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The blood of Jesus Christ...a judgement or a sacirifice?

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posted on May, 12 2010 @ 07:54 AM
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The blood of Jesus Christ...a judgement or a sacirifice?

It is both. It is neither.

Why shouldn't God send Himself on the Plains, in the Vibrations, call Himself Jesus, make of Himself a servant, and seek to teach stupid Humans how to live the Golden Rule?

Why shouldn't God send Himself to Earth, and in Prophesy, humbly accept death at the hands of stupid Humans, who He knows, do not know what they are doing?

Why shouldn't God bring Light out of such darkness, by and in Prophesy, permit His Blood, the Blood He shed as He was dying and His Water, shed when His body was pierced to determine the fact of His death, to spill upon the Earth, as a remedy, a medicine, to purify the very Earth?

Why shouldn't God send Himself from Earth to the Void that is Hell to retrieve what was stolen; the Souls of Man?

Why shouldn't God raise Himself from Death and thereby change the Way and the Working of the Spirit?

Why shouldn't God send Himself to do His work within the ALL, to continue the infinite dance of Creation, bring about His Plan, the development of both the material universe, including our Humanity and the Earth and Fabric and the separation of Light from Dark to achieve Universal Bliss?

More than a Judgement or Purifying Sacrifice, The Blood of the Lamb was a Gift.




posted on May, 12 2010 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by teapot
 


Yes and thank you for your reply! :-)



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:41 AM
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Without the Blood of Jesus Israel would not be reborn!



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by assasinforfather
 


I am here with you - a believer in Jesus - as for what you ask, I don't know.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by assasinforfather
 


What kind of plan separates people and worries about a one land over all the other lands?

The Holy Spirit is concerned with the entire planet...not just one land.

Why dont you all see what this has done to our people?

I just dont understand how you can not use your logic over acceptance.

The heavens are very concerned with how far man has strayed from understanding what a Divine nature would be...a nature that is not separating amongst people, such as special tribes and bloodlines...a nature that is not concerned with a land that will cause war and separation and pride and greed....

How can you all think this is Holy?
I know you all must be good people....so why cant you see into your own divine self within you, the highest vision God holds for you...and discern what is ways of man and what is ways of the Holy Spirit?

Its people like you that the heavens need right now....to find the Divine light for this planet and bring it to Earth through yourselves.

Call me troll...what ever you wish...I feel it is what I am to do.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



Hi

I have seen you around the boards and I’m aware of your mother’s near death experience.



Originally posted by LeoVirgo
God needs no blood shed for a sin...this is a practice of the dark ages...thank goodness we have men that are moving away from this.




Matthew 26: 27-28
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


What are your thoughts on the above verse?

Don’t worry, I haven’t come here to judge you, but you must have considered this verse before, from past conversations.


- JC



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by assasinforfather
 


For the sake of an argument if we believe that Prophet Jesus(Peace be upon him) sacrifice for the sins of the human being, than how could you justify the people who came before him. Who will takecare the burden of those pplz sins.

And their saying ; Surely we have killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mariu, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Jesus) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. [ Quran : 4:157]

And there is not one of the followers of the Book [ Jews & Christians] but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them. [ Quran : 4: 159]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by Abuaisha
reply to post by assasinforfather
 


For the sake of an argument if we believe that Prophet Jesus(Peace be upon him) sacrifice for the sins of the human being, than how could you justify the people who came before him. Who will takecare the burden of those pplz sins.


God was made manifest in the person Jesus. Humanity killed Him. The Divine DNA was shed for the Earth and all that live upon Her. Jesus, forsaken, descended into death to retrieve that which was stolen, the souls of Men.



And their saying ; Surely we have killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mariu, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Jesus) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. [ Quran : 4:157]

Baptism in the Spirit, being born again, brings us into understanding of the Divinity of Christ.


And there is not one of the followers of the Book [ Jews & Christians] but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them. [ Quran : 4: 159]


Matthew 3:11
I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
(John the Baptist)




[edit on 24/5/2010 by teapot]



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Hello Joecroft,

Ultimatly, we all must find out what things mean on our personal path. I can only share with you my personal thoughts and I dont try to bring it as a fact for you.




TextMatthew 26: 27-28 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


Through much sifting over words in the Bible...this was a verse I just disregaurd. It supports 2 things which my experiences have just shown me to be not of importance.

Blood Covenant-This is one of the oldest practices by man and is a scapegaot practice. To take a life...and expect a bad seed to be made amends, does this make sense to your spirit? For mine, it no longer holds any water that a Divine God would need any such ritual and that a honest heart would not be enough for a humble graceful God that KNOWS when we are honest in our thought and mind.

I do understand that there are things we do in life, due to our age, inexperience, pride, greed, hate, ect...that causes us to make a poor judgment or act in a way that would not be ideal to our inner nature of Spirit. But I dont think these things are as much of mistakes...but it is how God meant for us to have a way to learn from. Therefor, we have things like feelings of guilt, ways to look back and observe as we get older, psychologically, it just seems to me that its natural for us to slip up and weigh and measure our actions and thoughts and deeds. The issue isnt so much of us NOT taking a double look at everything we do....but ONCE WE DO take that double look and know within our ways could be more of Spirit...DO WE THEN IGNORE THAT? God knows. I dont think we are born into 'sin' and I dont think that we ever stop getting a chance to learn from our ways.

From what I understand....your honest heart, your pure will to seek daily and observe your footsteps here daily, your desire and effort to try to humble your thought process daily, your will to find a understanding in cleansing your bodily temple....these are ways of Spirit...and they lead a person to becoming more aware of the path of SPirit.

I dont support God needing any killing of any creature for sins, I dont support that Jesus had to die for our sins....but that the path he walked was a offering, a personal offering, to give back to Earth what is of Earth...and live for the life of Spirit by his own will. In this path, he did likely see the opportunity for others to learn the narrow path of Spirit....and I believe he was aware that by telling them 'pick up your own cross and follow me'....that others could also find the key to getting out of the karmic cycle of reaping what we sow.

In short...I take no account for that verse any more. I dont decide things like this in just one moment or one day. I find something I want to study on through the Holy Spirit...and I sift it, measure it, compare it to other things that I understand are Holy or are of Earth. After sifting alot within me, it came to the moment last year of Spring Time....and I was thinking within myself about the ritual of communion. I went over this practice within me, thought about taking of the bread and wine....and did not find this a practice for my sins....but found it a practice that helped me see....our bodies, are of ONE (the Earth). Our Souls, are of ONE, (Holy Spirit). We are two bodies in one being. Jesus was just like us. I dont think he claimed himself to be special...but that he understood the importance of a path of Spirit and wanted others to find this also.

I doesnt come down to words in a book for me anymore...I look at that verse now...I see that it revolves around the acceptance of a death for my own wrongs...and I just know no one can carry that cross for me and I just know that I sow more Earthly seeds by casting my wrongs onto another.

For me, that verse just shows how important it was to those that wrote the writings of that time to still practice blood sacrifices and to tie this man Jesus into the practices and rituals of the OT....which he often did not seem to agree with much in the OT. There is also some other writings that seems to support that Jesus did not support the idea of blood sacrifices at all....that this was why he was so upset at the Temples, for the selling of animals for sacrifices in a Holy place. I think when Jesus complains about the Earthly practices of men....that this was one of the rituals he was talking about.

Seek within you and find that personal guidance within in. It would do you much better then to just take anyone's word for it, weather it be in a book or here or anywhere.

To tie the OT and the Gospels together....Jesus had to be acclaimed as the Lamb, the final blood shed. I dont think Jesus wanted to be tied to the Hebrew Bible what so ever and I think his teachings are very different from the teachings of the OT.

My best always to you...and would love to have feedback or thoughts from you further

LV



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by teapot
 



Hello teapot...hope all is well!

I mean no disrespect...so please take no offense.

Divine DNA?

Never heard of that one before....dont then you find it odd that in that book Jesus also tells us WE will go on to do better things...that WE can move mountains?

Do you not find it odd that throughout all of human history, every single culture has tried to make a man God? How is this path you walk any different then any of them...by taking this man Jesus, and making him God? What is of flesh is of flesh. Why do you think this is a common desire by humans to do this> making a man God in the flesh?

My best
LV



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by teapot
 


Psalm 91:11-12, 15 and the others, clearly and indisputably agree with the Noble Quran's and Isaiah 52:13 Verses that are shown below. Jesus was neither crucified nor resurrected, and he was protected and lifted by GOD Almighty. Also, the New Testament, again, confirms that Psalm 91 is referring to Jesus Christ.
# GOD Almighty will hear his cries (Psalm 91:15) and will save him (Psalm 91:3).

# GOD Almighty will cover him with His Protection (Psalm 91:4).

# Christ will then not have any fear in him (Psalm 91:5).

# Christ will then observe with his own eyes the punishment of the crucified ones (Psalm 91:8).

# No harm (this includes crucifixion!) or disaster will even come near Christ (Psalm 91:10....this even contradicts him getting beaten up before crucifixion).

# GOD Almighty will send down the Angels to protect him and lift him (Psalm 91:11-12, 14, Isaiah 52:13). Not even his foot will strike the ground from his enemies pushing, grappling and punishment.

# Christ's call will be HEARD, and he will be delivered and honored (Psalm 91:15, Isaiah 52:13). No way would these verses be valid if Christ got crucified.

# "Death" in Isaiah 53:9 is proven to be symbolic using the Hebrew Lexicon and several English translations, and it never meant a literal death.

# Important Note: Psalm 91 is speaking as a number of Prophecies that WILL take place. Notice how the verses are speak of future events that WILL TAKE PLACE. Never once throughout the entire New Testament were the Angels sent to save Jesus from striking his foot against a rock. This, again, clearly proves that the NT is indeed false and corrupt.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 09:04 AM
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Hi/

The reason that Jesus Christ came was so that mankind can be released from the SIN that Adam and Eve caused!
SIN caused Adam and Eve to experience a physical death of Body and soul...breaking Gods one commandement of 'do not eat of the tree' caused man to physically die.
* St. Paul that wages of such sin is death [Romans 6:23].
Cast out of Eden and barred from re-entry for their own good, Adam and Eve, in their mortality are now subject to the corruption of death.

DEATH came to all of mankind ...not only did mankind experience a physical death, but also a breaking away from God and all of mankind went to Hades.
Hades was a place away from God....all people went there as there was no Saviour to save them from the 'Curse' of the first people.

Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
1Corinthians 15:56: The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

St. John Chrysostom(Goldenmouth)
"Partaking of the tree, the man and woman became liable to death and subject to the future needs of the body.
Adam was no longer permitted to remain in the Garden, and was bidden to leave, a move by which God showed His love for him … he had become mortal, and lest he presume to eat further from the tree which promised an endless life of continuous sinning, he was expelled from the Garden as a mark of divine solicitude, not of necessity."

[Hom. in Gen XVIII, 3 PG 53 151]

As St. Paul taught in the context of the resurrection as the remedy for sin and death, ("O death where is thy sting …?"), "the sting of death is sin." [1 Corinthians 15:55-56]

"God the Son became Man in order to regather in Himself the ancient creation, so that He might slay sin and destroy the power of death, and give life to all men."

[Against the Heresies, III, xix 6 ANF]
Jesus Christ took Flesh...St John's Gospel, declares that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us ... " (1:14).



As the Church Fathers never tired of declaring, "He became what we are, so that we might become what He is." The eternal Son of God "took flesh" and "became man" so that we might participate now and forever in all the joy and all the glory of His divine Life.
source

So before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed.
So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith, we are no longer under a custodian; for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Galatians 3:27).

Gods Mercy has allowed all of mankind to re-join Him in the New heaven of the New Covenant.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 09:22 AM
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I wish I could hear from other posters about how the Spirit has guided them and hear what they have learned directly from relation with the Spirit...instead of what they have found in the book.

Death is not a punishment...this world and life is not a punishment due to another persons fault.

These ideas disgrace God and the nature of Thee. Death is because this life is meant to be temporary....this life is a opportunity for experience, a place to learn about your inner being. What good is it to learn something through just being given a answer? What do you learn that way? There is purpose through seeking answers, and finding understanding with the way. That is what this life is about.

There are many beliefs that keep a person from understanding and truly seeking, the Holy Spirit.

Any true experiences? Any true guidance? Or are we just following a man that once wrote his thoughts down? Any reason to believe this that you read? Any at all?

We learn, through mistakes. We learn, through repetitive experiences. Its perfect....and not a mistake we are here. I guess it is easier to think that we suffer due to something God did not intend...but I tell you truly, it was every intention of Thee that we are here and we experience this world.

Just offering my path...just as others offer the path of the Earthly book.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
I wish I could hear from other posters about how the Spirit has guided them and hear what they have learned directly from relation with the Spirit...instead of what they have found in the book.


Whether you recognise or acknowledge it or not, you hear from others who live Spirit filled lives. Why do you assume that all those who accept the divinity of Christ only do so because they read about it?

Everything I am able to share about what I have learned so far on my Path, has been because of my relationship with God, which was forged in Truth with the crucified Christ and was and is guided, led and counselled in Spirit.


These ideas disgrace God and the nature of Thee.


God cannot be disgraced.


Death is because this life is meant to be temporary....this life is a opportunity for experience, a place to learn about your inner being.


What does this fact have to do with the premise of the OP?


What good is it to learn something through just being given a answer? What do you learn that way? There is purpose through seeking answers, and finding understanding with the way. That is what this life is about.


Are you aware that your continued assertion that Christians are only Christians because they can read and believe everything they are told by other people who can read, that anyone involved in Christianity are only capable of blind faith, is an Atheist assertion?


There are many beliefs that keep a person from understanding and truly seeking, the Holy Spirit.


Christianity is not one of them.


Any true experiences? Any true guidance? Or are we just following a man that once wrote his thoughts down? Any reason to believe this that you read? Any at all?


Are you asking for physical, corporeal, tangible, proof that God exists?

I have never met any fully signed up Christian who invited God into their heart without a lot of time spent in Truth seeking quiet contemplation of the nature of God, the purpose of Life or the Divinity of Christ.


We learn, through mistakes. We learn, through repetitive experiences. Its perfect....and not a mistake we are here. I guess it is easier to think that we suffer due to something God did not intend...but I tell you truly, it was every intention of Thee that we are here and we experience this world.


Humanity is very important to God. That is why He took responsibility for showing us the Way.


Just offering my path...just as others offer the path of the Earthly book.


2,000 years. Billions of people. And all we needed all along was to be told that our spiritual experiences did not happen, we just read about it in a book!

What exactly, is your agenda?



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by teapot
 


My agenda is to point out to others that ignore the fact they dont experience a jealous God who is concerned with a chosen people or a chosen Earthly land.

My agenda is to offer back to people the goodness of the Holy Spirit so they can experience things beyond the book.

If you experienced something that showed you how tainted the image of God was made by man believing that God required the death of animals or a human for our wrongs...would you speak out to others?

That is all I am doing. That is my agenda. Yes, the nature of God can be disgraced through the minds of men. Just because people are experiencing the comfort and nurture through their path...doesnt make the book truth or their religion true. God will always comfort if one is seeking...God will always nurture.

But so often people just keep quoting scripture about things they have no real experience of. I just wish more Christians would speak from their hearts of what God shows them...instead of quoting words of another man.

I brought up the death...because in a recent posts someone said we experience death due to Adam and Eve's actions. As if it is a mistake we are here and a mistake we go through a physical death. Its no mistake.

Edit to add..

I would love for you to go back to my post to you and address those questions...if you get the time.

I take notice teapot that your posts are usually not full of quotes...and you often do speak from your heart...which is why I posted questions to you. My complaint about quoting scriptures was the last couple of posts that was entirely quote from a book...and I have to wonder...what have they been shown through spiritual experiences. But very good hearted of you to defend that.

You should know I love talking with others that experience spiritual things...I have talked with many of all likes of faith and belief. It could be quoting from any book...not just the Bible...I want to hear from others hearts...their own deepest core of their being. What is so wrong with that?

[edit on 24-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 01:35 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another..

And whoever commints a fault or a sin, then accuses of it one innocent, he indeed takes upon himself the burdenof a calumny and a manifest sin [Quran : 4:112]

Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and whoever goes astray, to its detriment only does he go astray; nor can the bearer of a burden bear the burden of another, nor do We chastise util We raise a messenger.[Quran : 17:15]


Purpose of Life

Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things, (Quran : 67:1]

Who created death and life that He may try you -- whichof you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, [Quran : 67:2]

Every soul shall taste of death, and you shall only be paid fully your reward on the resurrection day; then whoever is removed far away from the fire and is made to enter the garden he indeed has attained the object; and the life of this world is nothing but a provision of vanities. [Quran : 3:185]

And this world's life is naught but a play and an idle sport and certainly the abode of the hereafter is better for those who guard (against evil); do you not then understand? [Quran : 6:32]



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by helen670
 


Jesus(PBUH) worshiping his God:

Let us look at
Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
Here we see that Jesus had a God, a supreme God, who is higher than him and stronger than him. Jesus was God's servant and he prayed to God so God would strengthen him more and reinforce him with patience and desire to continue his mission in spreading the word of God Almighty.

Also, let us look at
Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' " Here in this verse we see two things: (1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience. (2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him. Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe, the all knowing, most powerful??!!

Also, let us look at

Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'" My comments on this verse are similar to the above one (Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself.

Also, let us look at

Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word." Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe if he (1) begs, and (2) lacks power??!!

Proof of ONE God

Isaiah 45:18
# For thus says the Lord who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who form it inhabited: " I am the Lord there is no other."

Isaiah 43:1;10-11
# But now, thus says the Lord, Who created you, O Jacob, and He formed you, O Israel...
Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord, And beside Me there is no saviour.

Mark 10:17-19
(A Man asked Jesus): "Good teacher, What must i do to inherit ethernal life?"
(And Jesus replied to him): " Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments...."

(According to Christain belief, Jesus (PBUH) should have answered that in order to attain eternal life, Jesus will die on the cross and that one should believe in him.

But in these verses, Jesus gave Islamic answer (2 point showing correct belief):
1) He denied goodness for himself and attribute it to God ( The Creator)alone, thus denying being associated as a god alongside the ONE TRUE GOD.
2) and Jesus answered that the way to ethernal life is by keeping the commandments, not by his death.


Concept of God in Islam

Say; He, Allah (Your Lord), is One;
Allah (Your Lord) is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And none is like Him.



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by Abuaisha
reply to post by helen670
 


Jesus(PBUH) worshiping his God:

Let us look at
Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
Here we see that Jesus had a God, a supreme God, who is higher than him and stronger than him. Jesus was God's servant and he prayed to God so God would strengthen him more and reinforce him with patience and desire to continue his mission in spreading the word of God Almighty.

Also, let us look at
Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' " Here in this verse we see two things: (1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience. (2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him. Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe, the all knowing, most powerful??!!

Also, let us look at

Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'" My comments on this verse are similar to the above one (Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself.

Also, let us look at

Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word." Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe if he (1) begs, and (2) lacks power??!!

Proof of ONE God

Isaiah 45:18
# For thus says the Lord who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who form it inhabited: " I am the Lord there is no other."

Isaiah 43:1;10-11
# But now, thus says the Lord, Who created you, O Jacob, and He formed you, O Israel...
Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord, And beside Me there is no saviour.

Mark 10:17-19
(A Man asked Jesus): "Good teacher, What must i do to inherit ethernal life?"
(And Jesus replied to him): " Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments...."

(According to Christain belief, Jesus (PBUH) should have answered that in order to attain eternal life, Jesus will die on the cross and that one should believe in him.

But in these verses, Jesus gave Islamic answer (2 point showing correct belief):
1) He denied goodness for himself and attribute it to God ( The Creator)alone, thus denying being associated as a god alongside the ONE TRUE GOD.
2) and Jesus answered that the way to ethernal life is by keeping the commandments, not by his death.


Concept of God in Islam

Say; He, Allah (Your Lord), is One;
Allah (Your Lord) is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And none is like Him.



Hi Abuaisha/

The Scriptures you gave from the Holy Gospel is not quite the same as is in the Greek!
Luke 5:16....you have it wrong!
No where in Scripture does it say that Jesus Christ prayed to His God.
Praying as He did was to show us how to pray to the Father...He was here for that reason..to re-unite man to God as it was before the fall.
All that Jesus Christ taught ,lived and done in Gods name, was so that the Old Testament prophecies came to be fullfilled !
Jesus Christ as God in the Flesh knew all of man's hearts....He never stopped being God .
Why else was He treated like a criminal by His very own people and then rejected by His very own people?(or so they claimed to be His own people)
The reason prophesied in the Old Testament....

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name,
I will require it of him" (Deut. 18:18-19).
The new and heavier sin of the Jewish people was the denial of the God-sent Messiah!
The Jews not merely denied their Savior, they abused and crucified Him...

Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”1

“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”

This Messiah would be born a human son, but have a higher nature
Isaiah 9:6:

Daniel 7:13-14: “There before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”


The Quote below is taken from....''Son of Man'' was the primary title Jesus used for Himself....
and this passage shows that this was a clear and strong claim of deity. And in Mark, the earliest of the four Gospels, He also included the unmistakable phrase, “coming on the clouds of heaven” and applied it to Himself (Mark 14:62). His listeners got the point, refused to believe it, and added it to their reasons to try to kill Him.
Jesus is God – His Earthly Ministry
The baby Jesus worshiped by the Magi
Matthew 2:11: “On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.”

You ,me or anyone else cannot translate in our own interpretation the Scriptures!
The Scriptures have been interpreted by Theologians working together!
Scriptures are not read in one lines but as a whole passage,otherwise we get many meanings according to our own interpretations....
On the passage
"Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me, nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt:" and against Marcionists and ManicAeans: also, that we ought not to rush into danger, but to prefer the will of God before every other will


The prophet Micheas wrote the well known prophecy regarding Bethlehem which was quoted by the Judaic scribes when king Herod asked them where Christ was supposed to be born.
“And Thou, Bethlehem Ephrata,
art a little one among the thousands of Juda: out of thee shall He come forth to Me that is to be ruler in Israel: and His going forth is from the beginning,
from the days of eternity” (Micheas 5:2)
Many more on the Prophecies of the 'Lesser' Prophets!

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Abuaisha
reply to post by helen670
 


Jesus(PBUH) worshiping his God:

Let us look at
Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
Here we see that Jesus had a God, a supreme God, who is higher than him and stronger than him. Jesus was God's servant and he prayed to God so God would strengthen him more and reinforce him with patience and desire to continue his mission in spreading the word of God Almighty.


This is indeed True. But it only paints half the story. Another indicator that Jesus was God made manifest is that He served Humanity.


Also, let us look at
Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' " Here in this verse we see two things: (1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience. (2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him. Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe, the all knowing, most powerful??!!


1) Jesus often referred to God as His Father. That is why we understand Him to be the Son of God. The pre-crucifixion Jesus, was God made manifest as a man. Of course God and His Son would be obedient to God's Will! Even if the Son dreaded the prospect of what was to come.

2) Jesus had already submitted His Will to the Father. The choice was no longer His. God did not do the dying for Jesus. Jesus did the dying for us all.

Christ is Lord of All because He submitted to the Will of the Father.



Also, let us look at

Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'" My comments on this verse are similar to the above one (Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself.


Jesus submitted to God's Will! He accepted the cup. 'let your will take place' is affirmation, agreement, submission, acceptance. For Himself, Jesus the man did not want the cup. He accepted that it had to be, the near future that He knew about. That His death was the only Way.




Also, let us look at

Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word." Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe if he (1) begs, and (2) lacks power??!!


A humble man, openly submitting to God probably looks powerless to most people.


Proof of ONE God

Isaiah 45:18
# For thus says the Lord who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who form it inhabited: " I am the Lord there is no other."

Isaiah 43:1;10-11
# But now, thus says the Lord, Who created you, O Jacob, and He formed you, O Israel...
Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there after Me.
I, even I, am the Lord, And beside Me there is no saviour.

Mark 10:17-19
(A Man asked Jesus): "Good teacher, What must i do to inherit ethernal life?"
(And Jesus replied to him): " Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments...."


(According to Christain belief, Jesus (PBUH) should have answered that in order to attain eternal life, Jesus will die on the cross and that one should believe in him.


Jesus gave prophesy about His own death. He also 'met people where they were'. What this means is that Jesus spoke to the heart of the individual who addressed Him.



But in these verses, Jesus gave Islamic answer (2 point showing correct belief):
1) He denied goodness for himself and attribute it to God ( The Creator)alone, thus denying being associated as a god alongside the ONE TRUE GOD.


As do (deny goodness for ourselves) many Christians and people of other faiths. Many people believe that the Light belongs to the Creator.


2) and Jesus answered that the way to ethernal life is by keeping the commandments, not by his death.


Jesus said: I am the Truth and the Light and the Way.



Concept of God in Islam

Say; He, Allah (Your Lord), is One;
Allah (Your Lord) is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And none is like Him.


That the Quran denies the divinity of Christ is not a secret.

What I find frustrating in all discussions about the death of Jesus, is the focus on the blood, the sacrifice polemic or who's fault it was (Pilat? Herod? The Pharisees?) but rarely any musings on why the death of Jesus is still a point for discussion 2,000 years later.

Why would the death of one man impact upon the human psyche so effectively as to keep people talking for millenia?



posted on May, 25 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by misterscratch

Originally posted by assasinforfather
I believe that Jesus was crucified for judgement of man's sins.

Why?
If God is all powerful then why did he have to offer up his kid for sacrifice?
Why couldn't God just wave his arm and say 'all is forgiven'?

Jesus died in order for Satan to be eventually killed.
If God gave a blanket forgiveness Satan would get off free.
Watch the movie, Dogma, to see what happens when a general amnesty is announced.
Jesus' death demonstrates that the law must be satisfied.



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