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The blood of Jesus Christ...a judgement or a sacirifice?

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posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Hi Joecroft,

Thank you for your reply. And hope you are doing well.

Before i begin to answer your last post Jesus 'Son of God'. I need to clarify some basic understanding between 'us' regarding the topic below.

1) What is God?
2) Where is God?
3) What is God made of?
4) Where did God come from?
5) Is everything God and God is everything?

Much appreciate if you can get me some logical answers from the Scriptures.

Many thanks indeed.




posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by helen670
 


Hi Helen,

Thank you for your reply and i hope you are doing well.

Before i begin to reply your post, i made humble request to get some answers of my last post. Have you done your homework?

The Bible verses you quoted me i didn't understood what you are trying to explain me. Please kindly let me know what is your belief regarding Jesus (PBUH).

1) Jesus is Almighty God.
2) Son of Almighty God.
3) Prophet of Almighty God.

I need one word answer with few bible quoting if you wish.

Many thanks indeed.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 05:48 AM
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Abuaisha,

This Thread is not about you. It is about whether the blood of Christ is a judgement or a sacrifice.

From my recollection of the Thread, your perception is that it makes no difference, Jesus is not important enough a character to your beliefs.

My belief is that Jesus was the fulfilment of the Law. He gave His life for a reason, His blood was spilled. This Act, CHANGED the working of the Spirit, the Spirit then 'released', poured out over all the Earth, a gift to all humanity, empowered to work in the hearts and lives of all who seek Truth, not through another human but in direct relationship to and with God. Jesus never said He would send the Spirit to only one, not even Peter, the rock upon whom Christ said He shall build His Church.

Each time you write a prophet's name or a Holy name, you follow it with an abbreviated blessing. Why is this?



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by teapot
 


Hi Teapot,

Hope you are doing well. You scare sometimes when you pop up like this. About it shows that you are still alive in this thread.

Anyway, where did you find where i said that this topic is about me. As requested, for your kind information my belief in Jesus(Peace Be Upon Him) is a Mighty Messenger and a Prophet of Almighty God as well as WORD of Almighty God.

I think you are only one in this thread who is having some issues with off topic discussion. I'm very much enjoying in this ongoing conversation. I hope i may expect the same opinion with Joe & LV.

Your question regarding why i say "Peace Be Upon Him" after mentioning Prophets and Holy Name.

There are different opinion of the scholars.

1) It is commanded to do so.
2) To give honor and respect.
3) When we sent blessings upon prophet, messengers, angels & righteous servant of Almighty God in return we also receive blessings and mercy of Almighty lord.

Actual word for this salutation is "Peace and Blessings be upon him".

Rest Allah knows the best.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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The idea of blood sacrifice is barbaric and not required.

Are you willing to look up these and comment on our salvation without the blood or Jesus?

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 



Hi Abuaisha

Hope you are well also.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
1) What is God?


God is the creator of the universe and everything in it.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
2) Where is God?


In heaven.




Originally posted by Abuaisha
3) What is God made of?


God is made of spirit but I don’t know what spirit is made of.


John 4:24
“God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”




Originally posted by Abuaisha
4) Where did God come from?


God has always existed and will always exist forever.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
5) Is everything God and God is everything?


No, I don’t believe so.
But…
Seeing as God created everything, then everything must be a part of God.


- JC



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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"No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3).

Peter the Apostle of Christ....
"'Brethren, what shall we do?'
And Peter said to them,
'Repent,
and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit'" (vs. 37-38).
The words of Peter so moved the people that "those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls" (v. 41).
"And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved" (v. 47).

And the Holy Spirit........
'Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit'" (John 1:32-33)....Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!
"And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God" (1:34).
He is the Son of God!
There can only be ONE and not many!



The old Adam,
however, had failed to safeguard this state of grace.
He and his seed had lost the presence of the Holy Spirit conferred at Creation.
What was needed, Cyril believed, was a Second Adam, who would not forfeit the gift of the Holy Spirit.
From the old Adam the Holy Spirit "flew away" (apepte), but on the Second Adam He came down and remained.
The Spirit descended on Jesus, wrote Cyril, "that He might become accustomed to remain [menein] in us" (Commentary on John, on 1:32-33).
Thus the Holy Spirit Descending on ...

Interpreting Holy Scripture is not SELF Interpreting, if it was ,then there would be many new and modern translations!
And because this has happened and it is still happening,we see many so called TRUTHS!
The Old Adam....died because he fell away(SIN-MISSED THE MARK)from God.
The New Adam becomes Jesus Christ!
The New Woman becomes the Theotokos...Virgin Mary!
Therefore we we are given a new life in the New Adam, of who is Jesus Christ and no other!
The descent of the Holy Spirit was not an unexpected event for the Apostles.
As far back as a few centuries before the Savior's birth God began to prepare people for the day of their spiritual rebirth.
He promised through his prophets: "It shall come to pass afterward,
that I shall pour out My Spirit on all flesh ... With joy you will draw water from the well of salvation ... For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground ... A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone, and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put My Spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in My statutes and observe and carry out My judgements" (Joel 2: 28; Is. 12: 3, 44:3; Ezek. 11:19-20).
This can be NO OTHER then Jesus Christ!
And again Jesus Christ the Lord says....
"I will ask the Father,
and He will give you another Comforter,
to be with you forever,
the Spirit of Truth ...
He will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I say unto you ...
He, the Spirit of Truth,
which proceeds from the Father,
will bear witness of Me" (John 14: 16-17, 26; 15: 26)....again there is no other but Jesus Christ!
"What shall we do now?"
"Repent," was Peter's answer, "and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Repent....


ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


How great it is...to see your name, and then see you say this...




The idea of blood sacrifice is barbaric and not required.


Great to have you popping in on this thread.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


HI LV,

Appreciate your frequent replies. Due to weekend i couldn't able to post anything to this thread.

Your Question:
"If you do something for reward...are you doing it for true reasons of the heart? "

My reply is : I would simply ask you a question; that what will be the final destination of a true believer? You may or may not be agree with my answer, but its 'Paradise". Paradise is final destination for all true believers. This is big reward (paradise) those who does good deeds in this life.

The prophetic statement which i quoted you is called "Hadith Qudsi". Sacred hadith, have a particularly important status because their meaning is entirely from Almighty Lord(Allah) while the wording is that of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) himself. Almighty Lord says that for acts of worship to be acceptable and for a person to be rewarded for them, there are two conditions which must be met:

1)The first condition: it should be devoted to Almighty Lord (Allah) Alone. The meaning of worshiping Almighty Lord (Allah) alone is that the person should intend in all his words and deeds, both inward and outward, to seek His pleasure.

Allah Says in Quran:
“(Saying): “We feed you seeking Allah’s Countenance only. We wish for no reward, nor thanks from you” (Quran:76:9)

2)The second condition is that the action should be in accordance with the only way which Almighty Lord (Allah) has prescribed for worship, which is by following the Prophet (PBUH) in the laws that he has brought.

It was narrated that the Prophet (PBUH) said: “Whoever does any action that is not in accordance with this matter of ours (i.e., Islam), will have it rejected.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Aqdiyyah, 3243).

The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions’ is the means of weighing up the inner nature of deeds. Just as every action which is not intended for the sake of Almighty Lord(Allah) brings no reward to the one who does it, so too every deed which is not in accordance with the command of Allah and His Messenger will also be rejected and thrown back at the one who does it. Everyone who innovates in Islam something for which Almighty Lord(Allah) and His Messenger have not granted permission, that thing is nothing to do with Islam.

Hope the answer the question.
----

Your Question: So Gabriel loves so and so without true understanding of why so and so should be loved? Is this not somewhat robotic....to be told something, and just do it? Where is the understanding?

My Answer: I thought you have good knowledge of the Scriptures as well as the creation of Almighty Lord. The Angels, like all of creation, are the work of Almighty Lord(Allah) and are made of light to serve and worship Him. Angels do not have a free 'WILL' like human & Jinn. They just obey commands of Almighty Lord. They follow Allah's orders perfectly, never make mistakes and are never disobedient. So there is no question of understanding.

-----

Jesus(PBUH) was following the Straight Path of Almighty Lord. And he was advising to his disciples to follow him (his path) to reach Father (Almighty Lord). Therefore if any Christian believe in Jesus(PBUH) than they should sincerely follow the path led by Jesus(PBUH). One should refer to the books and see how did Jesus(PBUH) prayed to Almighty Lord and what did he commanded to do before his departure. And stop inventing things in the religion which we call innovation. Anything that did not exist during the time of Jesus(PBUH) is subjected to Innovation in the religion and every innovation is a misguidance. I have mentioned you above the two conditions for acceptance of any type worship.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 


Hi Abuaisha/

Why do Muslims sacrifice a lamb/sheep at Ramadan and other holy days?
What exactly is the significance of this?

Also, the Islamic 'Paradise'of which you speak,why are there no women mentioned going there?

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by helen670
 


Hi Helen,

Hope you are doing well. I'm directly jumping to you to answer your short query before replying to Joe.

First place you haven't done your homework yet. Please kindly get some answer of my previous questions.

The answer of your first question why do Muslim sacrifice lamp/sheep at Ramdhan.

Answer: Muslim do not sacrifice lamp/sheep during Ramadan. They do this ritual in Eid Al-Adha (During Hajj). Please get the correct information of a question you are asking.

Eid ul-Adha is to honor the Prophet Abraham's(PBUH) willingness to sacrifice his son Ishmael at God's command. The holiday is celebrated with the prayers, small gifts for children, distribution of meat to the needy and social gatherings.

Now do not bring some stores from the books or website and try to prove me that this Command was given by Almighty Lord for his second son Issac(PBUH).

Your second question regarding no mentioning of women in the paradise. Believe me as a Muslim i was not knowing about this, you have just informed me. What will men do without women in Paradise...!!!

Dear Sister. From where did you get this knowledge that women will not entered in 'Paradise'? Both believing men and women will entered in the paradise.

There are many place in Quran Allah Almighty says;

And those(men & women) who believe (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, they are dwellers of Paradise, they will dwell therein forever (Quran 2:82)

And whoever does righteous good deeds, male or female, and is a (true) believer [in the Oneness of Allah], such will enter Paradise and not the least injustice, even to the size of a speck on the back of a date-stone,will be done to them.(Quran 4:124)

O mankind ! Verily, there has come to you a convincing proof ( Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)) from you lord, and We sent down to you a manifest light (this Quran). So as for those(men & women) who believed in Allah and held fast to Him, He will admit them to His Mercy and Grace (i.e. Paradise), and guide them to Himself by a Straight Path (Quran 4:175)

Allah has promised those(men and women) who believe (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism) and do deeds of righteousness, that for them there is forgiveness and a great reward (i.e. Paradise) (Quran 5:9)


Above are few verses i have mentioned. You will find many such verses in Quran. I request the kind reader not to go and search the anti-islam site and brings such invalid proof. If they want to know about Islam they can buy English translation Quran and read it by themselves and if they have any doubt then they can consult to the Islamic Scholar.

As i said previously that Quran is a speech of Almighty Lord and it is guidance to Mankind who sincerely wants to seek it. Those who believe in One true God and Last day(Judgment Day), then they should read it at once.

Many thanks of reading. I'm still waiting for those answers.



posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 


Hello Abuaisha!

No worries about a delay in any replies, not a problem and always take your time. Hope you are well!

Again, I will state, that what I bring forth is what I feel I have learned, through guidance of Jesus's eternal soul/spirit as well as through the nature of the Holy Spirit. I have yet to gain any understanding in God needing or desiring worship. To me, it seems as if there is a science to it all. The exact reasons for us experiencing and learning I do not know....I think there may be experiences of paradise, but I do not find this a eternal goal for our purpose. Just as though our Earthy body recycles back to the Earth from where it came, I think our body of Spirit cycles back to where it came too. I think that science is tied to the mechanics of the Spirit to a degree....and when all things cycle back to the Spirit, we see the 'big crunch' of space....and then, a cycle starts again, with a big bang. I think along with Spirit, energy is eternal....and there will forever be and has always been, some sort of functioning with 'space/time and time/space. This is something I am still malleable on...but ponder often. There is a strong resonation in me that agrees that energy of the Universe, has had no beginning nor end, for it is linked to the Spirit of life, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God.

I think we do experience a paradise, that we are somewhat creators of. Through our decisions and growth, we are making for ourselves a paradise to rest in and heal and learn....or we are making a hell like place, to harden our hearts and learn. I do not agree with the idea that we will forever be in paradise worshiping God. The nature of God that I experience, desires no worship from me. So I do not agree with the stories that says God created the angels to worship him, just the same. You are quick to believe, because it is written.

Basically, with what you say about the angels purpose having no free will....then the angels are like robots.

What I am being taught within me, is if I was to 'reach my heaven' ....how could I have rest, when I know there are still many souls, many vessels of the Spirit, still learning and experiencing the illusion of being separated from God. What this tells me, is no one is going to find true rest....until all cycle back through with true understanding. We are not individuals in Spirit....we are one in Spirit....the Divine Will is that all will find the way. To become of the Divine Will....is to keep offering our soul/spirit back to the needs of the ONE, to help and guide others, back to where they came from.

I often outside of religious threads use the terms 'other selves'. All the beings on this other planet, in Spirit, are another 'me'. I, in Spirit, are all of the other beings. Our highest purpose is not about our individual selves....but the ALL. Our highest purpose, as a sphere, is create unity and this will literally be, heaven on Earth so to speak, being a state of existence....not a place outside of Earth or somewhere in the sky. To me this seems like a natural process and purpose, for the souls/spirit to unite as ONE.




I thought you have good knowledge of the Scriptures as well as the creation of Almighty Lord


*smiles* you should no by now Abuisha....just because it is written, does not mean that is what I believe or understand. I asked you....what understanding is there for a angel or any being to just do as they are told....and again, you answer me not from your heart, your inner being of your own understanding....but you answer me from a Earthly object, that has only told you how it is.

If you have understanding in a God that desires worship....then we are experiences two very different natures in our Spiritual time. God is more humble then you could image, just because God is God, the highest vibration of all things....does not mean Thee needs others to acknowledged this in a worshiping manner. Its not like God needs to be reminded Thee is God. Its not like God is prideful in Thee's nature. Thee does not boast.

Always a joy talking with you, and as always, Im only sharing, not trying to offend in anyway.

My best
LV



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Hi Joecroft,

Hope you are doing fine. Thank you for answering those questions. Please find below Islamic view of understanding God and let me know if you agree or disagree.

1) What is God? Agreed with your answer.

God is the creator of everything in this universe. Almighty Lord is omnipresent(Its not being present everywhere simultaneously, but having knowledge of it), omniscient (Knowing Everything), omnibenevolent (All Good), and omnipotent(All Powerful). He is the Alpha and the Omega. He is one and cannot be more than one. Nothing is equal-to or like Him. He is Unique.

2) Where is God? Agreed with your answer.
He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He rose over(Istawa) towards the heaven and made them seven heaven and He is the All-Knower of everything. (Quran 2:29)

3) What is God made of? Not Agree much.

God is not 'made'. It is a human method of trying to understand the world around us by identifying what things are made of. But God is not compound or made of anything and He is not in the form of pieces. In fact, God is beyond the realms of physics as He has no components or dimensions and cannot be measured. For a sake of argument if we agree that God is Spirit , we do not know what kind of Spirit is made up of, It means that there is a creator other than God, or a God before this one who created God with Spirit. So the question "what is God made of?" cannot apply. God is the causer of creation - nothing 'caused' Him. He is the One uncreated one.

4) Where did God come from? Agree with your answer.

He is ever-existent. God is the causer of creation - nothing 'caused' Him. He has no creator.He is the first and He will also be the last, when there exists nothing except Him. He is Eternal. He is the One uncreated one.

5) Is everything God and God is everything? Not Agree much.

We can say that everything come from God but not everything is a part of God, because He is a creator. Creator cannot be a part of a creation. If you agree with my

1st view "Nothing is equal-to or like Him. He is Unique. "
3rd "God is not 'made'"
4th " He is Eternal. He is the One uncreated one."

...than the statement of having everything is a part of God is incorrect, but everything from God is correct view. Such statement "everything is a partof God" brings us near the belief that "Everything is God" because part of God is working inside the living being. Like in Hinduism they believe everything is God but Islamic view is everything is God's (i.e. from the God).

All the creations of God has some limitation, But God has no Limit. Same rules applied for our "spirit" or generally to any Spirit of God.

OT says that "God nature doesnt change, He always the same". It is quite clear from those verses Malachi 3:6; "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. but i was surprise to hear your statement in another thread "God did come down himself……through Jesus!" God becoming a Man is called nature change. If i go and become women that does not a nature change? If you mean the Spirit of God resided in the the flesh of Jesus(PBUH). It is still a nature change and i have given you a proof above in "What is God made of?"

Thank you for reading and rest Allah know the best.



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Abuaisha
 



Hi Abuaisha



Originally posted by Abuaisha
3) What is God made of? Not Agree much.

God is not 'made'. It is a human method of trying to understand the world around us by identifying what things are made of. But God is not compound or made of anything and He is not in the form of pieces. In fact, God is beyond the realms of physics as He has no components or dimensions and cannot be measured. For a sake of argument if we agree that God is Spirit , we do not know what kind of Spirit is made up of, It means that there is a creator other than God, or a God before this one who created God with Spirit. So the question "what is God made of?" cannot apply. God is the causer of creation - nothing 'caused' Him. He is the One uncreated one.


So you have asked me a trick question?


I took your 3rd question to mean “what is God made up of”, in terms of his substance…not what made God.

“God is Spirit”, is the nearest thing to describing what God is made up of. Obviously I believe that nothing “made” God, which was made clear from my reply to your fourth question i.e. that I believe that nothing else created God and that he has always existed.



Originally posted by Abuaisha
…But God is not compound or made of anything and He is not in the form of pieces. In fact, God is beyond the realms of physics as He has no components or dimensions and cannot be measured.


How do you know all this…?
How do you know that God is not made of anything?



Originally posted by Abuaisha
For a sake of argument if we agree that God is Spirit , we do not know what kind of Spirit is made up of, It means that there is a creator other than God, or a God before this one who created God with Spirit.


Not necessarily…God may have always existed as spirit.




Originally posted by Abuaisha
5) Is everything God and God is everything? Not Agree much.

We can say that everything come from God but not everything is a part of God, because He is a creator. Creator cannot be a part of a creation. If you agree with my

1st view "Nothing is equal-to or like Him. He is Unique. "
3rd "God is not 'made'"
4th " He is Eternal. He is the One uncreated one."

...than the statement of having everything is a part of God is incorrect, but everything from God is correct view. Such statement "everything is a partof God" brings us near the belief that "Everything is God" because part of God is working inside the living being. Like in Hinduism they believe everything is God but Islamic view is everything is God's (i.e. from the God).


Well, I agree with points 1,3,4 but…


John 15:1-2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful



With God being the gardener, Jesus being the true vine and us being the branches, then we must all be a part of God.

Being a part of God does not make us God.

Imagine the first ever tree…it produced seeds which later grew from the ground to produced a second tree. Now the second tree can never be exactly like the first tree. Most people would say that the second tree came from the first tree but it could also be argued that the second tree is a part of the first tree, even though they are not physically connected by outward appearances. The two trees are a part of each other spiritually and genetically, even though they appear to be apart.

Seeing as everything came from God in the beginning, I would say that everything is somehow connected to God or a part of God but not fully God.




Originally posted by Abuaisha
OT says that "God nature doesnt change, He always the same". It is quite clear from those verses Malachi 3:6; "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. but i was surprise to hear your statement in another thread "God did come down himself……through Jesus!" God becoming a Man is called nature change. If i go and become women that does not a nature change? If you mean the Spirit of God resided in the the flesh of Jesus(PBUH). It is still a nature change and i have given you a proof above in "What is God made of?"


Yes in that post, I meant the spirit of God coming to reside in the flesh of Jesus.

As for nature change…there was no nature change! The Father/God that spoke through Jesus had not changed, his nature was the same.

Judaism, Islam and Christianity can only help to guide us, as to “what God is made up of”, because there is no definitive proof on that question.



- JC


[edit on 20-6-2010 by Joecroft]



posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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to answer the OP, Without Jesus sacrifice we would not have forgivness of sin.

As for what I believe people are talking right now. Jesus is the son of God devine and all. God said that Jesus was his son. Jesus said that he came down from heaven not to do his own will but the will of the father. Jesus prays and talks to God, Jesus worships God. Jesus calls God his own father. Jesus also says that God is greater than him.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Hi Joe,

Thank you for your reply.

Regarding how do i know all these. In Islam we have some strict rules when we have to analyze any subject or situation we have to follow Quran & Prophetic narration. No one can follow their own personal opinion, but sometimes in some case scholar have different opinion regarding the interpretation of verses. If any scholar opinion contradict with Quran & Prophetic narration we reject it.

As i have said in my last post Allah Almighty has called Himself with his beautiful names in order to know his nature. In Islam, Almighty God is known as "Allah" and has many different attributes, or descriptive names, which explain more about His nature.There 99 attributes of Allah Almighty Lord and many more He Himself knows the best.

Please check below the attributes of Almighty Lord.

www.jannah.org...
----

John 4:24 “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Regarding the English translation of verses, do not take each verses literally, see the context.

The Gospels are translated in English. As i have mentioned in my earlier post that one word has many meaning in the 3 sister language ( Aramic, Arabic & Hebrew).

In Bible you will find many things misinterpreted/mistranslated from the original manuscript and thus create contradiction.
----

We all knows that God is so Holy/Divine/Pure. According to you do you think that the part of His spirit which is so Holy is residing in us and still we human do mistakes/sins. How is this possible? If we think the part of God (part of His spirit) which is so holy resides in all living beings(human,jinn, animals, birds, insects, tree,bacteria, HIV Virus..etc). If i give you a list you will get amazed. Do you think they all have a spirit of God, which is His part? According to you, we carry "His part of spirit" in our flesh which is so Holy and go to impure and forbidden places. So how can you explain this?

So in such situation we can simply say that we are from God and not part of God.

--
John 15:1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful

Still doesn't proves that as being the branches, we must be part of God. If you understand this verse literally than it means "God casts out Christians who don't bear fruit?"

If you take the meaning of John 15:1-2 literally than it will contradict with John 15:5. "He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit," because even though v. 5 insists that any one who abides in Jesus will bear fruit, the branch in v. 2 (even though it is "in" Jesus) fails to bear fruit and gets taken out.

Again I'm saying in English Bible you will find many things misinterpreted/mistranslated from the original manuscript and thus create contradiction. So it is recommended to learn the original manuscript so that we can get a correct meaning.

---
The reason for asking me a questions on the topic of God is to layout clear picture of our understanding of God. Who He really is. There is a distinction between Him and His creation. Now lets come back again to our discussion with "son of God".

Did John(PBUH) bears witness that Jesus is the divine son of God? No, John bears witness that Jesus is the son of God! Anyone who knows Jewish and Israelite understanding will know that the term son of God does not denote divinity, nor does it make part of one God. The term son of God was very common amongst the people of Palestine during those days, it simply meant a man of God, a true believer(servant of God), a prophet, a messenger, and the Messiah.

----
Judaism, Islam and Christianity can only help to guide us, as to “what God is made up of”, because there is no definitive proof on that question.

In my earlier post, i have mentioned concerning "Spirit of God"

And they ask you (O Muhammad PBUH) concerning the Ruh (the Spirit); Say: "The Ruh (the spirit): is one of the things, the knowledge of which i only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little" (Quran 17:85). Do you agree the Quran verse?

During the time of Prophet Muhammed(PBUH). Jews were so confused about the Spirit of God. They wants to know what spirit. And they finally ask to Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) concerning Spirit. Than Allah Almighty revealed above verse.

Whatever good i wrote is from Almighty Lord and whatever mistakes/error is from me. Rest Allah knows the best.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


In Hebrew word "Spirit" is knows as "Ruah" and in Arabic it is known to be as "Ruh".

Do you see the similarities in this two languages. If you read Hebrew Bible and Arabic Quran where ever the "Ruah" or "Ruh" word comes, the English translation gives different meaning in different places.

Ruh/Ruah = Can be an angle, revelation & mercy of His command, inspiration, life.etc..it can be many things.

God knows the best.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Can anybody tell me what was Jesus(PBUH) according to Mary(PBUH)? Because she would know him better than anyone else.

Many thanks.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


As you mentioned, no religion has a proof what "God is made of". Therefore, we have no rights or authority to say that we are part of God/Children of God/Sons of God. All these statements are invalid because we do not know what God is made up of. We can say we are "servant of God" which is more appropriate because we do not have our own "WILL/COMMAND" we obey and submit the "WILL/COMMAND" of Almighty Lord. That is the purpose of our life.



posted on Jun, 21 2010 @ 04:29 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Hi LV,

Do you have any comments on my Islamic view of God?

I want to know something from you regarding our heart. Does our heart can hear and see?

Many thanks indeed.




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