not having a valid id? Then turn around and say people think they have more rights than the constitution PROTECTS not AFFORDS or GRANTS.

They had no reasonable cause to issue a warrant to interfere with your person. (Yeah that's in the Constitution)...

And they want to do incidents like that wide-scale. Ignoring simple paragraphs of the Constitution YOU fought for.

And somehow you're okay with it? Because it's collateral damage. Just the way it is?

Under your law you are allowed to burn a flag, be it American
or foreign.

Why don´t you take the freedom of burning a foreign flag at
your leisure ?

That is what constitutional rights of free expression are about.

Come over to Germany and burn the German, American or
Mexican flag, or any country´s, with which Germany has
diplomatic relations, and be faced with a jail term of a maximum
3 years or a corresponding fine. It would be up to 5 years,
if Germany can prove you to have attempted to overthrow
the government/constitution by the action of flag-burning or
inciting others to do the same.

Germans or foreigners may not fly the NAZI flag (Swastika)
in Germany. It might lead to a term in prison, too.

You can wave those flags in the US with impunity, it seems.
So, if you want to rid yourselves of those protesters, send
them over to Germany to desecrate the German Constitution.

As a German I am sure that, without our history, we would be
handling the flag issue like the US.

Hardly anybody in Germany would take exception to foreigners
or locals waving foreign flags, it being a constitutional right of
free expression. Of course, you could talk any language you
want.

Originally posted by Udo Hohnekamp Lux.
Hardly anybody in Germany would take exception to foreigners
or locals waving foreign flags, it being a constitutional right of
free expression. Of course, you could talk any language you
want.

It's supposed to be that way here also... but you know how race wars go.

Waiving a non US "BATTLE FLAG" ie flag of WAR, means you aren't American and are an illegal.

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by Udo Hohnekamp Lux.
Hardly anybody in Germany would take exception to foreigners
or locals waving foreign flags, it being a constitutional right of
free expression. Of course, you could talk any language you
want.

It's supposed to be that way here also... but you know how race wars go.

Waiving a non US "BATTLE FLAG" ie flag of WAR, means you aren't American and are an illegal.

Yeah, it's "supposed to be that way here also" if by, supposed to be that way you mean a bunch of crotchety white people think that regardless of the fact that there is no law about flag burning (at least on the federal level).

Also, Boy Scouts burn flags to dispose of them, but it has to be done in a certain "respectful" fashion. Everyone worshiping the flag needs to seriously re-examine their lives and/or watch footage of the old Nazi rallies in 1930s Germany. Nationalism is an absolute disease, one that has lead to more death than any of us can imagine.

reply to post by mryanbrown


Probable Cause. No ID, they have the authority to determine if I am who I say I am. It is the law.

Do we have the Right not to be offended? No. The police do not have the authority to pull over every car with brown skinned people as some suggest they are doing. They aren't doing that. While performing their duties ( traffic stop, immigration raid, loud noise complaint etc.) they have the authority to determine if you are who you say you are. Run you for wants and warrants etc.

Once I confirmed I was who I said I was, I was back to work. Inconvenient, sure. A violation of my rights? I don't think so. I was not arrested....detained. I was not tortured, beaten, abused. Inconvenienced sure. But tell me where the right not to be inconvenienced or offended is stated in the Constitution.

BTW they did have a warrant to enter the property looking for the illegal aliens. They didn't just kick down the door.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by bgood1968]

Repulsive support of racism here.

These are the kind of threads that are going to attract the wrong crowds to this website...there are enough racists and bigots on ATS already...no need to drag more in..

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by mark_price

 

What about this, is so hard for you to understand.
No one reported any racial slurs, or provocation, by the people in the truck.
Anything to make your favorite group, seem provoked though right?

What report are you reading?

No matter how much you want to speculate, or make ridiculous musings about "something in the air", the facts are thus....

People in the truck were practicing their First amendment right, and they were stopped by a violent person.

They stopped in the middle of the road to argue with a girl.

Your little scenario with the girl as a total victim, and the assaulter as a total hero is hilarious.

Not a victim; kind of brave IMO.

Do you regularly make excuses for criminals?
Because that's what the assaulter is, a criminal.

Now there's an assumption.

Since you like assumptions so much, here's mine....
The girl is obviously a loudmouth, insulting, troublemaker. And the assaulter is obviously another troublemaker who wanted to get in on it. I mean they just walked out of school right? That makes them academically irresponsible as well.

field trip?

So I proclaim them irresponsible, Loudmouth, insulting, troublemakers. It's so obvious, it's in the air.

(not really, I don't operate on assumptions. it's not a fair practice.)

stick with the facts

reply to post by mark_price

 

People can do whatever they want with their flags of various qualities, as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others.

You have no right trying to dictate how people can use their privately owned flags.

The only person who infringed on another person's rights, was the assaulter.
Nothing that the people in the truck did, was stopping anyone.

I really don't care what people do with their flags.

reply to post by mark_price

 

At 0:01 to 0:03
The assaulter begins jaywalking and approaches the truck. Flag waving.

At 0:04
The guy in the truck STOPS waving the flag and holds it vertically as the assaulter approaches.

At 0:05 the assaulter slaps the flag to the ground.

Your fantasy scenario where the assaulter got hit first never happened. Even his own fellow-protester tells the assaulter "You're doing it wrong".

At least I'm not blind and out of order. If the truck had not stopped there would have been no situation. And the flag hit the guy in the face before he reflexively slapped it to the ground.

Virtually all of you pro-assaulters have claimed the same thing.
When are one of you going to put your money where your mouth is, and prove it?

Now we are "pro-assaulters"? Just look at the clip and see for yourself, you might need glasses...

WOW, what a video, just like all demonstrations, there is always the other side. Who's right or wrong is for the individuals heart to tell them... I am Mexican American (4th generation) and listening to one of the girls talk about "We are all equal" well my question to her is, why not fly the American flag instead of the Mexican flag?

The Mexican flag represents Mexico and its people IN Mexico... Because I don't fly the Mexican flag doesn't mean I lost any of my heritage. We still speak Spanish in our home, and English for that matter. We still have Mexican celebrations in our home. Nothing is lost if we choose to not lose it. My wife is Swedish and we have her customs as well…

So let go of the EGO my fellow friends... What is the true purpose of the Mexican American's demonstration? The right to fly the Mexican flag, or a right to be treated as equals, what?

SUGGESTION:
Fly the American flag and chant We are Mexican American... I think it will go much smoother than it has been.... Well, you are in America, right?

Yes you have an inalienable right to fly any flag you choose in the USA, but personally I think if you are going to demonstrate you need to take a look at who your audience will be and how you can have them consider your views... If you have one witness from your demonstration actually raise an eyebrow and they actually think about your words and thoughts, then you have succeeded... But if you bring the wrong tools (Mexican flag) to the demonstration and if the same happens as in the OP's video, then it will keep happening. If you want to be accepted, then simply fly the American flag show them you are proud of this Country and proud to be here…

I can just picture it, a group of Mexican American’s all carrying American flags and yelling, we are Mexican American…doesn’t that visually put a different aspect to the demonstration???

Originally posted by MahNameABorat

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by Udo Hohnekamp Lux.
Hardly anybody in Germany would take exception to foreigners
or locals waving foreign flags, it being a constitutional right of
free expression. Of course, you could talk any language you
want.

It's supposed to be that way here also... but you know how race wars go.

Waiving a non US "BATTLE FLAG" ie flag of WAR, means you aren't American and are an illegal.

Yeah, it's "supposed to be that way here also" if by, supposed to be that way you mean a bunch of crotchety white people think that regardless of the fact that there is no law about flag burning (at least on the federal level).

Also, Boy Scouts burn flags to dispose of them, but it has to be done in a certain "respectful" fashion. Everyone worshiping the flag needs to seriously re-examine their lives and/or watch footage of the old Nazi rallies in 1930s Germany. Nationalism is an absolute disease, one that has lead to more death than any of us can imagine.

Crotchety white people..............and with statements like that there is no racism against whites? Hmmmmmm, hello pot, meet the kettle. So only crotchety white people care about the flag? I guess people other than whites who serve in the military don't count.....get a clue man. Epic Fail.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by adifferentbreed]

reply to post by adifferentbreed


I like how people like you ignore the arguments being levelled at you to take 1 small thing and make a bigger deal out of it. This is why I have no respect for everyone who always argues on this white supremacist side, they just can't back up their beliefs when challenged. Its a flag, people didn't fight for a piece of cloth, they fought for the constitution, which actually says its rights are for all people, not just white middle class americans, yes mexicans, arabs and african americans too!

Originally posted by bgood1968
reply to post by mryanbrown

 

Probable Cause. No ID, they have the authority to determine if I am who I say I am. It is the law.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The only time probable cause is mentioned in the constitution, and also the only time government is allowed to interfere with your privacy is AFTER a warrant has been issued.

So I understand we all grew up with the indoctrination that probable cause means they can skip obtaining a warrant to interfere with your liberties. However it is still unlawful despite being law. Thanks to adhesion contracts and administrative law.

There have been countless unlawful laws. (Sounds confusing?) Most laws violate common law principles. Most laws violate the constitution. They are unlawful regardless of what government says.

A similar situation just happened here in Arizona. Only the person on question WAS able to provide valid identification and SSN. The officers felt they had the authority to require the individual show his birth certificate. Seeing as almost no one carries that on them. He was arrested for being a suspected illegal, despite being a citizen. Because he couldn't provide ENOUGH valid id.

Unlawful...

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
Crotchety white people..............and with statements like that there is no racism against whites? Hmmmmmm, hello pot, meet the kettle. So only crotchety white people care about the flag? I guess people other than whites who serve in the military don't count.....get a clue man. Epic Fail.

It's not racist. He wasn't identifying it as a racial trait. He identified that some white people in here, are crotchety. It's not a stereotype. It seems pretty factual. And I think I've pointed out that none of you actually care for the flag. Or this wouldn't be an issue.

Saying things like...

"I guess people other than whites who serve in the military don't count."
- Pretty sure you just said non-whites who serve in the military don't count. (But I'm also willing to bet that's not what you meant)

BOTH parties disrespected the flag. Both were Americans. Remove the flag imagery. And you will clearly see whats going on. It's racial tension.

Arguing on the Nazi's side......no I detest those people, just as much as I detest those from other races doing the same thing. Funny thing is, people are hesitant to admit that happens, and once again it's all the white peoples fault. What proof has been presented....it's all conjecture at this point. Both sides of this incident were in the wrong to a certain degree....some just more so.

reply to post by mark_price


Got that denial machine going at full steam now, eh?

Originally posted by mark_price
What report are you reading?

What, are we failing to understand basic English?

I said, no one reported any racial slurs.
Way to try and put words in my mouth though.

They stopped in the middle of the road to argue with a girl.

They stopped in the middle of the road, in order to avoid hitting the vehicle in front of them.

Not a victim; kind of brave IMO.

Oh really?

How brave is it to confront people, when you have at least a dozen of your friends with you?

Now there's an assumption.

What assumption?

He slapped someone's private property out of their hands.
That is a crime, and you keep making excuses for the perpetrator.

field trip?

Sure, sidestep your own assumptions.

stick with the facts

Yeah, this is pretty much the epitome of Hypocrisy.
You're the one making up stories, about what happened before the video.

I really don't care what people do with their flags.

Really?
Then what's this all about?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by mark_price
Yeah, but you don't drive around waving it at mexicans. Or you don't have a cheap immitation for that kind of thing. You have a a flag you care about so you would not use it for something like that, right? Now if your neighbor flew their Canadian flag too high, I hope you wouldn't go to extremes about it.

Gee, that's a whole lot of "don't care".

At least I'm not blind and out of order. If the truck had not stopped there would have been no situation. And the flag hit the guy in the face before he reflexively slapped it to the ground.

They had traffic in front of them. It's visible as early as 0:03 seconds into the video, and again at 0:09. They had no choice but to stop or break the law.

I would say that the assaulter took advantage of the pause in traffic, in order to enforce his violence upon the peaceful protesters in the truck.

Why are you suggesting that the US flag wavers break the law?
Why should the people in the truck do that for the protestors?

The flag's movement was halted before the assaulter jaywalked all the way over to it. You can keep pretending otherwise, but the video is proof-positive.

Now we are "pro-assaulters"? Just look at the clip and see for yourself, you might need glasses...

I have watched the video. You claim you have too, but you seem to have missed the dark truck that was holding up the flag-wavers truck.

You've made that mistake twice.

The only one who needs new glasses is you. You should really go trade in your Rose-tinted ones, for a genuine prescription.



[edit on 12-5-2010 by Byteman]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by MahNameABorat]

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
Funny thing is, people are hesitant to admit that happens, and once again it's all the white peoples fault. What proof has been presented....it's all conjecture at this point. Both sides of this incident were in the wrong to a certain degree....some just more so.

Right both were wrong. The tool that was used? The flag. Disrespecting it. ON BOTH sides.

So no one has an merit to argue the people who knocked it down are the only ones to disrespect it. So they should just, "go home". Racism.

It's pretty sad, this new media hype and social engineering plan to make certain whites feel alienated, and this like there is white-racism. Because people are sick of nazis, and racists.

People of color have no problems with people for simply being white (with certain exceptions) And it's true on the opposite end.

Both camps have retards. The problem is, to make a point people always pick the retarded situations. And then turn it into a stereotype that's applicable to all people of that color.

Saying Americans are illegal. Racist
Saying Americans should "go home". Racist

And it is THESE VERY SAME PEOPLE who are crying that there's white racism, when people say that behavior is unacceptable.

You people are being played like a finely tuned harp, right out of the nazism playbook for social engineering and propaganda.

This whole thread. And the majority of the people claiming there is racism against whites are the ones being racist. And granted they may not even know they are.