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The blood of Jesus Christ...a judgement or a sacirifice?

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posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 05:12 AM
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I made a mistake in typing in my last post.

And they ask you (O Muhammad PBUH) concerning the Ruh (the Spirit); Say: "The Ruh (the spirit): is one of the things, the knowledge of which 'is'only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little" (Quran 17:85).




posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Your explanation "Imagine the first ever tree…it produced seeds which later grew from the ground to produced a second tree. Now the second tree can never be exactly like the first tree. Most people would say that the second tree came from the first tree but it could also be argued that the second tree is a part of the first tree, even though they are not physically connected by outward appearances. The two trees are a part of each other spiritually and genetically, even though they appear to be apart".

If you have read my 1st view and agreed upon which says "He is One and cannot be more than One. Nothing is equal-to or like Him. He is Unique." So above given example "part of first tree" doesn't hold any meaning.

Logical Example of "Unique"

If i say that i have a unique pen. It means that none has similar or equal both outwardly(Physically) or inwardly(functionality & essence) like my pen. Such pen cannot be called unique when its outward character is different and inward character remains same. If it does, than one can argue with it...please wait a minute..You do not have a "unique" pen. Although my physical appearance is not same like yours but my functionality and essences are same. So my pen is not "UNIQUE"

And by the way who came first "seed" or "tree" :-)
---



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 


Hello Abuaisha

I can only relate to what I have had in the pst of resonations when researching something particular. Its not as if, I can just ask and be close enough to Thee for something, every day. It was alot of work staying in a humble and honest mindset and to of continued that path as a daily thing, I would of had to become somewhat monkish. I came to a point to where I was to either go off and live out in the wilderness (smiles) or ground myself back to Earth. I chose the grounding back to Earth, for I have 3 children.

But while I was researching, one of the things that my Spirit seemed to focus in on if I was looking through words, languages ect...was the Aramaic language. I cant say I know why...but there were many 'ah ha' moments, when finding a meaning of a Aramaic word, name or place. My Spirit seemed to guide more towards any Aramaic words in the NT....as if it was searching for them, in between the lines. I dont remember the specifics, but Im sure if I started the study back up, the same words would pop out at me. The lnk between Aramaic, Arabic, and Hebrew....I do not know, but this was something my Spirit seemed to focus on. Does Aramaic connect to Islam or Arabic? I dont know. Mabey you can answer that.

I cant offer you much to the Islamic view...for it was not what I studied. Luckily, during my classes as school, I took a 'religions of the world' class. During this class Islam did come up and like I told you before, I had a deep feeling for the fact that the Islamic Faith was not built of the belief of blood sacrifices. I can say, this seemed to of pleased the Spirit.

Mabey on my next step in time, when I am ready to humble myself deeply again and bring my heart forth for things, mabey I will take the Quran and study it more,sift and weigh particular things within it.

All my best
LV

Edit to add to fix mistakes in the differences of the languages.



[edit on 21-6-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 


Hi Abuaisha



Originally posted by Abuaisha
As i have said in my last post Allah Almighty has called Himself with his beautiful names in order to know his nature. In Islam, Almighty God is known as "Allah" and has many different attributes, or descriptive names, which explain more about His nature.There 99 attributes of Allah Almighty Lord and many more He Himself knows the best.


Since I have come to believe in God, I have learned that God is bigger and greater, than any name we could ever give him.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
We all knows that God is so Holy/Divine/Pure. According to you do you think that the part of His spirit which is so Holy is residing in us and still we human do mistakes/sins. How is this possible?


It’s possible because when believers in Jesus receive the “Holy Spirit”, it only guides them into doing what is right and helps them to turn away from their sins. God still leaves us with our own free will and sometimes we still want to do things our own way and don’t listen to his spirit. This is why we still do bad things but this is not the Spirit of God’s fault but our own that is to blame.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
If we think the part of God (part of His spirit) which is so holy resides in all living beings(human,jinn, animals, birds, insects, tree,bacteria, HIV Virus..etc). If i give you a list you will get amazed. Do you think they all have a spirit of God, which is His part? According to you, we carry "His part of spirit" in our flesh which is so Holy and go to impure and forbidden places. So how can you explain this?

So in such situation we can simply say that we are from God and not part of God.


The same argument could be made against those who say “we are from God”…for example…

How can we, who have come from God, be so sinful and do impure things, if we all came from God who is Holy?

The thing is, you are only focusing on the negative and not the positive. How can we also do good and kind things, if we are not a part of God…(Rhetorical question)




Originally posted by Abuaisha
John 15:1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful

Still doesn't proves that as being the branches, we must be part of God. If you understand this verse literally than it means "God casts out Christians who don't bear fruit?"


If as you say, John 15:2-1 means "God casts out Christians who don't bear fruit?"

Then what does the verse mean to you as a Muslim? bearing in mind that you believe Jesus is a messenger from God…




Originally posted by Abuaisha
Did John(PBUH) bears witness that Jesus is the divine son of God? No, John bears witness that Jesus is the son of God! Anyone who knows Jewish and Israelite understanding will know that the term son of God does not denote divinity, nor does it make part of one God. The term son of God was very common amongst the people of Palestine during those days, it simply meant a man of God, a true believer(servant of God), a prophet, a messenger, and the Messiah.



Again, if the term “son of God” was very common, then why did the Jews take offence to Jesus using it? This is also tied in with my other argument, i.e. why would Jesus be accused of being the “son of God” at his trial, if it was just a common phrase that denoted no divinity? This doesn’t make any sense…




Originally posted by Abuaisha
As you mentioned, no religion has a proof what "God is made of". Therefore, we have no rights or authority to say that we are part of God/Children of God/Sons of God. All these statements are invalid because we do not know what God is made up of. We can say we are "servant of God" which is more appropriate because we do not have our own "WILL/COMMAND" we obey and submit the "WILL/COMMAND" of Almighty Lord. That is the purpose of our life.


The same argument can be used against you…
We have no rights or authority to say that we are from God, if we don’t know what “God is made of”



Originally posted by Abuaisha
If you have read my 1st view and agreed upon which says "He is One and cannot be more than One. Nothing is equal-to or like Him. He is Unique." So above given example "part of first tree" doesn't hold any meaning.

And by the way who came first "seed" or "tree" :-)


I think you missed the point of my analogy…the tree represents God.

God is one and was all that existed in the beginning. God must have made us from parts of himself, irrespective of what God might be made of. It is fine to say we are from God but that does not really tell the complete story.

Just because something is part of God does not make it God.



- JC



posted on Jun, 22 2010 @ 02:17 AM
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Wot did Jesus say of his execution? Do we know? I myself cannot accept he was executed for other peoples sins, every person is responsible for their own doings, surely God would want it that way. Is the sacrifice story of Jesus an attempt to hijack more pagan ways for themselves, we know pagans sacrificed animals and sometimes enemies and criminals, surely the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins story was to convert pagans to a newer religion and the way of life accompanying that.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Hi Joe,

Thank you for your reply. You have totally misunderstood my meaning. I will start this post with Quran Verses, which is revealed to last and final Prophet of Almighty God, Lord of universe, My Lord and your Lord.

O people of the Scripture (Jews & Christian)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease!(it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One llah (God), glory be to Him( Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.(Quran 4:171)

-----
As you said God is so Powerful and Great. Then why he needs a son? Do you have answer for this? Give me a logical answer.

---

Can you tell me the difference between the Spirit of God which is breathen into the fetus of women womb and one which you try to prove me that we received it latter time? What are these two type of spirits we called?

-----

We are from God : It means we are creation of God. If you have read my earlier post regarding spirit & soul you would have understood how the mechanism of spirit works in our body.

I will revised it again with logical example how the Spirit works in our body.
Just as water is the life of the tree, then by mixing with it, it produces something else(fruits), so that if it mixes with grapes and the grapes are then squeezed, it becomes juice(good) or wine(bad). Then it is no longer called water, except in a metaphorical sense. Thus we should understand the connection between Soul and Spirit; the Spirit is not called Soul except when it joins the body and is affected by it. So in conclusion we may say: the Spirit is the origin and essence, and the Soul consists of the Spirit and its connection to the body.

Part of God & We are from God. These are do different statement with two different meaning. (LV : I will appreciate if you could put some light on this two statements.). I have given you a logical example what does "Unique" means in a character of "God". So there is no question of having His part to be same or equal outwardly or inwardly. When He is unique, He is completely unique.

My understanding is very simple. God created our spirit [He did not gave us something from His part, because we do not know what is God made up of] and he sends angle to breathe in the fetus of women womb. And after sometimes when a person grown up and he is a righteous servant of God/Chosen person(prophet/messengers) than Almighty Lord guide him & help him with Ruh ul-Kudus [Holy spirit (Angel Gibrel)]. I have mentioned that in Arabic/Hebrew [Ruh/Ruah] has many meanings.

We are from God, and whoever knows God, listens to us; but whoever is not from God, does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit [a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood. John 4:6

What does the above verse mean to you?

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world," (1 John 4:1-3) see in this verse "spirit" is linked with "prophets". As i said original script has many English meanings.

I feel that you are very confused. During our discussion you have change your stand many times.

1) Holy Spirit= Jesus Spirit + God Spirit (His part).
2) Holy Spirit = Jesus Spirit + God's Spirit(from God).
3) God's Spirit= Holy Spirit (Spirit of God).
4) Jesus Spirit = God Spirit ( God did come down himself……through Jesus!)

Let me tell you. God Spirit and God's Spirit are two different word with two different meaning. If you say "God Spirit"; means "God is Spirit (madeup of) and His part (spirit)" & 'God's Spirit' means "His creation(spirit)- a separate identity". I have given you an example of Hinduism belief in concept of God. Common Hindu believe everything is God and Islam says everything is God's. Difference of 's' makes a huge difference in his meaning & understanding. Please give me your correct understanding and belief in God.

"How can we, who have come from God, be so sinful and do impure things, if we all came from God who is Holy? " Please see the logical example given above regarding how our spirit works in our body.

----
If as you say, John 15:2-1 means "God casts out Christians who don't bear fruit?" Then what does the verse mean to you as a Muslim? bearing in mind that you believe Jesus is a messenger from God…

You again misunderstood me. I have said many times that try to understand the original manuscript. You are reading English translation which is mistranslated/misinterpreted and also you are understanding it literally. You dont read the context.

The correct translation of John 15:1-2 is something like this :

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He raise upward; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit"

Its not "cut off" the correct meaning is "raised upward, lift up,elevate".

For more information visit www.biblestudytools.com...

Do you agree with me now why i have given you a meaning after reading your incorrect translation ""God casts out Christians who don't bear fruit?" which contradicts with Verse 5.

I hope you agree now.

----

Again, if the term “son of God” was very common, then why did the Jews take offence to Jesus using it? This is also tied in with my other argument, i.e. why would Jesus be accused of being the “son of God” at his trial, if it was just a common phrase that denoted no divinity? This doesn’t make any sense…

I have explained you this in every details.

Bible claims that the Jews had killed several other prophets before Jesus(PBUH) as well:

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

to be continued....



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


continue..

So the Jews killed and stoned several other prophets before Jesus(PBUH), one only has to ask why did the Jews stone those other prophets? The apparent answer is obvious, just like Jesus, the Jews would kill some prophets because they thought those prophets were claiming to be God, they would also kill those prophets because they did not like the message and did not agree with it. So the Jews accusing Jesus(PBUH) of committing blasphemy and making himself God is nothing new, the Jews had killed many other prophets before Jesus(PBUH) and it is safe to say that many of those prophets were accused of making themselves to be God.

Another reason why this argument is false is because to begin with the Jews were unbelievers, so their opinion isn't and doesn't mean much. So instead of seeing what the unbelieving Jews thought of Jesus(PBUH), why don't we look at what the masses believed of Jesus(PBUH). Once we see what Jesus' followers believed him to be this will make it easier for us to understand who Jesus Christ really was, prophet, son of God or God [God Spirit(Part of God) inside the flesh of Jesus(PBUH)]

Meaning of Son of God ... en.wikipedia.org...

For sake of argument i agree with you that Jesus(PBUH) is son of God. Do you have any explanation for below verses.

Adam, which was the son of God.” (Luke 3:38).
“Israel is my son, even my firstborn.” (Exodus 4:22)
“I will be his father, and he shall be my son.” (2 Samuel 7:13-14)
“for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” (Jeremiah 31:9)

I'm quoting above verses because of your below statement...

Again, if the term “son of God” was very common, then why did the Jews take offence to Jesus using it? This is also tied in with my other argument, i.e. why would Jesus be accused of being the “son of God” at his trial, if it was just a common phrase that denoted no divinity? This doesn’t make any sense…

Please give me some explanation for those verses comparing to yours statement above which you are trying to prove me that Jews thought that he was a divine son of God and wanted to kill him.

metaphorical meaning of son

to mildly metaphorical (believers as sons of the king [Matt. 17:25-26]),
to politely metaphorical (God’s elect being sons of Abraham [Luke 19:9]),
to colloquially metaphorical (believers as God’s sons [Matt. 7:9 and Heb 12:5]),
to spiritually metaphorical (students as sons of the Pharisees [Matt. 12:27, Acts 23:6]),
to biologically metaphorical (as in John 19:26, where Jesus describes his favorite disciple to Mary as “her son”),
to blindingly metaphorical as “sons of the kingdom” (Matt. 8:12), “sons of peace” (Luke. 10:6), “sons of light” (Luke. 16:8), and of everything from “sons of this world” (Luke 16:8) to “sons of thunder” (Mark 3:17)

It is as if this misunderstood word for “son” is waving a big sign on which is painted in bold letters: METAPHOR! Most scholars agree that the Aramaic or Hebrew word behind ‘son’ is ‘servant.’ So as the Spirit descends on Jesus at his baptism, Jesus is addressed by the voice from heaven in terms of Isaiah 42:1: ‘Behold my servant … my chosen … I have put my Spirit upon him.’ So although Mark 1:11 and 9:7 affirm that Jesus is called by God to a special messianic task, the emphasis is on Jesus’ role as the anointed servant, rather than as Son of God.

Isaiah 42:1

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.

----

Just because something is part of God does not make it God. It makes to think that he is God. As you said God did come down himself……through Jesus.

---

Islamic view is very clear. Its separate God from His creation. Spirit is also a separate identity of creation like sun, moon,planets,.etc..in the universe.

Verily! This is the true narrative (about the story of Jesus(PBUH)), and La ilaha ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshiped with Allah, the One and the Only true God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allah is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.(Quran 3:62)



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


If you say that Spirit from God guided me than i agree with you. Because that is a one of the function of the Spirit. But if you say that "The Holy Spirit is both Spirit and a person and the person is God" cant be agreed.

According to you Holy Spirit= Spirit + Person(God) [Cant be agreed]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 





Originally posted by Abuaisha
As you said God is so Powerful and Great. Then why he needs a son? Do you have answer for this? Give me a logical answer.


If you think about it, why does God need anything?…and yet he still creates things because God loves to create. If God wants to create a son, then he is powerful enough to do so.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
We are from God : It means we are creation of God. If you have read my earlier post regarding spirit & soul you would have understood how the mechanism of spirit works in our body.


Bearing in mind God is one and was all that existed in the beginning…answer the following question…

Did God create us with part of himself or not?

Yes or no…




Originally posted by Abuaisha
I feel that you are very confused. During our discussion you have change your stand many times.

1) Holy Spirit= Jesus Spirit + God Spirit (His part).
2) Holy Spirit = Jesus Spirit + God's Spirit(from God).
3) God's Spirit= Holy Spirit (Spirit of God).
4) Jesus Spirit = God Spirit ( God did come down himself……through Jesus!)

Let me tell you. God Spirit and God's Spirit are two different word with two different meaning. If you say "God Spirit"; means "God is Spirit (madeup of) and His part (spirit)" & 'God's Spirit' means "His creation(spirit)- a separate identity". I have given you an example of Hinduism belief in concept of God. Common Hindu believe everything is God and Islam says everything is God's. Difference of 's' makes a huge difference in his meaning & understanding. Please give me your correct understanding and belief in God.


I believe we are from God and a part of God.




Originally posted by Abuaisha

You again misunderstood me. I have said many times that try to understand the original manuscript. You are reading English translation which is mistranslated/misinterpreted and also you are understanding it literally. You dont read the context.




Originally posted by Abuaisha
Do you agree with me now why i have given you a meaning after reading your incorrect translation ""God casts out Christians who don't bear fruit?" which contradicts with Verse 5.


There is no contradiction between verse John 15:1-2 and verse 5.

I didn’t misunderstand you and I didn’t make an incorrect translation, I was simply quoting back to you, what I thought was your interpretation…(below)



Originally posted by Abuaisha
Still doesn't proves that as being the branches, we must be part of God. If you understand this verse literally than it means "God casts out Christians who don't bear fruit?"


*********************



Originally posted by Abuaisha
The correct translation of John 15:1-2 is something like this :

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He raise upward; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit"


Allow me to rephrase my question…

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.”

What does the above line mean to you as a Muslim? bearing in mind, that you believe Jesus is only a messenger from God.





Originally posted by Abuaisha
Another reason why this argument is false is because to begin with the Jews were unbelievers, so their opinion isn't and doesn't mean much. So instead of seeing what the unbelieving Jews thought of Jesus(PBUH), why don't we look at what the masses believed of Jesus(PBUH)…


But the Jews were the ones who first took offence, to Jesus saying he was the “son of God”.

If as you say the Jews were unbelievers, then they should have taken no offence at all, to Jesus saying he was a “servant of God”, assuming of course, that’s what Jesus actually said.

You don’t seem to be taking the overall accounts into perspective, when weighing up your decision/conclusion.




Originally posted by Abuaisha
For sake of argument i agree with you that Jesus(PBUH) is son of God. Do you have any explanation for below verses.

Adam, which was the son of God.” (Luke 3:38).

“Israel is my son, even my firstborn.” (Exodus 4:22)

“I will be his father, and he shall be my son.” (2 Samuel 7:13-14)

“for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” (Jeremiah 31:9)


(2 Samuel 7:13-14) and (Luke 3:38). We are all sons of God.

(Jeremiah 31:9) and (Exodus 4:22). Most likely firstborn in flesh and not in spirit. Jesus was firstborn in spirit and the first that God created.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
I'm quoting above verses because of your below statement...

Again, if the term “son of God” was very common, then why did the Jews take offence to Jesus using it? This is also tied in with my other argument, i.e. why would Jesus be accused of being the “son of God” at his trial, if it was just a common phrase that denoted no divinity? This doesn’t make any sense…

Please give me some explanation for those verses comparing to yours statement above which you are trying to prove me that Jews thought that he was a divine son of God and wanted to kill him.


We were discussing the verses earlier in this thread i.e. Matthew 26:62-66 and John 10:36




Originally posted by Abuaisha
It is as if this misunderstood word for “son” is waving a big sign on which is painted in bold letters: METAPHOR! Most scholars agree that the Aramaic or Hebrew word behind ‘son’ is ‘servant.’ So as the Spirit descends on Jesus at his baptism, Jesus is addressed by the voice from heaven in terms of Isaiah 42:1: ‘Behold my servant … my chosen … I have put my Spirit upon him.’ So although Mark 1:11 and 9:7 affirm that Jesus is called by God to a special messianic task, the emphasis is on Jesus’ role as the anointed servant, rather than as Son of God.

Isaiah 42:1

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.


You seem to have a hard time accepting the possibility, that Jesus can be both a servant and a son, at the same time.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
Verily! This is the true narrative (about the story of Jesus(PBUH)), and La ilaha ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshiped with Allah, the One and the Only true God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allah is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.(Quran 3:62)


Yes I agree, no one else is meant to be worshiped except God alone.


- JC


[edit on 23-6-2010 by Joecroft]



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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On the Divinity of Jesus Christ...

when the Jews asked Jesus Christ ....
"who art Thou?"
Jesus replied "Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning" (John 8:25).
Shortly after this He added: "Verily, verily I say to you,
before Abraham was,
I AM" (John 8:58).
Here it must be noted that Jesus had not said "I was,"
as would have been grammatically correct in the context, but rather used the present tense "I am," or more exactly, "I am He who is."
The deep meaning of these words becomes clear when one considers the Hebrew original meaning.
When Moses asked God's name at the burning bush, the Lord answered: "I am He who is" (YHWH).
The very name "He who is" (YHWH) indicates the distinguishing characteristic of God.
Simply put.....

"In the beginning was the Word,

and the Word was with God,

and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by Him,

and without Him was not anything made that was made…

And the Word was made flesh,

and dwelt amongst us;

and we beheld His glory,

the glory as of the only Begotten of the Father,

full of grace and truth…

No man hath seen God at any time;

the only begotten Son,

who is in the bosom of the Father,

He hath declared Him"

(John 1:1-18).

The Holy Scriptures clearly distinguish between the Son and the sons: the first is begotten;
all the others were created.

At the very onset of Jesus Christ's preaching,
God the Father testified about Him saying,
"This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17)
Later, on Mount Tabor, the Father repeated these words adding: "Hear ye Him" (Matt. 17:5).
Many more in the Holy Scriptures of who Jesus Christ is!




The many great miracles performed by the Lord through the apostles and the abundant gifts of the Holy Spirit,
which moved through them,
excited in the believers reverential fear and,
at the same time,
joy and happiness.
They tried in everything to fulfil the commandments of Christ and to live holy and pure lives.
The believers gathered in the Temple every day and listened to preaching of the apostles; and on the day of the Resurrection,
the first day of the week,
Sunday, they gathered in homes for the breaking of bread — the sacrament of Holy Communion.
LINK


Sunday....Kiriaki mera, in other words,the correct word for the first day of the week is called the ''Lords Day'' this was later changed as English became the language many speak today!
Monday....in the Greek is called THEUTERA, IN OTHER WORDS...SECOND DAY....
Of the Theotokos...."Rejoice,
who art full of grace (that is, filled with the grace of God — the gift of the Holy Spirit),
the Lord is with Thee: blessed art Thou among women."


"The Holy Spirit shall come over Thee,
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow Thee; therefore also that Holy One,
which shall be born of Thee,
shall be called the Son of God.

Gospel of Luke 1:26-38.

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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He truly is the Son of God. His blood is holy blood. I know this. This is one of the two facts I learned from personal experience.

The other fact I learned is God is Love, with a capital "l". Jesus' crucifixion was holy. So I think it's a sacrifice, not a judgment.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



HI LV,

Hope you are doing well.

I was doing some research on languages. What i found is "Syriac" was the language of Prophet Abraham(PBUH). Syriac is a ancestor of both Arabic and Hebrew. First to speak this Arabic was Prophet Ismail(PBUH) and it become the langauge of his progeny. Hebrew is the language of Prophet Isacc(PBUH) and his progeny.

Jesus(PBUH) birth happen during the time of multiculture and multienvironment.Jesus(PBUH) spoke Aramaic, the common language of Galilee during his lifetime. Though jews had once spoken Hebrew as their primary language, this has changed when israel was overthrown, first by the assyrians in the 8 century b.c and then by the babylonians in 16th century b.c. Jesus(PBUH) had learned Hebrew as a second language.Because Jesus(PBUH) had a debates theology with learned jewish teacher(pharisees). These debates generally occurrred in Hebrew.

I assumed that all this three sister languages (Aramaic, Arabic & Hebrew) are born from Syriac due to the mixing of civilization and changing the pronunciation of the word.

I'm not certain that Aramaic connects to Islam. But Arabic connects to Islam because Quran is revelead in Arabic.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



HI LV,

Hope you are doing well.

I was doing some research on languages. What i found is "Syriac" was the language of Prophet Abraham(PBUH). Syriac is a ancestor of both Arabic and Hebrew. First to speak this Arabic was Prophet Ismail(PBUH) and it become the langauge of his progeny. Hebrew is the language of Prophet Isacc(PBUH) and his progeny.

Jesus(PBUH) birth happen during the time of multiculture and multienvironment.Jesus(PBUH) spoke Aramaic, the common language of Galilee during his lifetime. Though jews had once spoken Hebrew as their primary language, this has changed when israel was overthrown, first by the assyrians in the 8 century b.c and then by the babylonians in 16th century b.c. Jesus(PBUH) had learned Hebrew as a second language.Because Jesus(PBUH) had a debates theology with learned jewish teacher(pharisees). These debates generally occurrred in Hebrew.

I assumed that all this three sister languages (Aramaic, Arabic & Hebrew) are born from Syriac due to the mixing of civilization and changing the pronunciation of the word.

I'm not certain that Aramaic connects to Islam. But Arabic connects to Islam because Quran is revelead in Arabic.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



HI LV,

Hope you are doing well.

I was doing some research on languages. What i found is "Syriac" was the language of Prophet Abraham(PBUH). Syriac is a ancestor of both Arabic and Hebrew. First to speak this Arabic was Prophet Ismail(PBUH) and it become the langauge of his progeny. Hebrew is the language of Prophet Isacc(PBUH) and his progeny.

Jesus(PBUH) birth happen during the time of multiculture and multienvironment.Jesus(PBUH) spoke Aramaic, the common language of Galilee during his lifetime. Though jews had once spoken Hebrew as their primary language, this has changed when israel was overthrown, first by the assyrians in the 8 century b.c and then by the babylonians in 16th century b.c. Jesus(PBUH) had learned Hebrew as a second language.Because Jesus(PBUH) had a debates theology with learned jewish teacher(pharisees). These debates generally occurrred in Hebrew.

I assumed that all this three sister languages (Aramaic, Arabic & Hebrew) are born from Syriac due to the mixing of civilization and changing the pronunciation of the word.

I'm not certain that Aramaic connects to Islam. But Arabic connects to Islam because Quran is revelead in Arabic.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Hi Lv,

Do you do any kind of meditation and try to concentrate on something?



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Hi LV,

Something for you.

Jesus(PBUH) used the word Allah in Aramaic; while he preached the words of GOD Almighty:

Words are...

ALAAHAA - - - God
EESHO - - - - Jesus
MARRYAA - - - - Lord
DEENAA - - - - religion
MISHILMAANAA (M) / MISHILMENTAA (F) - - - - muslim
QYEMTAA D MAARRAAN - - - - resurrection
BERRYAANAA - - - - creator
ROOKHAA D QOODSHAA - - - - holy spirit / holy spirit
ROOKHAA - - - - soul / spirit
GAANAA - - - - spirit
HEKLAA D ALAAHAA - - - - temple of God
JAHENEM - - - - hell
SAA'TD'AANAA - - - - satan
MAACHIT - - - - mosque (In arabic you pronouns "Masjid"
SOMAA - - - - fasting from dairy products and meat (in Arabic you pronouns "Soum"

Phrases and Common Sayings:

ALAAHAA REKHMAANEL'E - - - - God is merciful

YA ALAAH - - - - Oh God

ALAAHAA MINAAKH (F) / MINOOKH (M) - - - - God be with you

ALAAHAA NAADIRAAKH (F) / NAADIROOKH (M) - - - - God keep you in well being

ALAAHAA MAANIKHL'E (M) / MAANIKHLAA (F) - - - - God rest his (M) / her (F)soul (What you say to someone when someone they love dies.)

ALAAHAA BAARIKHLAAKH (F) / BAARIKHLOOKH (M) - - - - God bless you

SHIMAA D ALAAHAA - - - - in the name of God

SHQEER'E D ALAAHAA - - - - thanks to God

BRREKHM'E (BEE RREKHM'E) - - - - with His (God's) mercy. what you say to someone after they sneeze

MAARRYAA / AALAAHAA SAAHAADIL'E - - - - honest to God / the lord/God is the witness

MINTAA MIN ALAH / MINTAA MIN MAARRYAA - - - - with thanks to God/the lord / with obligation to God/the lord

BRROOCHTAA D MAARRYAA / BROOCHTAA D AALAAHAA - - - - a blessing from lord/God. When God has given a person , family, home something blessed.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


After getting those words in Aramic, i have now surety to say that it connects to Islam. Aramic is very similar to Arabic. The Pronunciation is almost same.

I myself use many of them "Phrases and Common Sayings" in my day to day life which i wrote in aramic which sounds similar to arabic.



posted on Jun, 24 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 


I try to focus daily at some point, mostly in my morning time with the sun, of a universal mean and purpose, of the unity of life. Seeking cycles and orders in the functions of things. And always, trying to stay humble and honest before Thee.

I dont really meditate much...just have quiet time with Thee.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 09:00 AM
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i]reply to post by Joecroft
 


Hi Joe,

Hope you are doing well.

I didnt ask you whether God is capable of creating son or not. My question is why He should create a Son? What is the wisdom behind in creating only Son (Jesus PBUH) or all of us (this is according to your viewpoint)?

Which sometimes before you agreed that Jesus(PBUH) is not a biological son. It was a just a expression given in the bible. This expression is just to honor the person. To give him a value and his important. Same thing Almighty Lord has said in many places in OT. Not for the human being, but for the place.

Israel is my son, even my firstborn.” (Exodus 4:22)

Does the above verse means that Isreal is a divine son of God. This is just an expression to show the important of the place. Lift or give high status to that place(Israel) compare to other lands on the earth.

---

Did God create us with part of himself or not?

My answer is very simple and straight forward. If you think God is a Spirit(made of Spirit) and He created our spirit from His own spirit than my answer will simple "NO".

===

I believe we are from God and a part of God

We are from God and we are part of His kingdom. NOT PART OF GOD HIMSELF. Because He is Unique and all Powerful. If His OWN spirit (according to you; you have mentioned God came to earth in the form of Jesus(PBUH). His Spirit resided inside Jesus(PBUH) body. In otherwords Jesus(PBUH) was a walking God during his time. If that is what you mean by Spirit of God, than we all have the same Spirit of God. Do you mean that our spirit which is PART of God himself lives in our body than it means that God is living inside our body as a spirit.) is living in our body than we might have a character of Most Powerful Almighty God. But we have some limitation in our character. We cant see what is happening in next room or behind us. We have to eat, drink and sleep. These are our necessity of our life to live. Overall we have some limitation.
So the idea of having His OWN part as a spirit doesn’t fit well.
------

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.” What does the above line mean to you as a Muslim? bearing in mind, that you believe Jesus is only a messenger from God.

There are some rules and regulations for research in every art and science. You cannot reach the correct conclusion unless you follow them. In the subject of interpreting religious scriptures it has to follow the same condition.

1) Situation/Occasion when it was said.
2) Literal and Context of verse revealed before and after.

As you have given me only one verse, i will try to interpret it my own according to my knowledge given by Almighty lord. There are two character in this verse "True Vine" and "Vinedresser".

According to my research

Jesus(PBUH) is the True Vine: A vine is any kind of long, trailing branch, crawling along a fence or up a wall or wrapping itself around a pole or tree. In the vineyard, it is the whole grape plant. Vineyard keepers traditionally keep the vine at waist height.

God the Father is the Vinedresser: The vinedresser is the keeper of the vineyard. His task is to cultivate each branch so that it will bear as much fruit as possible by arranging/well organize/raise upward the branches, sometimes cuts of the branches which becomes sick and useless & also water it and fertilize the soil for more growth.etc.

In the next verse..Fruits is used as a Metaphor. Fruits represent our good work, all good works done should be ONLY according to the teaching of Jesus(PBUH); because he is a true vine. Anything in addition or deletion can be said as innovation in religion.

Being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.

Hope the answer the question. During the time of Prophet Jesus(PBUH) till the last prophet of God came he was true vine. His teaching, good work and guidance was a true vine. But after some period of time Almighty God sent his last and final Prophet Muhammed(PBUH). Who is indeed true vine for a believer. During the time of Jesus(PBUH) till the last prophet came, Jesus(PBUH) was a way of life, nobody can reach father accept by his teaching. This was during his time and till the last prophet of God come. Last and final Prophet of God had come now, then he should be the way of life till the last day. Because Almighty God will not send any more prophet and messenger with new law; but Prophet Jesus(PBUH) will come back from the heavens to kill Anti-Christ. And he will follow the laws of Prophet Muhammed(PBUH).

=====
But the Jews were the ones who first took offence, to Jesus saying he was the “son of God”.

You are wrong again. Jews did not take offence when he said "son of God". That was not the first time they took offense. They try to stone him before in many occasions when he said "I and father are One" and "i was before Abrahim". They couldn’t understand his teaching. They took his word literally. As i said before jews misunderstood the message of Jesus(PBUH). Jews were just finding the fault to accuse him and to kill him.

For more information you can refer to muslim-responses.com...

For a while i agree that Jesus(PBUH) claimed himself to be a divine son of God and Jews took and offence and try to kill him. But on other hand we see Almighty God says "Here is my servant". Why didnt Almighty God said "Here is my divine son"? Not a common son like me and you, but special son. Almighty God said servant. So to whom shall we believe Almighty God or Jesus (PBUH).

Isaiah 42:1

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations
----

Did you said Isreal is a firstborn son in flesh?
“Israel is my son, even my firstborn.” (Exodus 4:22)

---

If you say that Jesus(PBUH) is a servant of God and title "Son of God" which is given to him, to honor him and to raise his status. It just an expression and does not make him real divine son of God. Than its OK with me.

Like i have given a an example of "Isreal is my son, even my firstborn".



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 


Abuaisha, you keep chasing books for your answers.




Does the above verse means that Isreal is a divine son of God. This is just an expression to show the important of the place. Lift or give high status to that place(Israel) compare to other lands on the earth.


The above is not the nature of what is of Spirit. God does not concern Theeself with a special land above others. This is the nature of man, of flesh, of what humans concern themselves with.



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