Lucifer = Planet Venus, not Satan - PROOF

Obsessed yes. If you were correct, the planet Venus would have been flung to earth (catstrophic wouldn't you say) and the planet Venus could also sing. Also the planet Venus had hourdes of followers who ollowed it's rebellion. The planet Venus also speaks to itself. The planet Venus also has to ascend above the clouds from a lower point?
As Lucifer comes only from the Bible and there is no other reference to the name that hasn't come from the Bible you seem to be grasping at something in your imagination.
Hey, God might be the Sun???

Originally posted by undo
the serpents, the seraphim, were represented as the bright shining ones
In turn, all these symbols were reinterpreted into the night sky which included symbollic imagery of the stars and planets.

the biblical text is multilayered. one of those layers is undoubtedly astronomy-based.

Hello my Friend.

You have been studying I see. for you.

And I mean no disrespect, in saying this, since it is a NO BRAINER.

Genesis 1:1 In the Begining, GOD created the Heavens and the Earth.

It is frankly quite clear WHO's planets, stars, and constellations they are. The paganization and perversion of Venus into the sorrid beast she has become reeks of the twisting and manipulations of Satan and his minions.

Enoch 8:2 ........Barâqîjâl, (taught) astrology,
Kôkabêl the constellations,
Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds,
Araqiêl the signs of the earth,
Shamsiêl the signs of the sun,
and Sariêl the course of the moon. ..........

These are the sources of the information that is being discussed within this post. This is what the Fallen taught mankind. This is where the preversion and twisting came from. And they think they are enlightened.

As for the Lucifer matter, I spoke my peace about that earlier, offering various sources which express the matter quite clearly.

Keep up the good work Undo!!!

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Cool! I think in the Da Vinci Code they mention the Lucifer Pentagram mix up too. I will have to rewatch that.

I would like to add another word confusing.

Amen. That comes from the egytian god Amun, aka Amen.

Another interesting connection between Egypt and Hebrew is arguably one of Egypt's greatest word, "Ra". Ra is the egyptian name for "Sun-God".

Also, "Ra" in Hebrew is the word for Evil.

Is that a coincidence? Are these coincidences? Certainly the Jews don't think the sun is evil!

Egyptian God Amun: en.wikipedia.org...
Hebrew Ra: strongsnumbers.com...
Egyptian Ra: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by daggyz
As Lucifer comes only from the Bible and there is no other reference to the name that hasn't come from the Bible you seem to be grasping at something in your imagination.
Hey, God might be the Sun???

I hope you are kidding. There were books before the bible, just so you know. As for God might be the Sun... What if it is? What if the Sun is our father and the Earth is our Mother? If the Father dies, the mother will die and so will we. If we kill our mother, which we are doing, won't all her children die? Maybe the Egyptians were right?

[edit on 9-5-2010 by BeastMaster2012]

reply to post by daggyz


God is not the Sun,and I have a thread on the Holographic Universe, Space/Time & Infinity. Picture the Beyond the Hologram/school as a combo Heaven and quantum physics, and if you really ask a lot of questions some of it can be very logically, interpreted by only via, quantum physics, too. For example, in a Hologram, a laer erects the image.
The stars are those lasers, projectors for the illusion. One could consider the uiverse a giant blank digital computer screen, there is binary code, read that years ago.

Stars are the phone home to Beyond and Family our Higher Selves assisting us to get through this. Our Future Selves really, for in Infinity, Boundless and without limit, there can not merely be One, a one has limits, but rather, the Many In One, Infinite and Boundless, and we experience in this school, uniqueness, so that means the infinite roll of film stretches both ways as self.

Those who try to subdue our empowerment by saying its ego to be self are wrong. For whatever the dictionary definition is, here, we are Becoming ourselves. And time is a precept in our minds, in "No Time" we exist as our whole infinite selves in theory, though we may experience infinite numbers of self, as quantum selves, each segment of the film, this just keeps on getting more wonderful, and unusual, and definitely out of the box, but its Heaven meeting Quantum Physics.

Suns aren't Gods, God is Many In One, like Jeshua said, we are the branches of the Vine, and.....Stars are more like projectors but also sungazing is like phoning home, very good to do along with meditation to wake up and remember who you are. So you can help others get out of this school.

It has become pretty clear that many people are not getting past the pentagram and just replying. If you are doing this i urge you to read my OP.

I am NOT saying Satan doesn't exist. I don't believe it does, as in some red skinned goat horned man that is waiting for me in hell, but i am just trying to point out that LUCIFER does NOT mean the devil.

Lucifer has always been associated with Venus and Lucifer has always been feminine, not masculine. To me it seems like there are people in history trying to cover up and hide certain things in our past, especially when it comes to science and astronomy.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Yes but those two are used often throughout history as more examples and symbology for dualities. And stars are in binary systems, so our nemisis, which could be rolling around in the oort cloud as we speak, is the true opposite to the sungod, the darkstar one. Though Jeshua isn't the coding they gave him, so I don't think Lucifer is either.
Venus is truly seen as earth's twin, but noxious, in this channel/plane/dimension.

Saturn is something else. I have thought it could be a failed star, like a dwarf star that blew off matter getting trapped in our system, maybe its even what happened to tiamat. In which case it could be a tiny solar system. Perhaps it is thedark star, trapped in orbit. I don't know. But then disasters have happened in cycles, so I don't think it could be. Its sealed however.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by Unity_99]

Originally posted by Unity_99

Yes, its all in the coding. And Is Ra El, is Isis Ra And El/Saturn/Osiris. These mystery school guys have been mismanaging the show for ages, and currently do so via Rome/Jesuits/Illuminati/Zionists and Bloodlines.

I do have thoughts in respects to these ideas, but I will save them for another time.

IT was the Is Ra El matter I did wish to address, but this doesn't mean these other problems are not truly involved in the situation of confusing things to the point we see in this post.

We have this preconception instilled when considering Biblical matters that everything is Israel Centric, when it is obvious it is not, when one only looks. An example of this is in the Oracle about Egypt in Isaiah, and it is quite clear about this misgiving we have.

Isaiah 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Egypt my people
Assyria the work of my hands
Israel mine inheritance

This is but one example that "Is Ra El" is evident in scripture. Afterall, he created all these peoples, and was their first GOD, for lack of a better term, at one time.

Ciao

Shane

You know what's interesting. Aren't the 4 inner planets the only planets that could really support life?

I mean Earth obviously can. The other 3 are Mercury, Mars and Venus.

We have all seen Mars and Venus' surface and it looks like a wonderful vacation spot once you get the weather corrected.

Mercury, i just looked up, has a crap load of craters but i guess we could live on there.

But the outer planets are more gaseous. Is this because they are so far away that the sun does not "bake" them into hard surfaces?

I don't know, it seems like Mercury is a little bit of the odd planet out in the 4 systems.

It's like looking at one of those quiz, which one of these objects does not belong here? The size of Mercury is small, just like our moon?

Sorry i am just thinking out loud. I may have to look more into Immanuel Velikovsky's theories.

Also the Asteroid belt has to be a crushed planet or something. Ahh space, i love thee!

reply to post by Shane


Have you heard of the author Lawrence William Lyons? He wrote a book called The Language Crystal. I bought the book used a few years ago and at first thought the guy was a complete wacko but the more i read and research things the more he makes sense. He wrote it in the 80's around Reagen's time and is obsessed with call him the devil based on his 6 6 6 letters in his name.

Anyways, the reason i mention him is because i've been looking through the book lately and That Is-Ra-El is in the book a few times and thought i would mention it.

there's an author called Finis Dake, who wrote the book, "God's Plan for Man," many years ago now. (i think it was like early 1940s).

Anyway, in it, he has a section on what he calls THE ANGELIC DISPENSATION. He describes this as the time on Earth, when the angels were being tested to see how they would fit into the kingdom of God, which Dake describes as an universal government. He said some of the angels went to war (one third) against God and the rest of the angels (the other 2/3rds). He also mentions that the angels advanced technologically, and went out to colonize other planets and moons in our solar system. This is why many of them are associated with physical planets and moons in the earlier texts. It's entirely possible they are still maintaining strongholds in those places.

Now humans are going threw the same type of testing period, for the same reason -- to see how they will fit into God's universal kingdom. He calls this THE HUMAN DISPENSATION.

Anyway, I thought this might be relevant to the discussion.

unSpy - venus

Much of the Hebrew Bible was rewritten in Babylon, to bring out relevant issues for the Jewish exiles. This includes the book of Job. It can be understood as an allegory – Job, the suffering servant of the Lord, thus becomes a type of Israel.

In Job 2:5 the satan asks God: “Put forth Thine hand” . The hand of God is a phrase often used concerning what God did through the Angels. God agrees- ” he is in thine hand” (v.6). Thus satan’s hand is God’s hand, which is an Angel. This is proof enough that satan is not in any way against God- they work together.

If the satan refers to a righteous Angel, it is likewise easier to understand why all the problems which the satan brought are described as God bringing them (especially as Job may have conceived of God in terms of an Angel). It is also understandable why there is no rebuke of the satan at the end.

Is there a powerful person in the Universe called Satan who is the arch-enemy of God? While most Christians accept this without question, based on this passage in Job there is much room for doubt. It has been said, “If God did not chain up the roaring lion, how soon would he devour us!” Well, on second thought, maybe not. It seem more correct to say, God does both good and evil in the world and he often uses agents, somethimes those agents are men, and sometimes those agents are his angles.

The ‘Devil’ meme remains an unexamined assumption in much of Christianity, and in most societies and religions. The presence of unexamined assumptions in our lives and hearts, as well as in societies, ought to be a red flag. Why, in this age of apparently fearless examination, eager toppling of paradigms, deconstruction of just about everything, rigorous research, trashing of tradition, brutal testing of assumptions… does the Devil meme remain an unexamined assumption?

I suggest it’s because to reject that tradition of a personal Satan and get down to living out the Biblical position on the Devil demands just too much. It’s hard to accept all negative experience in life as ultimately allowed and even sent by a loving God, it’s humiliating to realize we’re only naive children, whose view of good and evil isn’t fully that of our Father; and it’s the call of a lifetime to recognize that our own personal, natural passions and desires are in fact the great Satan / adversary.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012




[edit on 9-5-2010 by wasaka]

Isaiah 14: 12-14: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

Early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. This view was popularized by John Milton in his epic “Paradise Lost” and so the term “Lucifer” became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition to this day.

First, the passage expressly refers to a “king of Babylon”, a “man” who seemed all-powerful, but who has been brought low. Second, it should be pointed out that the words ‘devil’, ’satan’ and ‘angel’ never occur in this chapter. This is the only place in Scripture where the word ‘Lucifer’ occurs. Thirdly, why is Lucifer punished for saying, “I will ascend into heaven” (v. 13), if he was already there?

It should be noted that the idea of ‘morning star’ is translated ‘Lucifer’ in the Vulgate [Latin] translation of the Bible made by Jerome. Significantly, he uses ‘Lucifer’ as a description of Christ, as the ‘morning star’ mentioned in Revelation. Indeed, some early Christians took the name ‘Lucifer’ as a ‘Christian name’ in order to identify themselves with Jesus (1). It wasn’t until Origen (200 A.D.) that the term ‘Lucifer’ took on any connotation of ‘Satan’ or a force of evil. ‘Lucifer’ in its strict meaning of ‘bearer of the light’ actually was applied in a positive sense to Christian communities, e.g. the followers of Lucifer of Cagliari were called ‘Luciferians’. As an aside, it’s worth pointing out that they were one of the groups who insisted that the devil was not a personal being and held to the original Biblical picture of sin and the devil being one and the same.

Isaiah 14 is a proverb (parable) against the king of Babylon, the star represents the king’s royal majesty. Daniel chapter 4 explains how Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, proudly surveyed the great kingdom he had built up, thinking that he had conquered other nations in his own strength, rather than recognizing that God had given him success. “Thy greatness (pride) is grown, and reacheth unto heaven” (v.22). Because of this the king was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles feathers, and his nails like birds claws (v. 33). This sudden humbling of one of the world’s most powerful men to a deranged lunatic was such a dramatic event as to call for the parable about the falling of the morning star from heaven to earth. Stars are symbolic of powerful people, e.g. Genesis 37: 9; Isaiah 13:10 (concerning the leaders of Babylon); Ezekiel 32: 7 (concerning the leaders of Egypt); Daniel 8:10, cp. v. 24. Ascending to heaven and falling from heaven are Biblical idioms often used for increasing in pride and being humbled respectively – see Job 20: 6; Jeremiah 51:53 ( about Babylon); we even find this in the New Testament, Matthew 11:23 (about Capernaum): “Thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell”(the grave).

There’s a good reason why the King of Babylon is described as “the morning star”, or Venus. The Babylonians believed that their king was the child of their gods Bel and Ishtar, both of whom were associated with the planets- they thought that their King was the planet Venus.

In conclusion, it was not until post-Biblical times that Lucifer was associated with Satan, or that Satan was thought to have been cast out of heaven before the creation of Adam and Eve, or that Satan had some connection with Adam and Eve. While they may be mainstream Christian memes today, they were not shared by the Hebrews who wrote the Bible.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


All planets and moons support life on one channel or frequency. I believe that tptb throughout history, have always been in contact with negatives not from our channel or space time frequency. Every planet in effect is on its own space/time frequency, so we don't really know anything that is out there or what things are like on another channel.
This universe is a hologram and time is perception, but related to planet. Theres even a center in our brain, which is illusionary as well, for this related to our planet. This explains in part their phasing technology too.

What do we know about anything here.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by Unity_99]

reply to post by wasaka


it's all about the context.

what separates man from god?
his conscience.

what causes his conscience to separate itself from god?
guilt.

what causes guilt?
awareness that he's not always the greatest thing since sliced bread.

who determined what he should feel guilty about?
the law. the law is the accuser. the adversary and the teacher.

so while it has taught us much about ourselves and how to treat each other amiably, it also stands in judgement of us.

scripture frequently sets this aspect up like a court of law, with a prosecuting attorney and a defense attorney, particularly in the new testament, where the long awaited defense attorney arrives in the guise of yeshua (jesus) who then must square off against the prosecuting attorney and plead our case. the impression i get is, your frame of mind, your focus, has a heck of a lot to do with it.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


No I hadn't heard of the book, but I am more than familiar with many claiming this guy or that guy is representative of Satan via a 666 enbedded codex within his Name.

Certainly, Reagan fit the bill in that respect, and the assassination attempt only added fuel to the fire, but all in all, I have no problems stating they are ALL WRONG due to one simple matter. No one today can enter the Temple, and stop the sacrafice, and claim he is god, in GOD's House.

* NOTE / DISCLAIMER *

I use these terms in a general Sense, since it is clear, GOD did not ever reside within the Temple, but it was a Dwelling place for his Ark, the Ark of the covenant, which contains a Mercy Seat, which is the place of GOD, and only GOD is to be seated there.

There is also the current lack of a Temple that causes another problem, but one that time will resolve in due course.

Hugo and a New Jerusalem?

That is why we propose this Assembly that the United Nations should leave a country that does not respect the resolutions taken by this same Assembly. Some proposals have pointed out to Jerusalem as an international city as an alternative. The proposal is generous enough to propose an answer to the current conflict affecting Palestine.

Sanhedrin and the Temple

The Sanhedrin calls upon the Jewish people to contribute towards the acquisition of materials for the purpose of rebuilding the Holy Temple; the gathering and preparation of prefabricated, disassembled portions of this building to be stored and ready for rapid assembly, in the manner of King David.

End of Disclaimer!

As for the Is Ra El matter, you will be surprised it is within many more cultures than they would wish to accept or acknowledge. Ancient Sumer, Babylon, as well as the offshoots of the Semetic, Hametic, and Japhethic peoples all would have this common premise hidden deep within their religious rites and ceremonies.

Egypt I feel is something different, since I truely believe they are part of the Original Peoples created on the 6th Day, due to the FACT, Egypt has always existed, since the dawn of recorded time. Even the Preists told Solon, their recollection of the past was as a childs, when compared to Egypts.

But as I noted earlier, all of this was lost due to the fallen, and their perversions of the Original Truth.

It is an interesting subject, although my interests dwell within the aspect that Lucifer is not Satan, nor has ever been, except through ignorance and lack of interest in studying on the part of Christains as a whole. The Scriptures and Original Texts are quite clear about this, as are most Faiths and their writings about this.

Nevertheless, it is easier to believe a lie than know a truth.

Go Figure.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


zecharia sitchin mentions data in one of his books, describing jerusalem as a very ancient place of jehovah (el=enlil.. i'll explain later). that it went back to pre-adamic times, and was originally a huge complex. a giant stone slab is there, upon which was built solomon's temple. i think he claims that the giant slab was the foundation for the original complex, and that buried under the site, that is now called temple mount, is stuff that'd shock the world if they knew it was there.

when i think about it, it makes sense in a sort of .......oh that explains it, way. why are sons of abraham all biting at the bit to have that spot.
why is it the site over which new city jerusalem will descend.
why'd they even go there in the first place, and what made them call it the land flowing with milk and honey. my gosh, if they aren't there taking care of the place, it turns into a desolate desert in short order.

there's something creepy cool about it. and it's verrrry ancient. this guy started picking up on the oddities as well. check this out

reply to post by undo


That video was pretty cool. The book has an overall great review on amazon, around 40 reviews at 4 stars. I may have to get this, sounds fascinating! I love it when authors mix in 1600's scientists with ancient events. Thanks for the lead!

I have a different perspective on what Lucifer is to what's already been posted. It's from a theosophical/esoteric point of view.

Lucifer in the esoteric teachings is the name for the great angelic Entity who embodies the human kingdom on the Soul plane. Each of us is an individualised part of this great Oversoul and Light bringer.

It's said that the fall from heaven is symbolic of the descent of the human soul into physical matter - a descent from the bliss of heaven or paradise into the imperfection of matter (or into sin - where sin really means imperfection relative to the Soul). This was a deliberate act in the plan of evolution for human life on this planet.

Therefore the Bible recounts in symbolic story form, the point in human history when Lucifer incarnated into physical bodies for the first time thus becoming individualised souls. This event is said to have happened 18.5 million years ago at the point when 'animal man' - the physical form had reached the point of development when the truly human evolution could begin.

From that point on we began the journey back to 'heaven' - incarnating over and over again until the soul perfectly expresses itself through matter. Christ, Buddha, Krishna are some examples from our humanity who have succeeded in doing this and no longer needed to reincarnate. Their service to us is in their teachings on how we can achieve the same level of enlightenment or spiritualization of matter. Though it seems the organised religions now teach us differently to what was originally intended.

[edit on (10/5/10) by xfiler]

Pentagram, pentacle, etc, etc. King Solomon had a ring given to him by the archangle Gabriel. It had a 5 sided star on it and with it he was able to harness the evil that was troubling Israel at the time. He stored them in earthen vessels in the Temple and when the Babylonians sacked the temple, they broke the vessels, thus releasing them again into the world. He used the "Angel in the Whirlwind" You freemasons out there...to lay the corner stone. Man alone could not do it.

I have studied the Bible, but even Jesus himself refers to other books and writings that are not part of Christian writings. We would be fools not to investigate. He who lacks wisdom, let him ask. It's not just going to plop into our brains. We have to work for it. Search for the truth. I do not believe for one second that anyone knows the WHOLE truth.

Those of you out there who are hating on those of us who know how to have a civilized conversation, put your pride away. You don't know it all. Neither do we. But that is why we come here. To learn from eachother. So, play nice, or get off our playground.