Ban "2nd Liners" - Sorry but I must vent.

I know this has been discussed before but in light of the record traffic highs and number of new members I feel it's important to bring this up.

Specifically, I'm talking about the folks that make a one-line post, and then feel that, to avoid breaking the T&Cs, they must add something to make it 'more than one line' - and this usually ends up being the words "2nd line".

I know this is one of those things that the staff has 'given up on' - saying they've tried to enforce it but that people just don't get it. But I believe that is waffle. The very fact that some people are doing this means they read the T&Cs but just didn't understand them. In other words, they were 'trained' to do this, and can be trained not to.

Not to mention the mentality behind this - they have completely missed they whole point of the 'no one-liner' rule, which is in reference to post content and not quantity of words. To think that adding those words could possibly do anything useful on any level is - and I'm sorry to say - COMPLETELY MORONIC. And since it seems to be happening more and more, it is affecting the overall quality of the site.

I looked at ABOUT ATS: Warnings for one line or short responses and this is not addressed, but again I say, if people can be taught that short responses aren't acceptable, they can be taught WHY, and be made to understand that simply adding the words "2nd line" is also not acceptable. If they just can't get something that simple then what can they really be expected to add here?

My suggestion? Create a filter in the posting dialogue that would find variations of the words 'second line' in shorter posts, and before allowing the post to actually go to the thread, display a message explaining the T&Cs more clearly and directly, letting the poster know why they are seeing that message. If they send it through anyway, an automatic 'alert' would go to the mods, who could then decide whether or not to give a temporary post ban and warning to the poster.

I know this could create more work for the mods, but I believe the filter would do most of it for them - reducing the amount that actually needed their attention. And I may just be overreacting to this, but I think it would be worth it to try to eliminate it. It really looks stupid, and makes it hard for me to listen to anything else that poster ever says.

I also think a similar filter could be used for new threads containing the word "Pravda" - a little note explaining what Pravda is, and something along the lines of, "so post this only if you understand the above and wish to proceed anyway". But that's another thread.


[edit - clarity]

[edit on 5/9/2010 by Teratoma]

reply to post by Teratoma


I agree.

2nd line.

reply to post by LiveForever8


So, what you're saying is that you want to be banned and for me to think of you as "completely moronic"?

Kidding of course, but instead of typing this line I should've just made 20 "winking" emoticons.

The point of that rule is that you can make a one line post, as long as it brings something to the thread.
However, comments like "I agree", or "Totally." are supposed to be moderated.
The issue is, on the flagpole of issues that are presented to moderators, and unless you flag these, they're usually ignored, they are very ow on the raise.

And even when the are brought up, the tend to be passed over in favour of one thread or anotehr.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
The point of that rule is that you can make a one line post, as long as it brings something to the thread.

I know; I didn't even mention that in my rant, but when you consider that; it's even more infuriating.

And my suggestion is to have the "flags" you mention (though I believe you're talking about "alerts") be handled automatically.

Cripes, I'd volunteer my time as a mod if it could be strictly my job to deal with each one of these personally (and by predetermined protocols). I guarantee that after a short period of time working hard at schooling them, my workload would decrease, and then I could retire.

And I guess that would mean that the simplest solution would be if a all of us just used the 'alert' button on each offending post?

I always feel like a "rat" when I use that thing. Notice the present tense "use" in that sentence. I've "alerted" an offense or two (ore maybe 10) in my time so...

From now on, I am going to click "alert" every time I see that, and I urge anyone who agrees with me to do the same thing. If it creates so much work for the mods that they get sick of it too, they'll come up with a better solution.

Otherwise it just sends the message that no one cares about all those ridiculous "2nd lines".

...It would be just as easy to create a filter that deleted the "2nd" line itself. Do that and I'll just shut up!

I have seen other threads about this, like Can we eliminate the '2nd line' nonsense?

...which got closed. This thread is different because I am suggesting a solution.

I'm going to use the alert feature every time I see this - and not just on posts by people who I already think are jackasses.

NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE. GET WITH THE PROGRAM. TERATOMA GONNA GET YA!

reply to post by Teratoma


Sometimes a profound thought can be summed up in one line.
*2nd line*

Sometimes the shoe fits and a witty 1 line response just caps it.
2nd line.
But as long as ATS works and the advertising pays the bandwidth fees I say run with it.
But this is not the Gumment sector so if someone is just being stupid adding nothing I’m sure the Mods will execute their posts with extreme prejudice. But as far as well engineered forums I think ATS is top shelf, I know I’ve seen a lot worse.

No!
2nd line

Perhaps some of you are missing the point. A one-line post is fine if it adds something to the thread. Even the mods say so.

It's the adding of the words "2nd line" that I'm referring to. This does nothing but show that the poster has misinterpreted the "no one-liner" rule.


If people can learn that posts should be longer than one line, they should have the mental capacity to understand why, and that the words "2nd line" do not actually constitute a second line.

At the very least, it should be regarded the same way as the circumventing of censor filters, "OMG, this post is too short, I better add some meaningless crap to it to legitimize it.

I would say that you should probably relax about this issue.

Originally posted by whatukno
I would say that you should probably relax about this issue.

Yeah, because I'm just so wound up over this.

Look, I simply care enough about this place to want to clean up what I consider to be clutter. Each time you see "2nd line" it represents failure. It means somebody just didn't get it. It's ironic, because they got something - and made an effort to do something about it, however misguided. Or, one could say that the failure is ATS's, for not explaining the one-line post rule clearly enough (for some people).

Does ATS have more, bigger problems than this? Absolutely. This is just one that could be easily dealt with.

reply to post by Teratoma


Don't worry about wukky...he and his lizard girl had a fight :-p

I dunno...I am not too bothered by it but I would be lying if I said there weren't little things that bug the heck out of me too

-Kyo

Originally posted by KyoZero
reply to post by Teratoma

 

Don't worry about wukky...he and his lizard girl had a fight :-p

Haha! I believe you're referring to this image... Otherwise I'm thoroughly confused.

I dunno...I am not too bothered by it but I would be lying if I said there weren't little things that bug the heck out of me too

It's not just that it bugs me, but that I believe it could (and should) be eliminated. People wouldn't do that if they weren't conditioned to, and they can be conditioned not to.

And with the growing amount of new people around here, I think it's worth it to try to bring some attention to it before it "catches on" even further.

[edit on 5/18/2010 by Teratoma]

If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won't), adding the words "2nd line" under a one line post doesn't make it less of a one-liner.

In the grand scheme of things, actioning one line posts are not at the top of priorities. The fact is, unless the mod taking the action edits something in to the actioned post (and it doesn't always happen) you'll never know whether action was taken or not. There's no visual display automatically generated to indicate the one line posts that have been addressed.

The member will get an auto U2U notifying them of a 20 point penalty and a reminder about making every post count. I usually try to remember to edit in a link to the info as in Mod Edit: One line posts. Please review. But if I claimed to do that 100% of the time, I'd be lying.

Sometimes things are moving way too fast and honestly, I'm generally doing multiple things at once so it doesn't always happen.

Personally, I wouldn't advocate alerting on one-line posts unless it's very repetitive on an ATS thread.

Believe it or not, we've had members go completely ballistic over the 20 point penalty for posting "me too" or "good post" or some such. Then again, it's always something.

Originally posted by yeahright
If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won't), adding the words "2nd line" under a one line post doesn't make it less of a one-liner.

This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say. Again, it's not the one-line posts that bother me. It's the ill-conceived notion that adding the words "2nd line" somehow legitimizes ANYTHING.

The people that do this got the idea to do so from the way the 'One Line Post' rule is worded. Perhaps an addendum to the rule could explain that simply adding the words "2nd line" would be missing the point.

Taking a few steps to educate users would be preferable to writing filters to catch the uninformed (a polite, and inaccurate term.)

Saying that "they won't learn" would be a cop-out, particularly since this is learned behavior.

I came to this site because of its content, but became a participant largely because of the way it's moderated. Leaving clutter like this around seems inconsistent with the way things are usually handled, and sends a message to new and prospective members.

[edit on 5/18/2010 by Teratoma]

When I see a post with the "2nd line" added too an off topic one liner reply. Instead of just adding the Mod note to there post, I also ding for 20 points for being a smart alic.