Carl Sagan Knew UFOs Are Real, Confidant Reveals!

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Yeah because respected scientists who claim UFOs are real without any hard evidence are always taken seriously.

You took one line out of context and not by accident. Rather than re-argue the point, I invite everyone to read it without Muzzleflash's usual out-of-context twisting.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Yeah because respected scientists who claim UFOs are real without any hard evidence are always taken seriously.

You took one line out of context and not by accident. Rather than re-argue the point, I invite everyone to read it without Muzzleflash's usual out-of-context twisting.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Yeah because when you get nailed to the wall it suddenly becomes "out of context".

Right it wasn't by accident. But it was within context perfectly.

It's called sarcasm.

I agree that it's only rumor, of course.

But when you said "not based on any sort of reality", I had to come after you, because you nor I would have any idea what that "reality" actually is.

I will not defend the OP(because its a silly rumor), I will only defend my own statement that Sagan made it clear his beliefs in DHW.

I'll even go look it up right now just to post it here. First I gotta find the book.

Carl Sagan was also a dedicated marijuana smoker, who loved his herb.

Many times the people who know the truth cannot or will not speak out to protect their cash cows...too bad sagan cared more about money than truth...his legacy will be of a man who had a chance to really help but sold out.

Here is proof he was a stoner: From WIKIPEDIA:

Sagan was a user of marijuana. Under the pseudonym "Mr. X", he contributed an essay about smoking cannabis to the 1971 book Marihuana Reconsidered.[46][47] The essay explained that marijuana use had helped to inspire some of Sagan's works and enhance sensual and intellectual experiences. After Sagan's death, his friend Lester Grinspoon disclosed this information to Sagan's biographer, Keay Davidson. The publishing of the biography, Carl Sagan: A Life, in 1999 brought media attention to this aspect of Sagan's life.[48][49][50]


link: en.wikipedia.org...

Carl Sagan says he does not believe ET's are visiting Earth and the OP says he really didn't mean to say that. Good job of mind reading. Fits right in with this statement from Sagan.

There are individuals who very strongly want to believe that UFO's are of intelligent extraterrestrial origin. Essentially to my view, for religious motives; that is, things are so bad down here, maybe somebody from up there will come and save us from ourselves. This takes all sorts of subtle and not so subtle forms.

files.ncas.org...

Here he clearly admits there are many cases that remain unexplained, and purposely dismissed unfairly by the government debunkers. (In reference to Blue Book)

Demon Haunted World pg 82-83

"But what was in those files wasn't worth much. For example, senior citizens reported lights hovering over their small New Hampshire town for more than an hour, and the case is explained as a wing of strategic bombers from a nearby Air Force base on a training exercise. Could the bombers take an hour to pass over the town? No. Did the bombers fly over the town at the time the UFOs were reported? No. Can you explain to us, Colonel, how strategic bombers can be described as "hovering"? No. The slipshod Bluebook investigations played little scientific role, but did serve the important bureaucratic purpose of convincing much of the public that the Air Force was on the job; and that maybe there was nothing to UFO reports.

Of course, this doesn't preclude the possibility that another, more serious, more scientific study of UFOs was going on somewhere else- headed, say, by a brigadier general rather than a lieutenant colonel. "

He is obviously admitting that there are UFO reports that are not explained by Blue Book and that he didn't consider it a legitimate scientific investigation. AKA BS to mislead the public.

He makes a clear distinction between the word "UFO" and "Alien spacecraft." This is because, if we call it an 'alien spacecraft' it is not a "UFO" anymore, it is clearly identified.

He admits that there are unexplained events. Unidentified.

The entire book is worth reading. It's a very good guide for skepticism. The best in my opinion.

"Carl Sagan knew UFOs were real" of course he did. He didn't say "aliens" are real though, because he had no proof, as the novel makes entirely clear.

It's not his fault that when the words "UFO" pop up, everyone automatically think it means "Alien Spacecraft".

But everyone assumes that wrongly all the time...

Did Sagan believe in UFOs? Yes.

Did he think they were aliens? No.

He wanted evidence first before he jumped to that conclusion.

reply to post by muzzleflash

I'm looking at my copy of Demon Haunted World right now. Can you point out somewhere he implies that ET's really are visiting Earth? I can't seem to find anything but an overt disbelief that that is the case.

Nevermind, you clarified your statement while I was finding my book. But I would argue not that he thinks they are unexplainable, just that Blue Book was not very interested in explaining them. His belief was that they were all explainable.

[edit on 5/9/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by draknoir2

And what a revelation that Carl Sagan actually believed that there are objects in the sky that haven't yet been identified by the observers!

Like I said, read Demon Haunted World and you will take that statement back. He says clearly that some cases cannot nor will be explained.

It's not a revelation at all, the book is becoming quite aged now.

Meant sarcastically.

Acknowledging a belief that people see things in the sky which they cannot identify is not really that controversial, even for a scientist like Carl Sagan.

I am so glad I found this, read it and posted it. I have learned a lot today.

Again, I just missed out on Sagan and who he was etc.

As far as him using pot, I would think that was common place in those higher up elistist types-which I believe he was or became.

Thank you for you posts and thoughts everyone. Before I make up my mind on him and his UFO beliefs, I will do a not more research on him.

For him to keep an positive factual info back -about UFO/Aliens I think would go against science and I don't think that was his goal. I mean how much $$$ could it take to keep the UFO ideas away from the public mainstream?

[edit on 5/9/2010 by anon72]

Here's an interesting article written by Carl Sagan in 1962 where he speculates about the 'strong probability' of the Earth being visited by ETs every few thousand years.

Prof Says Beings From Outer Space Have Visited Earth
Associated Press, November 26, 1962

LOS ANGELES. (AP) - Some of the best scientific minds in the country were stumped when a slender, dark-haired young man chalked on the blackboard this equation:

N equals R FP NE FL FI FC L.

The speaker was Dr. Carl Sagan, a 28 year-old assistant professor of astronomy at Harvard University.

His audience consisted of several hundred members of the American Rocket Society, gathered for his luncheon address.

The equation was his way of expressing the mathematical probability that intelligent beings from outer space have visited earth.

Sagan soberly explained that in his equation N Stands for the number of advanced technical civilizations in the universe possessing the capability of interstellar communication.

R is the mean rate of star formation averaged over the lifetime of the galaxy.

FP is the fraction of stars with planetary systems.

NE is the mean number of planets in each system with environments favorable for the origin of life.

FL is the fraction of such planets on which life does develop.

FI is the fraction of such inhabited planets on which intelligent life with manipulative abilities rises during the lifetime of the local sun.

FC is the fraction of planets populated by intelligent beings on which advanced technical civilizations rises.

And L is the lifetime of this technical civilization.

Sagan said information in his formula is based on current estimates by astronomers. In making calculations, he assigned each symbol an arbitrary numerical value.

As expressed in numbers, Sagan said, the formula means that at least 1 million of the 100 billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy have planets which have developed civilizations capable of travel between the stars.

"Let's say that each of these civilizations sends out one interstellar expedition per year," he said.

"That means that every star, such as our sun, would be visited at least once every million years. In some systems where these beings found life, they would make more frequent visits. There's a strong probability, then, that they have visited earth every few thousand years.

"It is not out of the question that artifacts of these visits still exist or even that some kind of base is maintained, possibly automatically, within the solar system, to provide continuity for successive expeditions.

"Because of weathering and the possibility of detection and interference by the inhabitants of earth it would be preferable not to erect such a base on the earth's surface. The moon seems one reasonable alternative."

"Forthcoming photographic reconnaissance of the moon from space vehicles - particularly of the back - might bear these possibilities in mind."

At a news conference Sagan predicted man himself would be capable of interstellar flight at close to the speed of light "within a century or two."

Asked if he believed in flying saucers, he said: "I do believe there are objects which have hot be identified."

Link

Stanton also makes some interesting comments about Sagan here:

Thanks for the awesome info.

Many debunker's often refer the the fact that there arent many astronomer reports. I wonder why

Originally posted by Luke Idea
Many debunker's often refer the the fact that there arent many astronomer reports. I wonder why

Luke, I think that could be a common misconception - Michael Swords has done some interesting work on the subject at the thread below:


Astronomers and UFOs.


Cheers.

Originally posted by Phage
Carl Sagan says he does not believe ET's are visiting Earth and the OP says he really didn't mean to say that. Good job of mind reading. Fits right in with this statement from Sagan.

There are individuals who very strongly want to believe that UFO's are of intelligent extraterrestrial origin. Essentially to my view, for religious motives; that is, things are so bad down here, maybe somebody from up there will come and save us from ourselves. This takes all sorts of subtle and not so subtle forms.

files.ncas.org...

In this 1966 interview he says that speculation about ETs visiting Earth is not implausible:



Starting at 2:11:

'I think that many of the stars in the sky have planetary systems.

We know enough now about the origin of life to make it appear likely that life arises naturally on the vast bulk of these planets.

It's possible but by no means certain that life on many of these planets evolves into beings which are as advanced as we, or more advanced.

And I don't see any reason why we can't imagine civilizations which are thousands or millions of years in advance of ourselves capable of technical feats that we can hardly imagine.

If you would believe, as the flying saucer cultists would have us believe that the majority of saucer reports are due to visitations, then you have a very interesting situation:

That means several spaceships are coming to the earth over interstellar distances every day....(snip)....

I think it's much more reasonable, if you want to speculate on the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence, that there are very RARE visits from extraterrestrials to the Earth. There's no evidence for this, I'm just saying that's not implausible."

He also goes on to talk about religion and UFOs.

Originally posted by richierich
Carl Sagan was also a dedicated marijuana smoker, who loved his herb.

Many times the people who know the truth cannot or will not speak out to protect their cash cows...too bad sagan cared more about money than truth...his legacy will be of a man who had a chance to really help but sold out.

Here is proof he was a stoner: From WIKIPEDIA:

Sagan was a user of marijuana. Under the pseudonym "Mr. X", he contributed an essay about smoking cannabis to the 1971 book Marihuana Reconsidered.[46][47] The essay explained that marijuana use had helped to inspire some of Sagan's works and enhance sensual and intellectual experiences. After Sagan's death, his friend Lester Grinspoon disclosed this information to Sagan's biographer, Keay Davidson. The publishing of the biography, Carl Sagan: A Life, in 1999 brought media attention to this aspect of Sagan's life.[48][49][50]


link: en.wikipedia.org...

He and his wife were very open regular contributors to NORML. This isn't really news. He wasn't an alcohol abuser or pill popper as far as I know. Everyone needs a way to escape their own reality - maybe this was it for him. Thank mother nature for that little gift. But then what does she know about human needs anyway?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


correct but he also says there is no evidence we have been visited. Sagan did not beleive we are being visted like the ufo crowd think we are.

in seti circles its not uncommon to talk about probes visiting earth or how often this might happen. Recently a russian scientists estimated (based on 50 civs in the galaxy) the last vist by an ET probe would have been during the dinosaur era.

Meh.

Paola Harris considers herself the 'Barbara Walters of Ufology.' She has been in the UFO field for quite a while and once worked with Alan Hynek to translate some of his work into Italian. She was responsible for translating Col. Corso's The Day After Roswell into Italian and also publishing another Corso title, The Dawning of a New Age, available in Italian only. She has interviewed many UFO luminaries over the years and is active in the Exopolitics movement, She teaches courses in the Exopolitics Institute's Galactic Diplomacy program and is a frequent speaker at UFO conferences.

Love this part:

Harris' journalistic style is to simply present what a person has to say without analyzing the information or vetting her sources, claiming that her in-person interviews allow her to use her intuition to tell whether her sources are credible. At a UFO conference in Atlantic City she proclaimed that "Billy Meier is the real deal" based on a visit to his ranch where she talked to him and saw about 100 photographs. Later she said she believes Meier's original contacts were real, but that a cult had built up around him and polluted the issue. She was unaware of the Meier 'dinosaur' pictures lifted from a book. She also buys off on Clifford Stone, Dr. Michael Wolfe, and Alex Collier, the contactee who has been visited by human-looking blue aliens from Andromeda. This last association earned her a stunning tirade from, of all people, Michael Horn, who says Collier is a fake. A lot of people agree with him on this one, but still, with Horn's steadfast defense of Meier, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

UFO Watchdog

Billy Meier?!

Nope, no credibility there.

Due to Sagans love of cannabis having to be a little underground, he wrote an essay about it under a pseudonym, which was not revealed until his death.

Where is his post death UFO screed?

I'm not really buying it, I think from reading his very depressing demon haunted world book (He seems so negative in that book), that he's pretty in line with many other scientists, no strong belief, but not closed minded. He seemed a little more open than some, as I know he did take part in some UFO debates, but that he:

"Knew UFOs Are Real"

Sounds a very strong claim, unless he was just referring to the fact that some things are unidentified, and was not implying aliens.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
But when you said "not based on any sort of reality", I had to come after you, because you nor I would have any idea what that "reality" actually is.

No, you did take it out of context. The claim is that Sagan was not honest about his UFO beliefs due to monetary concerns; I was showed by the time he made such comments he was already a wealthy man. Therefore, claims about his monetary concerns have no basis in reality. Those saying he was only concern about money are wrong.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by anon72


Anon72.....

Again, I just missed out on Sagan and who he was etc.

Thank you for you posts and thoughts everyone. Before I make up my mind on him and his UFO beliefs, I will do a not more research on him

I suggest that more importantly, you should consider doing more research regarding your sources.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Kind regards
Maybe…maybe not