Revelation; The Sixth Seal

reply to post by Danbones

I add a link to a more recent thread, relating to the opening chapter of Revelation, which sets the scene;
Fear Not

reply to post by DISRAELI


" The martyrs can see the work of God in all these events, and they welcome it.
The people of the world at large can see the work of God in all these events, and
it makes them horrified".

There must be alot of martyrs on ATS considering many are expecting the
worst and many of those probably welcome it. Though I can't speak for anyone
except myself, I think many people see the need for real change, even long for it.
Just another sign of the troubled times we live in, with a silver lining I might add.

reply to post by Mr. D

Thank you for those comments.
I'd better observe that in that scenario the events were being "welcomed" by those who were already dead. I didn't imagine that anyone who was actually living through them, even if they were Christian, could be quite so objective.
I think many on ATS, perhaps the younger ones, may be "looking forward" to drastic changes without fully realising what the experience would be like.

When I hear about such places as the Denver airport and the seed banks, I think of the scriptures about people hiding in caves. Good thread.

reply to post by DISRAELI
Are the times we live in today any worse than other times in history? even with all the wars going on people are much more empathetic and connected than in any time in history.Wasn't the dark ages much more violent?people were tortured in the most heinous ways back then,why now?In my opinion these seals have been opening up for quite a few centuries.

Originally posted by TWILITE22
Are the times we live in today any worse than other times in history? ...why now?

The answer to your question is that nothing in this thread, or in any of my other threads on Revelation, identifies the fulfilment of Revelation with "now".
The only thing I have ever **said about the timing of the Revelation events is that the events described in ch6 are so drastic -especially as summed up in v8- that the world has not seen them yet. As far as I'm concerned, the fulfilement of the whole of Revelation lies at some unknown point in the future.

**PS Except that near the end of "Time, Times, and half a Time" I point out that the prophecies of Revelation must be fulfilled, if they're going to be fulfulled at all, while the human race still exists. As I observed at the time, that does impose a kind of deadline, especially when the modern self-destructive capacities of the human race are taken into consideration.

reply to post by Mr. D

I'm now attaching a link to my more recent thread relating to ch4 of this book, which focusses on the place of the Creator God at the heart of all the events of Revelation;

In the presence of God

C'mon guys, it seems that you all had failed to COMPREHEND the purpose behind the revelations, despite the faith and intelligence behind it.

It is meant to serve as a warning to our Creator's children - you and me and every human. Predictions are only a PROBABILITY of what will happen if we do not heed the message given, no matter how perfect such predictions will be, for we humans had been given the gift of free will, an universal law that cannot be violated unless we ourselves harm others and universal laws.

We still have a choice. It does not matter if none of the seals had been broken, or the last seal had just been broken and doom awaits tomorrow. As long as you and I are alive, all we need to do is to do the right thing and be on the right track once again, and if even there is a few among us doing it, do know that there will be Divine Mercy, for our Creator DO love us all, and only hope, like every mortal father, that given time we can change, for His spirit and love dwells within us.

Thus fret not, and if we do love mankind as He does, it is our responsibility to get everyone else on the right track to achieve common aspirations in life, BUT on their free will and never to impose, using only logic and reason, no matter the differences that set us all apart, to fulfil our destiny, and we will survive whatever calamities in store.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
C'mon guys, it seems that you all had failed to COMPREHEND the purpose behind the revelations, despite the faith and intelligence behind it.

It does not matter if none of the seals had been broken, or the last seal had just been broken and doom awaits tomorrow.

If you double-check the OP, you will find that I'm not the one saying the sixth seal has just been broken.
That's the other thread.
My own position on the timing is that all six seals are still ahead of us.

As far as I'm concerned, from an overview of the book as a whole, the function of Revelation is to encourage the peristent faith of the Christian church during a time of persecution.
"This is a call for the endurance of the saints"- ch13 v10, ch14 v12

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It's kind of his fault if we are so astray as he provides no guidance. He trusts the will of men, which by definition is flawed, greedy and cruel.

You cannot say "provides no guidance".
The existence of the Bible is supposed to be guidance.
The fact that the Christian believer is surrouded by other Christian believers is supposed to be guidance.
As for the frequency of God's appearance, I'm not going to try to dictate to him how often he ought to be doing things

But God didn't write the bible, people over a period of centuries wrote the bible, changed it's contents, translated it into different languages, which I might add completely changes the meaning of scripture.

It's a man made piece of literature, therefore MAN'S influence is the prime guider of the Bible, not God.

~Keeper

Well ok just for you lets just look at this one book of the Revelation. It was written in greek and we have some amazingly old copies of it. As well we have many copies of it and they show no changes to speak of even though some of the copies are 100s of years apart in age. As far as translating there are more greek schoolers than ever and they have been going over this book for some time now, in the greek and can translate better than ever. Please study these things you will be amazed if you care.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
C'mon guys, it seems that you all had failed to COMPREHEND the purpose behind the revelations, despite the faith and intelligence behind it.

It does not matter if none of the seals had been broken, or the last seal had just been broken and doom awaits tomorrow.

If you double-check the OP, you will find that I'm not the one saying the sixth seal has just been broken.
That's the other thread.
My own position on the timing is that all six seals are still ahead of us.

As far as I'm concerned, from an overview of the book as a whole, the function of Revelation is to encourage the peristent faith of the Christian church during a time of persecution.
"This is a call for the endurance of the saints"- ch13 v10, ch14 v12

edit on 23-12-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Yes and those that overcome will play harps on the sea of glass....not clouds as some have said but they will play harps.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
C'mon guys, it seems that you all had failed to COMPREHEND the purpose behind the revelations, despite the faith and intelligence behind it.

It is meant to serve as a warning to our Creator's children - you and me and every human. Predictions are only a PROBABILITY of what will happen if we do not heed the message given, no matter how perfect such predictions will be, for we humans had been given the gift of free will, an universal law that cannot be violated unless we ourselves harm others and universal laws.

We still have a choice. It does not matter if none of the seals had been broken, or the last seal had just been broken and doom awaits tomorrow. As long as you and I are alive, all we need to do is to do the right thing and be on the right track once again, and if even there is a few among us doing it, do know that there will be Divine Mercy, for our Creator DO love us all, and only hope, like every mortal father, that given time we can change, for His spirit and love dwells within us.

It really goes way beyound that. There is a line in the book about those that dont take the mark of the beast ect that had there names "writen in the book of life before the foundation of the earth". That its to the people in the last generation maybe like every generation that come out of the womb like Jeremiah know in the womb and before hand, names written in the book before the world was ever formed. Thats how deep this goes. As far as your mercy, time to change and my point the same book records that they will not repent even under great pain. The gulf between them and us is clear more here than ever. So be it.

Originally posted by TWILITE22
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

Are the times we live in today any worse than other times in history? even with all the wars going on people are much more empathetic and connected than in any time in history.Wasn't the dark ages much more violent?people were tortured in the most heinous ways back then,why now?In my opinion these seals have been opening up for quite a few centuries.

Yes in type but now days we see these this opening whiel in conjunction with the book of Daniel which they must do amoung other things. This wasnt true back say 500 years ago.

I think that the reason your threads don't get flamed, is because you present a cogent and eloquent debate. Of course, I reside in the "opposite camp" to you, if you will, but I still read your threads with interest.

Dis, another fine thread. Your organized way of thinking is right up my alley. I'm not so sure I see these things as God's wrath, but as the final reward of the wages of Sin. The great unwashed are just going to get what's coming to them. I would certainly prefer all flesh be saved, but it appears that isn't going to happen. We all know that the time will be shortened, or else even the Elect will be decieved. We must therefore keep watch and test the Spirits. If God is to draw His People close to Him at the time near the end, I find the answer in Scripture and in Prayer to God directly. Seek God actively, ask Him to teach you the Truth every single day. Ask Him for a pure Heart so that you will be able to hear His Voice. Do your best to eliminate all the Sin from your life that you possibly can. It seems to me to be the only way we can truly follow His Will. Sin is obvious but can also be very subtle. Things will be revealed to us in due time, as we are ready to receive them. We are told to work out our Salvation in "fear and trembling", maybe that just means due diligance on our part. Maybe it just means in sincerity. What could be more important?

Originally posted by deadred
Dis, another fine thread. Your organized way of thinking is right up my alley. I'm not so sure I see these things as God's wrath, but as the final reward of the wages of Sin. The great unwashed are just going to get what's coming to them. I would certainly prefer all flesh be saved, but it appears that isn't going to happen.

No its wrath friend. Ripe like cluster of grapes tossed into the press and comes out blood. You would prefer all flesh be saved....how pious of you.

Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

You should check your attitude against scripture to be sure that your heart is right and not pernicious toward the ways of God.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
C'mon guys, it seems that you all had failed to COMPREHEND the purpose behind the revelations, despite the faith and intelligence behind it.

It is meant to serve as a warning to our Creator's children - you and me and every human. Predictions are only a PROBABILITY of what will happen if we do not heed the message given, no matter how perfect such predictions will be, for we humans had been given the gift of free will, an universal law that cannot be violated unless we ourselves harm others and universal laws.

It is clear that at a certain point in the book that freewill is no longer in play. Certinly by the time the seals start opening....it will be those that have the mark of God in their forehead and those that dont. And these are not probabilites but sure days to come.

We still have a choice. It does not matter if none of the seals had been broken, or the last seal had just been broken and doom awaits tomorrow. As long as you and I are alive, all we need to do is to do the right thing and be on the right track once again, and if even there is a few among us doing it, do know that there will be Divine Mercy, for our Creator DO love us all, and only hope, like every mortal father, that given time we can change, for His spirit and love dwells within us.

There is a point "in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished..."

Thus fret not, and if we do love mankind as He does, it is our responsibility to get everyone else on the right track to achieve common aspirations in life, BUT on their free will and never to impose, using only logic and reason, no matter the differences that set us all apart, to fulfil our destiny, and we will survive whatever calamities in store.

We shall survive the calamities if we have His name written on us. At this point we should forget common aspirations and seperate the sheep from the goats.

There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #10 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic signifcance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
C'mon guys, it seems that you all had failed to COMPREHEND the purpose behind the revelations, despite the faith and intelligence behind it.

It is meant to serve as a warning to our Creator's children - you and me and every human. Predictions are only a PROBABILITY of what will happen if we do not heed the message given, no matter how perfect such predictions will be, for we humans had been given the gift of free will, an universal law that cannot be violated unless we ourselves harm others and universal laws.

We still have a choice. It does not matter if none of the seals had been broken, or the last seal had just been broken and doom awaits tomorrow. As long as you and I are alive, all we need to do is to do the right thing and be on the right track once again, and if even there is a few among us doing it, do know that there will be Divine Mercy, for our Creator DO love us all, and only hope, like every mortal father, that given time we can change, for His spirit and love dwells within us.

It really goes way beyound that. There is a line in the book about those that dont take the mark of the beast ect that had there names "writen in the book of life before the foundation of the earth". That its to the people in the last generation maybe like every generation that come out of the womb like Jeremiah know in the womb and before hand, names written in the book before the world was ever formed. Thats how deep this goes. As far as your mercy, time to change and my point the same book records that they will not repent even under great pain. The gulf between them and us is clear more here than ever. So be it.

This has always bothered me. If those who will be saved, had their names written in the book of life before earth was even created, then what's the point in anything? You have no true free will or choice. What you do in life doesn't matter because your name is either written there or it's not, and there's nothing you can do about it. I wonder if I am interpreting this incorrectly?