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Prophecy from a 3 year-old?

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posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeker1984

Originally posted by tellmemoreok
I can't believe how far people will stretch something to come up with some "out-of-this-world" explanation.
A 3-year old kid can say Anything. Thousands of them do every single day. The only difference is their parents aren't members of ATS. That's the only difference.
I hate to be the one to break the news but this isn't a prophecy..I'm sitting here laughing because I cannot believe all the people here who think it may be.

My 3-year old nephew once pointed at a turd while it was flushing down the toilet, and cried "Look, it's spinning, they're all going to die!"


Like I said before, why spend the time and effort of writing a post when all you are going to do is be ignorant and not at least consider the possibilities?




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker


It is not ignorant to say 3 yr old children say lots of random things. Your ignorance, truthseeker, is assuming that there is something more to this than the sayings of a child.

A person you don't know personally comes on a forum and says my 3 yr old predicts that a lot of people will die --- and your message truthseeker is that if we don't believe it we should not bother posting?

That is not the way things work. People on this board have the ability to think for themselves and not take every word posted here as absolute truth without asking themselves -- wait does that make any sense? It is not ignorance that we don't believe a 3 yr old can see the future and is warning us of impending apocalyptic doom.

It would be wise, not ignorant, to test the validity of these claims, and not just accept them.

If you are so one-minded/disturbed that you can't deal with logical criticism, maybe you should take your own advice and not bother to post.


Originally posted by truthseeker1984
There are things out there that we cannot see and we cannot possibly comprehend without training, and science inevitably does not have all the answers. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Keep us updated on what you find, and if you need help please feel free to U2U me. I am an open book of knowledge of this type.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

[edit on 9-5-2010 by truthseeker1984]


Edit: I love that you quote Rumsfeld with "absence of evidence", obvious fail

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 9-5-2010 by pepesilvia]

[edit on 9-5-2010 by pepesilvia]

[edit on 10-5-2010 by pepesilvia]

[edit on 10-5-2010 by pepesilvia]




posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by pepesilvia

Originally posted by truthseeker1984

Originally posted by tellmemoreok
I can't believe how far people will stretch something to come up with some "out-of-this-world" explanation.
A 3-year old kid can say Anything. Thousands of them do every single day. The only difference is their parents aren't members of ATS. That's the only difference.
I hate to be the one to break the news but this isn't a prophecy..I'm sitting here laughing because I cannot believe all the people here who think it may be.

My 3-year old nephew once pointed at a turd while it was flushing down the toilet, and cried "Look, it's spinning, they're all going to die!"


Like I said before, why spend the time and effort of writing a post when all you are going to do is be ignorant and not at least consider the possibilities?




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker


It is not ignorant to say 3 yr old children say lots of random things. Your ignorance, truthseeker, is assuming that there is something more to this than the sayings of a child.

A person you don't know personally comes on a forum and says my 3 yr old predicts that a lot of people will die --- and your message truthseeker is that if we don't believe it we should not bother posting?

That is not the way things work. People on this board have the ability to think for themselves and not take every word posted here as absolute truth without asking themselves -- wait does that make any sense? It is not ignorance that we don't believe a 3 yr old can see the future and is warning us of impending apocalyptic doom.

It would be wise, not ignorant, to test the validity of these claims, and not just accept them.

If you are so one-minded/disturbed that you can't deal with logical criticism, maybe you should take your own advice and not bother to post.


You are twisting my words, friend. I am basing my opinions on experience in this field. I am accepting to all views, but to blatantly be rude and arrogant to the poster, who is obviously looking for a well-rounded view on the topic, is quite the definition of ignorance. Logical criticism would include doing research into the topic before shouting off an anecdote about your nephew watching feces spin down the toilet. And you are right, it is wise to be critical of these claims, however you have done nothing but make a personal attack. Now, had you posted some brain studies or done some research on this phenomena, maybe I would have been more willing to listen to what you had to say. Unfortunately, you had to take the route of an unfounded personal attack against the OP.


Who is ignorant now?



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

[edit on 9-5-2010 by truthseeker1984]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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This has to be a HOAX. The OP is acting like his kid is a CIA brainwash who cannot be cracked. You're his parent, you can ask him as many questions as you want, and if this really happened, you'd still be questioning him. If he didn't answer, you'd find a hypnotist and get the story out of him. You also keep adding things not in the first post, like the water level raising 9 ft, that you would put in the OP if he truly said it, IMHO.

H

O

A

X

This story is just too much. No 3 year old would not be able to be bribed, and there were MANY questions you could have asked him, just from the first few replies, that would have narrowed this "vision" down that you were adamant not to even try as he's a Russian super secret keeper.


[edit on 9-5-2010 by breakingdradles]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by passenger
 


I believe passenger and everything passenger has told us, and it's only right that passenger should be concerned about what passengers son has said, especially about passenger dying. That would be quite upsetting, at least for right now, until passenger finds out more.

There is the possibility that passengers son knows something and if passengers son really does know something, then it's in passengers best interest to find out what passenger can find out. If passengers son really does know something, then if passenger finds out what it is, then passenger can change time and save passengers own life by having the knowledge ahead of time and making plans to circumvent the end, virtually creating a new future.

Time is of the essense to find out what passengers son really knows, before he forgets what he knows. Passenger will have to show passenger's guile and cunning nature in order to tell us what the boy knows, and this will be intriguing to watch play out.

Here's another reason why I'm truly interested in passengers safety. Here is an interview by Andrew Basiago, a New York lawyer who has claimed that the Naval Intelligence in 1971 sent Andy into the future to 2013 to the Supreme Court building in Washington D.C. and found it 100-200 feet under water with algae growing on it. You may want to listen to the whole program, but here is the part of the interview about that particular case.

www.youtube.com...

There used to be another YouTube video about a man who was hypnotized and taken into the future and he stated New York City, New York was completely under water. He was very disturbed when he realized that the city was completly under water. He also claimed there was a nuclear war in 2014, which actually coincides with Baba Vanga's prophecy.

www.theastralworld.com...

I believe that passenger is honest and needs to find out what the boy knows for passengers own sake. Good luck passenger.



[edit on 9-5-2010 by RussianScientists]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by RussianScientists
reply to post by passenger
 


I believe passenger and everything passenger has told us, and it's only right that passenger should be concerned about what passengers son has said, especially about passenger dying. That would be quite upsetting, at least for right now, until passenger finds out more.

There is the possibility that passengers son knows something and if passengers son really does know something, then it's in passengers best interest to find out what passenger can find out. If passengers son really does know something, then if passenger finds out what it is, then passenger can change time and save passengers own life by having the knowledge ahead of time and making plans to circumvent the end, virtually creating a new future.

Time is of the essense to find out what passengers son really knows, before he forgets what he knows. Passenger will have to show us his guile and cunning nature in order to tell us what the boy knows, and this will be intriguing to watch play out.

Here's another reason why I'm truly interested in passengers safety. Here is an interview by Andrew Basiago, a New York lawyer who has claimed that the Naval Intelligence in 1971 sent Andy into the future to 2013 to the Supreme Court building in Washington D.C. and found it 100-200 feet under water with algae growing on it. You may want to listen to the whole program, but here is the part of the interview about that particular case.

www.youtube.com...

There used to be another YouTube video about a man who was hypnotized and taken into the future and he stated New York City, New York was completely under water. He was very disturbed when he realized that the city was completly under water. He also claimed there was a nuclear war in 2014, which actually coincides with Baba Vanga's prophecy.

www.theastralworld.com...

I believe that passenger is honest and needs to find out what the boy knows for passengers own sake. Good luck passenger.



This is why I think it's a HOAX. He obviously believes the kid, and has since day 1. If his kid said this, and told him he was going to die, I think he would keep asking questions until he found out what he wanted to.

If your kid told you that you and your wife were going to die, and you believed him, would you let him just leave it at that, because he is a super secret keeping 3 year old that no one can crack?

Or would you leave it at a cliff hanger and make a post on the most famous sci fi and end of the world hoax forum ever.




[edit on 9-5-2010 by breakingdradles]



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by breakingdradles
 


I see nothing wrong with the way passenger has handled this whole ordeal. Passenger is just looking for logical input from others to see what they/we think passenger should do. We should thank passenger for referencing all of us here at ATS in this matter. It may turn out to be nothing, but on the other hand passengers life could be at stake.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by tellmemoreok
..................
I hate to be the one to break the news but this isn't a prophecy..I'm sitting here laughing because I cannot believe all the people here who think it may be.


Then that means you are too young and too stupid for your own good. Don't worry there are lots of people like you out there.

BTW, age really has not much to do with it, but your laughing at what other people believe, whether it is true or not it shows you to be nothing but another self-righteous immature little kid.

What is the constructive discusion at your attemps at ridiculing people for what they think, or they believe?...

Are you feeling better now that you mention you laughing at what other people think?...

You don't like threads like this one, and this goes for everyone else, DON'T RESPOND.... Hell you don't even have to read them....

Christ the stupid people in this world... They think they are smarter because they don't think, or believe what others do....


[edit on 10-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:04 AM
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LOL some of the descriptions of your sons' behaviors are hilarious! I actually laughed out loud at the part about "this is coming form the same person who has an emotional collapse if he kind find his fav toy." haha..

But on a serious note, I have to admit something: I have had the "dreams". They were alot more frequent when I was a kid, but as time passes, and you "lose some of your innocence" exponentially (not only from maturity in your own experience, but also due to being exposed to the wickedness' of the world), the dreams are fewer and fewer. The ones I remember from childhood were somewhat frightening at times, due to content, but make no mistake: there is a DIFFERENCE in these "dreams" and regular dreams/nightmares, and you can tell. These "dreams" (if they can be called that) are not only vivid and detail/color filled, there is also a mood attached that is not 'like real"- it IS real. I dont know much about new-age stuff, but I can tell you from experience that I would name it closer to "time travel" somehow, than "dreams" or "visions". Maybe "visions of the future". It is literally like watching a DVD later ahead in the movie, and when you awake its like you are back at the last scene you remember before the "skip ahead" was utilized. There are distinct features in the "dream" that are tangible. Senses are utilized.

THIS IS NOT LUCID DREAMING, THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE.

I do not claim to be a scholar in in the field of whatever this "experience" or "instance" is- the only things I can say for sure are: your kid isnt lying or "running his imagination wild" like so many armchair psychiatrists on ATS seem to diagnose. I was very frightened of these "dreams" when I was around 23-24 (Im 33 now). I searched far and wide to find out what was "wrong" with me, but as you can imagine people will think your are insane if you tell them you have "dreams" of the "future". I have found others that have this ability or connection. Some of them have harnessed it to great levels and can "control" it. I cannot. I just have one of the dreams every once in a while and try to "decipher" it (sometimes its not so much a situation, as it is "clues" or "codes" to something about to happen in your life in the "real world').

I read every one of the posts on this thread to see what the various opinions are on this, before I announced my point of view (due to personal experience.) I saw some posts back there about "the grey room", and I think these 2 experiences are not the same. I have also experienced the "travelling to the grey area/room" as well as a type of what I first thought was sleep paralysis. I would like to try to at least provide some insight into these 3 things to make sure that there are clear borders on each situation, respectively. I can tell you are very worried about your kid and even tho I dont have any kids, Im aware of that parent/child bond and you KNOW in your heart that your kid isnt lying, despite how confused you are by "where did he pick up this level of detail about info regarding 2012/earth changes?!" so here goes my best attempt:

"future dreaming" (for lack of a better term besides remote viewing or out of body experience or time travelling):
When this occurs, it will seem so much like real life, that when you awake you will think that THAT was reality and THIS is the dream for a few minutes, because the lines were so heavily blurred between the two. Not the most recent time it happened to me, but the one before that (2004):
I remember (in the "dream") pulling up to friend 1's house with friend 2 (I was driving), we get out, its dark outside, we are walking towards the front steps of friend 1's house and friend 2 notices something in the sky and says "Oh sh*t! what is that?!" then I look where friend 2 is looking/pointing in the dark night sky at what appears to be a large comet or something, then it seems like the earth "spins" (like you can feel it, equilibrium disturbance and it seems hard to stand up because of this loss of balance)then as the earth is spinning, it seems like the sun is coming up really fast, but its getting closer at the same time. My last thought/instinct is like fearful/angry as the "sun" ( maybe is something else) seems about to impact with the earth, I react by starting to (for some reason) jump up in the air, hoping to "block" it by kicking it with both feet, but by the time the motion is completed, it seems to have been impacting far away from me, or maybe just coming very near earth. All of this takes place in 4-5 seconds, and just as I realize Im not impacting the object, I also realize I am not falling to earth on my head as I would expect. This is about the time I woke up, sweating and yelling and my g/f saying "whats wrong whats wrong" and I was convinced for about 10 minutes that it was real and now I was dead or dreaming. After about 1/2 a pack of ciggs I was able to relay to her the "dream". There were other "dreams" relevant in the past, but that one was way to realistic and pretty much rounded up all the data I could recall from past "dreams" that were relevant.

The "grey room/area" or the "corridors" or "long curving hallway" are something else I think. Also, VERY realistic and engaging, I am concerned about this because in my experience, I was "lead" (like walking with someone and talking, but I cant see them) around the corridor to a small dark grey room with a rectangular window where I could see into the "grey room" and there were others inside there and whatever they were doing, they couldnt see me like a 2-way mirror. The "guide" that lead me there that I couldnt see, was asking me questions about the people inside the grey rooms' behaviors, but not in a bothersome way. It was like a gentle conversation about subtle things or concepts, but its not like a voice "outloud", more like my own voice, played back to me with questions I would not ask, and also my voice seemed a little unfamiliar, as I noticed my grammar was more like it was me reading, and not so much my tones and accent in a normal conversation. The line of questioning was along the lines of "why do you smile?" or "would this make you smile?", and then it was slightly more advanced questions until I didnt know the answers and they would go back to topics where more could be derived from me due to my personal knowledge of something about human behaviors. It seems like a very long time, and it is not uncomfortable for the most part.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by breakingdradles
 


See, that's what true detective work is all about. You make formulations based on the postings, and then come to a logical conclusion, as opposed to making a personal attack on the OP. I am still on the fence about this, although I have seen enough of this in my lifetime to be a little bit more believing of what the OP has to say. I've done quite a few investigations of alleged hauntings where the young child is seeing things that the parents obviously cannot. The parents get freaked because stuff starts happening, and they call me. I've only done about 5 cases involving young children, but out of those 5, I believe I got 2 that were actual hauntings of some type. I'll have to go back through my files because the last one I did involving a young child was in 2001, and I don't remember all the details off the top of my head. This makes me believe that there may be something more to this than just the musings of a three year old child. If they can indeed experience paranormal phenomena, then it isn't such a stretch to say that they may be able to be pre-cogs as well.

I will have to read up more about child development studies and some stuff from Jung before I can say for sure whether or not this was just a bad dream. My gut instinct is telling me that it wasn't, and I'm not usually wrong with that instinct. I guess for the sake of the OP, I hope my gut instinct is wrong and that this is all a hoax, as you said. Something tells me from the language and the way that the post was written that it isn't.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:09 AM
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I have noticed a lot of threads were dreams are predicting a lot of the future. But here is one that even Edgar Cacey has stated that in 2100 the west will be underwater and he will be reborn in Nebraska. The parents are a name he doesn't recognize. I almost thought passenger's kid dream almost sounded like the knowing by Nicholas cage. Where the kids get taken up by visitors. But in that movie everybody dies by fire.

I don't know what too believe any more, but just that things keep on getting weirder and weirder.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:09 AM
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Try to find out more by making the event something you can TRICK him into giving info..

Maybe ask him tomorrow morning, "Am I going to die today?" in the same conversational tone as him.

Ask is it going to be when he is a little bigger or when he has kids because you want to get his mother a present before the water comes..

--

I dunno man,, very strange story but if it's bothering you that much, just be sure not to over-question from nerves.

...

b



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:11 AM
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For a 3 yr old to come off with something like that is scary. Most 3 yr olds would not even comprehend anything like this. I don't care if they did watch 2012, there minds can't grasp the meaning of such stuff.
I know many kids this age that are still learning how to say or pronounce the simplest of words. I do know there are children this age that have a better vocabulary/comprehension than some, but still......

It could possibly be a message from God, you never know. He could be revealing something he wants us to know, what better way but through a child, who is pure and innocent. God speaks to us through his word and people won't listen, they disregard the bible as a fairytale. But what IF it is revealed through a child, would people listen then??

"He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you,
I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision
I shall speak with him in a dream."
Numbers 12:6

And It shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my spirit upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy and your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams.
Acts 2:17

I will be watching this thread to see if you get any more info from your child.
This is very interesting indeed.......



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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this is surely something huge coming from a 3 yr old

tho i think that maybe while he was at the party they were watching Knowing and 2012
and when he went to bed, ended up dreaming about it, then woke up with those thoughts
still vivid in his mind and relayed that to the first person he spoke to and thinks is all true cuz of being a very fresh dream, seeing as it's still so fresh in his mind and didnt know what to make of it himself.

and if he didnt watch either of those movies ever
then that is very errie indeed.


Marshall



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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Except I could feel myself becoming slightly annoyed at the fact that I was being "studied" in a fashion.

And I guess lucid dreams are lucid dreams, but anyone that has had the "future dreams" or the "grey room/hallway/corridor" dreams know thats not what that is, and they know what I mean.

The thing that concerned me is that sometimes your kid does things and blames it on the "mouse". I think this info was also derived from the "mouse" and the "mouse" is a little voice that sometimes tells him to do things, but he has detected a pattern of: "when I tell mommy and daddy the "mouse" told me to do something, I get in trouble. Therefore, Im not going to tell daddy that I heard all this from the "mouse" because he'll either get mad or not believe me." I know a little kid may not have that mapped out of an idea, but you can see my point here. The only thing is, its not that big of a deal if the mouse tell him to feed the dog all that bologna or color on the wall with crayons- these are basically harmless and victimless crimes. If the mouse told him to push aunt Jean down the stairs, I would REALLY start to worry about the identity of the mouse. This is also somewhat relevant to what I was saying about "sleep paralysis". I know others have this and there is varying degrees of it. Sometimes you can fight it off and force yourself awake, and a few times I felt as if someone very strong or heavy was holding me down as I awoke in my house alone and while my eyes were open was deriving pleasure out of watching me squirm, as I couldnt seem to move any muscles or call out for help. It lasted for about 20 minutes and I immediately moved out, because I thought it was a demon or something.

There is something going on, and your kid is not full of shet. If you listen to any random stranger on here telling you to ignore or punish your child, you are taking their side over his. He's not lying to you. And, as a bonus, the fact that he is willing to tell you guys means that he obviously cares and wants you to survive, but you are doing it to yourself. Think of it this way: if your wife does not believe him, and in his eyes she is already a goner, when she gives you "the Look" and you buckle under because you dont want friction with her, well, you just sealed your own fate. Because she is closed minded to things of that nature, and you are afraid of her opinion, you have decided your destiny as a result. IMO, you should non-chalantly ask your boy if the mouse said we were all gonna die. Make sure you tell him that you are not going to be mad, because not everything the mouse says is bad, only when the mouse tells you to do stuff and you dont tell mommy or daddy immediately because the mouse is not the boss. If he is willing to admit that the mouse told him, then you might wanna explore who the mouse is.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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Why don't you ask your son why he isn't upset that his family is going to die?



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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It's a 3 year old kid not a Guantanamo Bay terrorist were talking about here. not a really good idea to try and "crack" a 3 year old child for information this disturbing. You don't want to needlessly upset this child anymore than it already has been by having these visions of his family perishing. Get a grip. To call this a HOAX is ridiculous. Do you know this child do you know his family or are you just upset with how much attention this thread has garnered.

Thank you OP I found your post fascinating. I hope the child is at peace with this information and I hope he is wrong, but I have to wonder. It all does seem to be spiraling out of control sometimes.

S & F



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by 12.13.2012

There is something going on, and your kid is not full of shet. If you listen to any random stranger on here telling you to ignore or punish your child, you are taking their side over his. He's not lying to you. And, as a bonus, the fact that he is willing to tell you guys means that he obviously cares and wants you to survive, but you are doing it to yourself. Think of it this way: if your wife does not believe him, and in his eyes she is already a goner, when she gives you "the Look" and you buckle under because you dont want friction with her, well, you just sealed your own fate. Because she is closed minded to things of that nature, and you are afraid of her opinion, you have decided your destiny as a result. IMO, you should non-chalantly ask your boy if the mouse said we were all gonna die. Make sure you tell him that you are not going to be mad, because not everything the mouse says is bad, only when the mouse tells you to do stuff and you dont tell mommy or daddy immediately because the mouse is not the boss. If he is willing to admit that the mouse told him, then you might wanna explore who the mouse is.


very well thought out reply


and yeah, he's had to have gotten all of the story he's mentioned from something or someone.

would be good to find out who or what has told him all of this.

Marshall



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by andrewh7
 





Agreed. Who sits around analyzing a 3 year old's bad dreams looking for prophecies? Seriously. The OP needs to call child services and give up custody of their kid to someone whose head is screwed on properly


This is the type of thing someone with the mentality of a marsupial might say. No one shoud give up their children to child services. Not even people who murder their children. Giving them up to c.s. is the same thing as murdering them if you ask me. Besides O.P. has written of the way he protects his child. Sounds good enough to me.

You however ........

[edit on 10-5-2010 by randyvs]



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:33 AM
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Its me again, the denier (yeah one tagged me)

I respect the opinion and thoughts of those who believe that the child may actually be trying to "warn" or to caution his/her family about certain upcoming events. But let us not jump into conclusions all so suddenly that the child was prophecising or otherwise, maybe he had a bad dream, he was pissed. Or maybe he just realized that ALL people have an expiration date, but his was still way off into the future.

Then again, the possibilities are endless.


@ElectricUniverse = If you believe us "deniers" shouldn't participate in threads, for one I'm not bashing the TS or offending anyone. Thing is, if everyone agreed with the TS, would this still be a forum? If no one challenged the idea then would this still be an intellectual exchange? And yeah, no need to use the words stupid or other degrading adejctives, its rather childish (no pun intended). Peace.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by btyoung21]



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by btyoung21
Its me again, the denier (yeah one tagged me)

I respect the opinion and thoughts of those who believe that the child may actually be trying to "warn" or to caution his/her family about certain upcoming events. But let us not jump into conclusions all so suddenly that the child was prophecising or otherwise, maybe he had a bad dream, he was pissed. Or maybe he just realized that ALL people have an expiration date, but his was still way off into the future.

Then again, the possibilities are endless.


@ElectricUniverse = If you believe us "deniers" shouldn't participate in threads, for one I'm not bashing the TS or offending anyone. Thing is, if everyone agreed with the TS, would this still be a forum? If no one challenged the idea then would this still be an intellectual exchange? And yeah, no need to use the words stupid or other degrading adejctives, its rather childish (no pun intended). Peace.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by btyoung21]


In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with being a "denier." It is just as important for those of us who may believe in what this child says to stay civil, just as it is important for the debunkers to stay civil. There is too much left-wing right-wing fighting going on in ATS lately, and quite frankly, it's starting to piss me off. You're right, you have offended nobody, and have only called forth the validity of the claims the OP made. You have every right to do that, as long as it stays in a civil tongue. Logical, well-thought out arguments (that don't turn into potty jokes) should be encouraged from both sides. Isn't that what this site is all about? So, thank you btyoung21, for staying civil and being respectful.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker




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