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The blood of Jesus Christ...a judgement or a sacirifice?

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posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Rollo
 


I have no other choice to speak on such things..I have walked your path and now see I was following fellow man, not the Spirit. I was learning from man, not from God.

My voice will continue but your concern for me is felt. Man has much to learn.

God is simply, your humble honest heart is all that was ever needed and intended.

I dont speak without knowledge of the Bible...I have more books on the Bible then any other book. I now understand why it is so as it is and I see why the pearls can not just be given to us in a book. Understanding comes through experience, personal paths of honest will.

Be well




posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by supadupa9
 


We have never been separate from God.

ALways check through the Holy Spirit, not just through scriptures by man.



[edit on 11-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


you have a choice to spread dis-info or proclaim the truth...accept the fact the blood was split for us and had be foretold since the earliest days.

I think understand form where you are speaking, and yes on to your over all ideas...yes this is the time...

But this doesn't take away the truths with ones own concepts...
This is not debatable.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by Rollo
 


And you have a choice, to seek the Spirit within you or follow mans errors from the past.

The errors were needed...to lead us to where we shall go from here.

Your right, its not debatable. I can say you are spreading dis-info on the nature of God...does that make it so>?

Seek your deepest core being, see the highest vision the Holy Heavens hold for us. We are not a mistake, all is perfect as it was meant to be.

It is up to each of us to truly seek or just to follow and accept.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:29 AM
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ok

From what I understand is that you use to infrequence the church a lot, but over time you became disillusioned with the religious robotics mechanism of the authorities and how they have misconstrued the meanings of the scriptures.

I understand that you feel the church as it stands prominently now and has been for such along time is not the way it should be...
I know you know the time is ripe for the revival of the true, pureness of the faith to return and I also can say you feel you are one of the new bread that has been promised.

But please dont loose sight of the truths as they are eternal, and still have to be adhered to as our core in understanding the link to our salvation.
Jesus was a Jew and a rabbi, he did have a full working knowledge of all ways of the law...and how God interacted with all that came before him. His life and death fulfilled all the rituals that God instructed his people to do...for a reason.

We must use this knowledge in our core foundations even though we seek to restore the ways of him, we will do things differently that is the plan but we must no deny the ultimate truths....other wise we will be no better or different to the way it is now.



The current picture of the church is clearly portrayed by the foundational doctrines in Hebrews 6. These are 6 basic foundations: repentance from dead works, faith toward God, doctrine of baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection from the dead and eternal judgment.
Apostle Paul admonishes us to move on to perfection and not to camp in any of these areas. Historically, some mainline churches have ignored these foundational doctrines and will go in circles making no progress unless they fulfil ALL these basic foundations.
Today, many are camping in these foundations. The Word-Faith Movement has camped in the second foundational doctrine 'faith toward God.' The Toronto and Prophetic Movements have camped in the third and forth foundational doctrines which include the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the laying on of hands. Many have gone into error in these camps. Today they preach another gospel. They are regular church folk who have stayed part of the charismatic church.

Others have been called out of the church for many years and have entered the wilderness. They have been thoroughly taught a new doctrine and a new song. They have a different faith. A living faith that enters the Presence of Jesus behind the veil.
The wilderness truth is at the forefront of what God is doing today. He will lead these people out of the wilderness bringing forth the last and final outpouring of the Holy Spirit. This ministry brings forth the truth of the wilderness. There is much hidden in the wilderness.
The foundations are different to anything being taught today.

Almost all of those ministering on Christian television are of the old order and do not have a deep revelation of the wilderness truth.
God has his chosen vessels hidden in the wilderness who have been trained and nurtured in the wilderness for decades. They do not speak the speak of today's Charismatics. They do not walk the walk of today's Charismatics. They have been truly transformed into vessels able to bear* His Presence and to enter the Promised Land of the Coming Move of God.

* Remember- the priests bore the heavy weight of the ark of the covenant on their shoulders as they went before the children of Israel through the wilderness into the Promised Land. When they grew weary - built a new cart - to climb a hill, they erred and a tragedy followed.


....



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Rollo
 


Its not about salvation...all returns.

Its about understanding and then awakening to what you are...a spiritual being.

God is not about rituals...dont you see the difference in Earthly practice and spiritual things?

I knocked, and the door was answered, the revelations floored me, only the Holy Spirit could help me stand after seeing how wrong man has been. The shame it puts on things of Spirit....is almost too much to face.

But I faced it, and now I speak what I have learned. The true church is outside, amongst the life therein. The true Temple, is your body, where the Spirit has dwelled always.

God is not concerned with bloodlines, tribes, or special lands. There is no chosen ones. To believe this, leads you away from the true nature of what is Holy.

Jesus was of the tribe of Judah...the other tribes did not want a king of Judah because that would stand above the other tribes. It was all about greed and pride and separation amongst man. Jesus tried to show them their wrongs, their greed, their pride in Earthly matters.

Still man refuses to see. Out of pride that they have been given the answers.

Edit to add...about the 'new bread to be promised'.....um no, I do not accept such a thing.

We are a unit, there is no 'special ones'. All returns to their highest self, in good time.

The only change that is happening is within the minds of man. It is a great thing and happy to be human during this age. There is no supernatural event taking place....for there is no reason for it to happen. Everything is perfect, was perfect, will be perfect.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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Ok then brother....


The simple FACT is the blood is what has allowed you and me and us to be the bride and return to Gods glory.

To deny the blood and the acts of Christ and to turn them into a mind screwing mantra you are proposing is not of GOD.
Wide is the way but narrow......



I am not interested in talking any more on this.

If you wont accept Jesus blood offering and proclaim this, but continue to communicate confusion with dis-info consciously, then so be it....

You may feel crafty but it's not hard to see thru my friend....
We see your fruits and so does he.







[edit on 11-5-2010 by Rollo]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Rollo

If you wont accept Jesus blood offering and proclaim this, but continue to communicate confusion with dis-info consciously, then so be it....

You may feel crafty but it's not hard to see thru my friend....
We see your fruits and so does he.
[edit on 11-5-2010 by Rollo]


I was waiting for it.

You don't agree with me so I confer my judgment upon you. And not only do you confer judgment, you claim to know the mind and/or fruits of your god.

I've got no particular axe to grind here but arguing with believers always seems to end the same way.

"...and so does he" in your statement equates to "my big brother is gonna beat you up for being mean to me!"



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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as I thought a new ager...wolf in sheep's clothing

*The 10 Commandments of Mother Earth*
.WTF is with you people.
Im no fan of religions. Just a good way of life that benefits our species in a balanced way
We must learn to drop labels. Its just a way to separate us.
______________
The words 'shifting' would fit into how I felt very very well.

.....For what its worth....if there is any spiritual changing or shifting of vibrations, I think we would see scientific observations of something. Even though I believe in spiritual things, I believe in cause and effect as well, with all levels of existence.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Rollo
 


Thee is the one that leads me (Thee is not a 'he')

Can you not see the fruits of the god in the OT...the one Jesus spoke against?

To find Thee...you need to look in the places that were here before any book was made. You need to seek out where life can not be tainted.

It is you that will have to stand up for the belief in that a man had to die...it is you that is following in ways you wre told to follow in.

You speak of earthly knowledge that holds no life therein.

But God is great....so we all will learn from our shortcomings. So I bring no fear...only ideas that should challenge your path. If you cant see it for what it is...then it is still the path that is meant for you. We shall not move forward from things we have not learned of yet.

You are right where you need to be...

My best to you and yours
LV (Im a sister...btw)



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by misterscratch



I was waiting for it. You don't agree with me so I confer my judgment upon you. And not only do you confer judgment, you claim to know the mind and/or fruits of your god.


LOL no
You can put your spin on it any way you choose...

I said I not interested in arguing a God truth with some one who won't accept basic principal....

I see your fruit is not of GOD, so simple I tried to have a discussion but it's like arguing between trance is better than elvis to the relevant fans...If ones fruits pointed to being of God then np I would be happy to keep going...but ultimately I am not stupid I saw what they were doing from 1st post and after trying and confirming, I'm done...rather do something more of value

You idea of judgment from me...LOL sorry to disappoint bud...
I know what rust is, I know what 2+2='s, I know how to read, I know red light means stop....if knowledge is some how judgment or stating knowledge is judgment then I guess your right...LOL

I was blunt in the end but nothing other.
Funny also to see you in this thread...why? Only real reason I can see is commonly know as trolling...



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by Rollo
as I thought a new ager...wolf in sheep's clothing

*The 10 Commandments of Mother Earth*
.WTF is with you people.
Im no fan of religions. Just a good way of life that benefits our species in a balanced way
We must learn to drop labels. Its just a way to separate us.
______________
The words 'shifting' would fit into how I felt very very well.

.....For what its worth....if there is any spiritual changing or shifting of vibrations, I think we would see scientific observations of something. Even though I believe in spiritual things, I believe in cause and effect as well, with all levels of existence.


Are you sure you want to dance with me? I am very sure of my path and where I stand. I am not hiding, I have many ways for someone to learn about me and who I am. I dont live in fear as you do.

Do you really think my posts about the '10 commandments of mother earth' is a literal commandment....as like your Biblical commandments.

They are suggestions. You are so full of your biblical ways that you cant even see a good message when it stands before you. Which reminds me of the story about a man who was so stuck in his scriptures, he couldnt see the angel that stood in his doorway.

And you are right...there are scientific observations of a shifting, a changing. It is up to you to seek that out if it interests you. You would like to think I make my posts for attention? I have been on a path for several years now...do you know what that path shown me I would have to do.....I would have to be willing to share my experiences....if I was seeking for my own salvation....I would not of been shown anything. I learned I had to seek for the sake of all man....the key to divine will lays therein, we are one, and we must figure this out.

We agree on something....I believe in cause and effect too. If you would of read my posts about shifting....it was something I didnt want to share...but I ended up sharing after seeing others confused with the same experiences. It was my duty, as a human, to share....even if that means ridicule, even if that means heretic, even if that means, my earthly life. Understand now?

This is not for kicks...there is change....it will not hold back...man has shamed what is holy and divine. Those that dont understand will only learn again.

So if you want to jump to conclusions that you 'know my fruit' be my guests. Im a lover, not a fighter. Im a giver, not a taker.

See...some people arent worried about Earth, cause they await God to just come and save the day and bring us a new one.

Just in case that doesnt happen...I speak about treating the Earth as I believe God would expect it to be treated. I believe in not wasting things that belong to the future of our children. I believe in finding better ways to produce our goods that we consume so much of. I believe there is a way to share the riches of Earth amongst all people.

And you dare ask me....WTF is with me?

Then please tell me...1 thing that you see wrong with any of that. I think your offended because I think for myself and dont need another man telling me what is ok and what is not.

I think you are confused...you say you are for a better way of life...but yet you want people to accept a death of a fellow man for their wrongs. You want to place me as crazy for supporting the Earth.

You say we need to get rid of labels.....well you can blame the OT god image on that one....its where labels got started.

Seriously, I come in peace, you display it as if I have horns or something


Your challenges back at me for my thoughts dont offend me, why does it seem you are offended by mine?

Leave it up to others to choose their path....even if you dont look within, doesnt mean that someone else wont.

Have you ever had any spiritual experiences? I cant even fit all of mine into one posts. The things that happened over the past few years is a part of my understanding. Should I ignore things I have seen that go against my past religion? Should I ignore things that stand before me, that are in my face saying 'here I am'? You will only be shown what you are ready for....and like I said, I think you are right where you need to be right now.

No hard feelings...we should be able to share thoughts and challenge each other, should we not?

My best always (with respect of you no longer want to engage conversation)
LV

[edit on 11-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by halfoldman
 


I think its more about decided what your nature is...and living it. Not really so much about sacrifice for others or part of a 'gods plan' kind of thing.

Lets say that a human is a very good nature loving person...will this loving nature change in them when their life is threatened? Or will they be able to stay true to themselves, their deepest self.

Jesus had a loving nature, he taught to love eachother and offer the other cheek when smited.

He practiced what he preached, which also shows his faith in the words he spoke. He stayed true to his nature, not letting this world of flesh change him.

We must be careful to say that God's plan involved a man having to die by our hands. This is very dangerous. We all have a choice....Jesus did a great job with walking his path for his spirit.

Basically He may have had a loving nature (not to the poor fig tree He cursed, or the innocent piggies), and certainly not to the scribes and Pharisees, who were even condemmed for the sins of their ancestors:


Matt 23:31-33 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"


Maybe its just me, but I just don't feel the love here.
Nevertheless, current Christian fundamentalism will forever be associated with George W. Bush and his war-mongering lies, and when the next generation begins to ask questions it will have to adapt into something else.
Well, there's many interpretations for many manipulations.
One already sees an increase in self-styled Christians, who reject the baggage of the faith (or at least they attempt to), and that I can totally respect.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by halfoldman]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Very good and fair points halfoldman...

If Jesus truly did or said those things...I would have to be in agreement with you.

It is possible that I take from the scriptures what I understand to be of good nature....cause I sure dont talk about the things you just mentioned.

Any book, any belief, any story, I try to find the light int he darkness.

Do I think a man of good nature would curse something? No, I dont. I also dont believe in the second coming many await where Jesus will bring a new world by force and all will be made to bow.

Some say that is picking and choosing....I call it discerning between a earthly nature and spiritual nature.

Great points, again. I do think we are witnesses unto ourselves...I have experienced something of this nature through my mother. We stand up for or against everything we do in life. I also think the man Jesus was very angry with many who followed the ways of the OT....for they robbed mankind of their spiritual birth right, which is seeking through yourself, a personal path. I think the man Jesus was very much against alot of the ways of man in the days he lived...and we see this anger in him in some of these passages.

I dont look at Jesus as God...I see him as another man, just like you or me. So I dont hold much against him for being 'human'.

I still think he was a great teacher though.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Rollo

Funny also to see you in this thread...why? Only real reason I can see is commonly know as trolling...


Man, you're a regular quick draw with the labeling aren't you?

In one post you've determined:

1). I'm a troll
2). I can't read or perform simple math
3). I am not of 'god' and you are qualified to judge that
4). I know nothing of 'fact'

Okay, so I won't be accused of trolling a thread that doesn't even strictly qualify as a CIR thread (where's the conspiracy?), I'll answer the OP question.

The blood of christ is neither judgment nor sacrifice to me because I believe the bible to be comprised of myth and legend.

I come in peace as well, by the by. I'm interested in why people believe as they do. My questions aren't designed to evoke emotional response in general... though I can see where I've failed in that endeavor in addressing your post.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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LOL ok sister...

So I tried to explain and now you have turned it around that I


You speak of earthly knowledge that holds no life therein.

The blood is all about the spirit.... that took place in the natural....


you then go and proclaim this is Gods will and words..


The idea that sins can be forgiven through blood shed of another is just sowing more dark seeds.

The idea that a blood sacrifice is needed by 'god' to accept us imperfect creatures is sick.

If you accept a blood sacrifice for your wrongs...instead of carrying your own cross yourself...the blood is then also on your hands.


Not really so much about sacrifice for others or part of a 'gods plan' kind of thing.

We must be careful to say that God's plan involved a man having to die by our hands. This is very dangerous. We all have a choice..

No one has to die for you....only you must wake to your true nature. To believe someone must die...is nothing short of murder.



none of this = any of Gods word or ways....
Simple, no argument and if you claim other wise then you are deceived



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Rollo
 


Sure, if God actually left us a literal book with all the answers...then sure.

Oddly enough, the word has been here all along, before any language, or book was written.

In the literal blueprint of the Universe, in life itself.

You can continue to believe that God left you a book to read...with words, written by your fellow man. You are free to believe that. You might want to ask God though....about this being so.

Blood is of Earth....God needs nothing of Earth for you to be the spiritual being that you are meant to be. God has no Earthly requirements for your spiritual being. You are loved, always was, always will be.

God needs no blood shed for a sin...this is a practice of the dark ages...thank goodness we have men that are moving away from this.

Edit to add...

Please know, I mean no disrespect to you or your belief. I speak to my fellow man about what I have experienced, simple as that. I speak from my heart to others, just as you are doing. Are purpose are not different. I wish you the best, and thanks for engaging in thoughts and beliefs with me.

I wish you all the best!!!

LV

[edit on 11-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by misterscratch

Originally posted by Rollo

Funny also to see you in this thread...why? Only real reason I can see is commonly know as trolling...


Man, you're a regular quick draw with the labeling aren't you?

In one post you've determined:

1). I'm a troll
2). I can't read or perform simple math
3). I am not of 'god' and you are qualified to judge that
4). I know nothing of 'fact'

Okay, so I won't be accused of trolling a thread that doesn't even strictly qualify as a CIR thread (where's the conspiracy?), I'll answer the OP question.

.


1 yes

2 where do you get that>? you said I am judgmental because of stating knowledge so I explain that in simple terms with basic facts and examples and now I am apparently saying you cant read or do math ...

3 no but your words or actions (fruits) may not be...I never see you b4 this post...but whats wrong with that even if I did. Tell me how thats judging you? You state you dont believe so I can safely say your not following Gods way...yer....you said so as well...Not my place to judge you fact is not judgment...happy to have a beer with you, it doesn't matter to me if you are or not..it's your free will given from God...!
Just dont be all uppity if you try and proclaim un-truths as Gods word and I pull you up...

4 totally lost no idea what this is about...



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


so just to clear this up....

Do you proclaim that Jesus sacrificed his blood to wash away your(and all b4 him and all to come since) sins? So God could see us as clean or redeemed, justified (just as if we have never sinned).

Or

Are you saying



he idea that a blood sacrifice is needed by 'god' to accept us imperfect creatures is sick. Some find it easier to offer blood sacrifice then to offer a repenting humbles honest heart. If you accept a blood sacrifice for your wrongs...instead of carrying your own cross yourself...the blood is then also on your hands.


which one?

I wont post again but will check to see later.


[edit on 11-5-2010 by Rollo]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by Rollo
 


Not sure why you dont understand...I dont support a blood sacrifice and I dont believe it is required by God, what is Holy, Perfect, and Divine.

You asked 'which one' do I believe...its simple, I stick by the quote that you copied of what I said. Did you think I changed my mind or something?

I think it is the biggest fall of mankind to believe this is so. I think this belief shames what is Holy. I dont think there is any ritual needed besides being honest in your heart and ways and mind before Thee.

Blood sacrifice only sows bad seeds. Do you really think there is justice in taking the life of something? Or believing the life had to be taken? This sounds like something heavenly to you? It is one of the oldest practices around, all cultures did it for their gods. It is not a surprise to me that it became a part of the Hebrews ways....for all the lands they dwelt in practiced it for their gods. The Bible makes a lot of sense when you can see where they came from, what they believed in before the OT ways, what lands they went through and stayed in....it is a evolving of mankind and mans beliefs. Sometimes you will find a humble man leaving his pathway to finding the nature of God....but this is few and far between in the OT.

Dont take my word for anything. This is what I found on my personal path with Thee. All I can do is hope you seek within your heart, the deepest being of one, and seek and test all things through the Holy Spirit.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]




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