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Roswell Case Closed: what really happened

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posted on May, 10 2010 @ 03:39 PM
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Let' start with the agreement that something happened at Roswell (near Roswell actually) Lt. Col Phillip Corso's accounting in his book " The day after Roswell" is one of the most enlightning books on this topic. Coming from a retired military man and a long and distinguished career. His honesty (from the military' point of view) is amazing and believeble. He was in charge of handling the artifacts obtained from the crash and finding first of all a military benefit, second civillian uses. His explanation of the need for coverup is undeniable considering the political enviroment of the day. This book released in 1998 is a major disclosure on this highly secretive event in American history.


It should be noted, that even Corso admits his knowledge of Roswell is second-hand information. He was told that the debris in his possession was from a crash in New Mexico in the 40's, but it was never confirmed (to him) specifically, to be from the Roswell incident. He claims to have first-hand knowledge of the debris, and of the firms that the debris was given to (as well as a personal story about seeing one of the bodies), so just wanted to clarify this point....




posted on May, 10 2010 @ 04:44 PM
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I keep an open regarding Roswell, I don't necessarily believe it was a UFO but the air force explanation is pretty ridiculous IMO. The dummies were not Even being dropped until the 50s and they expect us to believe that peoples recollection is off by 4-7 years?



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by drock905
 


this is what bothers me. They say that there were bodies there but as you posted they clearly were not dummies. What bodies would be there to warrant such a high level of coverup and such a HUGE dedication of resources?



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by game over man
reply to post by Mr_skepticc
 


^Classic skeptic answer with no evidence either!

reply to post by desert_eagle
 


Do you have any links to the Nazi biology testing?


[edit on 10-5-2010 by game over man]



OK, here are some generic links that I found.


Nazi human experimentation:

en.wikipedia.org...


human chimera:

en.wikipedia.org...


parahuman:

en.wikipedia.org...


macrocephaly:

en.wikipedia.org...


It's a disgusting topic. Primates were used quite a bit in the space program and for medical testing. Humans and primates share a lot of common DNA. A persistent stable mutation in a chimera or hybrid would look a lot like a classic Gray, but would have no chance of being intelligent.

DE



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by desert_eagle
 


Thank you for the links. However we are left with 3 choices:

1. Mutated non-intelligent Jews from Holocaust gas chamber experiments crashed a Nazi Flying saucer in New Mexico.
2. What the US Government said.
3. The truth.

It is sad because our World leaders have no interest in Art, because we all know that is what the most eye appealing crowd pleasing benefits we would receive from ET's. Everyone knows deep down, you want to see their "magic".

If you listen to Dr. Michio Kaku on the recent Larry King Show on CNN, "they would get nothing out of destroying us, or stripping our natural resources, we could be like ants or even mosquitos to them."



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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I'll bite.

Jesse Marcel Sr. graduated as a Radar Intelligence Officer from the 3539th AAF Base Unit Radar Observer School at Langley Field, Virginia in 1945. While there, he studied advanced (at the time) radar technology including all varieties of Rawin radar tagets as well as the ML-307 reflectors used on the Mogul devices.

I think its safe to say that Marcel Sr. knew what a radar weather balloon looked like- even if it was strewn across the New Mexican desert.

My 2 cents.

Source? The Roswell Legacy. Written by Marcel Jr. who is a class act IMHO.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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Whether you believe it was aliens or not (and i am very skeptical)form what I've read there are many things about the whole Roswell case that make me uneasy. (and yes i'm using the same skepticism here)
It all sounds like such a cover up and there are still so many unanswered questions.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by once awoken
It all sounds like such a cover up


Yes, because ETs crashed there.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

Regarding the "case closed" report, yes the year is wrong for the dummies, they were years after Roswell. But Marcel and other witnesses didn't report any bodies in the debris field. So the dummies/bodies not being in 1947 goes both ways right? There's no evidence of dummies in 1947 in the "case closed" report, but is there any evidence that the bodies (or dummies) were actually found in 1947? Certainly not by Marcel who was a key witness.


Marcel and Brazel were associated with one crash site, whereas in looking at all of the accounts and evidence, there appear to have been two crash sites, with a larger piece of debris, and the bodies, found at the second crash site. This also matches the Ramey memo, which mentions this, and corroborates with other witness accounts.


Other than the Ramey memo ( I assume you mean the one Marcel is holding in the photo?), is there any evidence of a second crash site in 1947? I haven't seen it.


Originally posted by Archirvion
Roswell is no fiction. Get your feet down to the ground please.



Originally posted by Archirvion
Roswell is no fiction. Get your feet down to the ground please.


Why are you spamming the thread by re-posting the same non-contributing message? What does that even mean? Of course we all know something happened, we're trying to figure out what. I don't see how that adds to the discussion.


Originally posted by franspeakfree
8. The Air force says that the bodies seen on the gorund were dummies - This is very important because it goes to show that there were dummy like figures on the ground that eyewitnesses saw, don't forget first of all that those eyewitnesses were treated like fools and ridiculed until the dummy story developed.


Yes but once again I ask, did they see them in 1947 and if so where is the evidence for this? A clipping from a 1947 newspaper article perhaps? (like we have for the "crashed disc"?) Here is a list of articles from Roswell in 1947, do any of these mention bodies?

This section has newspapers article of 1947 from all over the world related to the Roswell incident and articles of that time to provide an insight of what newspapers wrote on the subject of the "flying saucers" at the time of the Roswell incident.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
While I appreciate your logic, and well thought out ideas on this long debated event, I have to say the one thing I disagree with you on the most is when you said "These explanations given are claims that are just as wild as UFO claims if not moreso." That would be a little more so than the other. The idea that an alien race visiting planet earth, whether than or for thousands of years is so over the top, so more unbelievable than man could walk on the sun.

I do believe something happen at Roswell, I believe it relates to more of a top secret spying tool the U.S was developing. Yes! They may have lost where it went, the equipment they used to monitor those things at the time was not very good, and with a major thunder storm reported that night it was very possible they lost the thing.


well just another wild-off accusation just like the UFO believers.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by tigpoppa
Using peoples memories is difficult to rely on. This is why I try to avoid witness testimony about what was there and what they say.


I agree, memories can distort over time and this is a known fact. I find articles like this 1947 newspaper clipping very informative as it doesn't rely on distorted memories decades later:

Harassed Rancher who Located 'Saucer' Sorry He Told About it


Monday he came to town to sell some wool and while here he went to see Sheriff George Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he might have found a flying disk.

Wilcox got in touch with the Roswell Army Air Field and Maj. Jesse A. Marcel and a man in plain clothes accompanied him home, where they picked up the rest of the pieces of the "disk" and went to his home to try to reconstruct it.

According to Brazel they simply could not reconstruct it at all. They tried to make a kite out of it, but could not do that and could not find any way to put it back together so that it would fit.

Then Major Marcel brought it to Roswell and that was the last he heard until the story broke that he had found a flying disk.

Brazel said that he did not see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn up, so he did not know the size or shape it might have been, but he thought it might have been as large as a table top. The balloon which held it up, if that is how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoke gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 5 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.

There was no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.

No strings or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.

Brazel said that he had previously found two weather observation balloons on the ranch but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these.


Personally I find articles like these very informative:

"The balloon which held it up, if that is how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoke gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 5 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds."

So it refers to the balloon, tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks, a bundle 18-20 inches long and 5 inches thick, and a total weight of about 5 pounds. And we know it wasn't a weather balloon because Brazel had seen those before. So this is pretty close to timely original source material and gives us a pretty good idea of the debris found. Isn't it interesting that "considerable scotch tape" was used in addition to the tape with flowers on it?



[edit on 10-5-2010 by Arbitrageur]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by tigpoppa
Using peoples memories is difficult to rely on. This is why I try to avoid witness testimony about what was there and what they say.


I agree, memories can distort over time and this is a known fact. I find articles like this 1947 newspaper clipping very informative as it doesn't rely on distorted memories decades later:



Yeah, all the witnesses' memories coincidentally "distorted" to the same story.

Sorry, that excuse is not gonna work.

I think skeptics are going to have to get used to the fact that The Roswell Incident was most likely ET visitation. I know that irritates them because they base their entire interest of UFO/ETs on trying to "debunk" them.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Dear Arbitrageur

I have never heard a convincing argument made to a few points :

(1) “RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region”
(2) Press release by Colonel William "Butch" Blanchard who was the commanding officer at the 509th Operations Group (509 OG) and went on to be promoted to 4 star General
(3) No one was looking for a missing craft.

These are facts that can not be put down to fading memory, or anything else I can think of. What ever it was it was not mogul they were lying then and they are still lying today. It is 63 years since this happened it doesn’t matter what the technology was then if it was from earth. Even political secrets do not last this long they are all dead. We know about MK Ultra and that was supposed to have ended in 1975.

The only possible conclusion is that what ever it was it was so extraordinary the answer can never be found. The answer I fear will be horrific.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by Viper2
 


Dear Viper2

I notice that this story is dated the 9th of July 1947 after the cover up story of the weather balloon debacle, most likely after the rancher was driving his new pick up truck.

No way under this heaven could a story like this come from that description of wreckage.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Personally I find articles like these very informative:

"The balloon which held it up, if that is how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoke gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 5 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds."

So it refers to the balloon, tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks, a bundle 18-20 inches long and 5 inches thick, and a total weight of about 5 pounds. And we know it wasn't a weather balloon because Brazel had seen those before. So this is pretty close to timely original source material and gives us a pretty good idea of the debris found. Isn't it interesting that "considerable scotch tape" was used in addition to the tape with flowers on it?



[edit on 10-5-2010 by Arbitrageur]


12 feet long bundled up becomes a 18 inches. Thats like a basketball hoop squeezed into a ruler. Smoke gray, the gray part of smoke not the black, but grey smoke, so interesting. About 5 lbs is nearly weightless. Flowers on it could be the hieroglyphics.

I just thought that the Roswell debris has been described as thin tin foil like one out of a cigarette pack, indestructible, feather-weight, can be crumpled up and then unravel back to it's original size.

I've heard recently, I can't recall, but if you are in a space ship traveling at near the speed of light, your mass would shrink. So maybe that is something to consider about the description of the Roswell debris.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by Viper2
Yeah, all the witnesses' memories coincidentally "distorted" to the same story.


Well they all remember Tinfoil and balsa wood-like substances, so they do all have that much in common. As for the later distortions of the magical properties of those substances, no they don't all agree:

roswellproof.homestead.com...

TOUGH, FLEXIBLE, FOIL-LIKE MATERIAL, WITH MEMORY

The following table has been added to aid in cross-referencing witness descriptions of properties


As you can see they don't all remember the "same story".

And I hit a piece of tinfoil with my sledge hammer and nothing happened to it, just like Jesse Marcel said.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by Viper2
 


Dear Viper2

I notice that this story is dated the 9th of July 1947 after the cover up story of the weather balloon debacle, most likely after the rancher was driving his new pick up truck.

No way under this heaven could a story like this come from that description of wreckage.


Well, think about it, you're right. There was no story for decades after it happened. Then decades later someone resurrected the story.

If you're implying he lied in return for getting a pickup truck, he didn't do a very good job of it. Why would he contradict the government cover-up story by clearly stating that he had seen two weather balloons before and it was definitely not a weather balloon? If he was complicit in a government coverup, you would think he would have changed his description to be consistent with the weather balloon story, but he didn't, he directly contradicts it. So that argument that he lied in exchange for a pickup truck doesn't hold water, they would have had him support their cover story, not directly contradict it, right?

In fact that's what made this such a good mystery up until 1994, we all knew the weather balloon cover story was a lie, from this article and other information. It definitely was NOT a weather balloon. So we ALL wondered what the heck they were really hiding. Though I never really thought an alien spaceship that had traveled across the galaxy to get here was held together by scotch tape, like the wreckage they found.


Originally posted by game over man
I've heard recently, I can't recall, but if you are in a space ship traveling at near the speed of light, your mass would shrink. So maybe that is something to consider about the description of the Roswell debris.


As you approach the speed of light, your mass becomes infinite. That's why you can never reach the speed of light, you can't have an infinite mass. There are dimensional changes also but those reverse once you stop traveling near the speed of light.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by Arbitrageur]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Dear Arbitrageur

I have often wondered and I know this is off the wall, is if both stories could be right.

Just suppose that a mogul balloon got tangled with the extraordinary object in the storm. Perhaps even the one making the other crash.

Also it would seam obvious that the two crash site theory has to be correct.

Otherwise how could you possible come up with “Captured a Flying Disc” from the described wreckage.

Ok there had been claims in the press (Kenneth Arnold) etc and the previous one where the ship was hit by falling ??? at that time but for the commander of the 509th bomb group to relate these in the press on the 7th of July, well let just say that would have been straight to the rubber room for him.

I try to deal with just the bits I know for sure, and for me it makes extraordinary.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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Well that's a logical post and a valid question:

Originally posted by MAC269
Otherwise how could you possible come up with “Captured a Flying Disc” from the described wreckage.


Nobody really knows, but that newspaper article might have a clue:

www.ufologie.net...


Brazel related that on June 14 he and 8-year old son Vernon were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J.B. Foster ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.

At the time Brazel was in a hurry to get his round made and he did not pay much attention to it. But he did remark about what he had seen and on July 4 he, his wife, Vernon and a daughter Betty, age 14, went back to the spot and gathered up quite a bit of the debris.

The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these.


So how did he come up with that term flying disk? I'm not trying to convince you of it, just repeating what the newspaper article reported:
"The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these."

When everyone is talking about flying disks, you can have flying disks on the brain. It's a possibility, but I agree with you completely, the description of the material sounds nothing like a flying disc. But years later Jesse Marcel described almost the same debris, except the foil had magical properties like you could hit it with a sledge hammer and nothing would happen...wait...that's not so magical, I did the same thing to my tinfoil and nothing happened to mine either.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by desert_eagle
 


If you look at the period there was nothing the germans were doing that we were not doing ourselves. Both contributed tot he overall knowledge available. What they did to prisoners we were doing to prisoners here as well, even after the war. these practices were not stopped until it became a taboo. When it did become a taboo, the projects merely went private instead of public.



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